GUILTY UK - Helen Bailey, 51, Royston, 11 April 2016 #2

[Cherwell]

True and to be fair Helen's late husband can't defend anything she has written now. But the stuff she identified was quite shocking .

Really? Well I haven't read the whole book, but the example you gave falls a long way short of shocking me.
I don't think any of this is relevant anyway. I'm not at all comfortable with having Helen's late husband portrayed as a domestic abuser. <modsnip>

 

[Squamous]

I think it should also been borne in mind that you're only getting one side of the story.

True. And Helen can't clarify either now. Interestingly, I think she felt that the book gives a really measured account of JS and the man he was when actually it was very much about Helen's view of everything and JS remains quite a shadowy, undefined figure throughout. I do think the power gradient between the 40-something boss and 23 year old temp is pretty steep though and Helen would have been looking for something different going forward. No-one could have guessed the end of her story though.

 

[Joely 123]

I think they probably crashed through it, I doubt it would take the weight of a person, the police officer could break it up with a hoe.

I did wonder if Boris may not have been submerged though as it sounds like his body was much more decomposed than Helen's.

And in the PM report, it was said it was more difficult to analyse Boris because of 'digestion'. This made me, heartbreakingly, wonder if Boris drowned. Still agony to think of that as possible.

 

[DollyDiamond]

I don't know if I speak for anyone else but I know know more than I ever desired to know about septic tanks and cesspits. It really is unutterably vile that someone saw fit to treat the bodies of Helen and Boris in that way.

My thoughts entirely - bad to enough to kill but then to treat someone's body with such utter contempt says a great deal about the perpetrator.

 

[Joely 123]

But how did he access her account? Surely she had a different password to that?

It may be possible that he had Helen's Bank Account password. In her book, she writes about the frustrations in NOT having any of JS's passwords when trying to deal with affairs after the tragedy.

 

[Squamous]

It may be possible that he had Helen's Bank Account password. In her book, she writes about the frustrations in NOT having any of JS's passwords when trying to deal with affairs after the tragedy.

Yes, that's true, I can imagine she would keep them written down for IS to access if he needed to after her experience when JS died.

 

[Joely 123]

I don't know if I speak for anyone else but I know know more than I ever desired to know about septic tanks and cesspits. It really is unutterably vile that someone saw fit to treat the bodies of Helen and Boris in that way.

It must be a terrible aspect of Helen's murder for her family. As you say, Squamous, the vileness, the disgusting lack of 'respect' for their beautiful Helen .. and Helen's most treasured love, Boris. I can't get beyond how debase this is.

 

[hunkerdown]

Alyce I am sure you wrote somewhere that you know this area of Cambs. or had driven past the Royston Home. I had a look at Ian's old home that he shared with Diane and I noticed that that was a converted barn. I couldn't find the age but I did idly wonder if that was not on mains sewage.

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-23400771.html

Ultimately it doesn't matter but it had never occurred to me as a place to hide a body and it's such an odd thing for the old owner to say about H.Lodge IF it was likely to be ever drained. (Appreciate all systems are different and no idea how long it takes for an inactive system to clear of crust. Could be decades.)

I'm only idly wondering as there was no hearing today so there's nothing new today.... so what might he be happy to leave the following occupants to deal with- whoever they may be - after he himself had died.

Pretty sure that wasn't his old house, from photographs I've seen on Facebook, his house looked like a standard 3 or 4 bed bungalow...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MillyM]

Been so busy haven't had a chance to really catch up today.

What's all this mean, Alyce? All his case? Is it to do with Joe and Nick?! What do Special Ops do?

Tomorrow's listing


The Crown Court at St Albans
Daily List for Wednesday 25 January 2017 at BRICKET ROAD ST ALBANS


Court 1 - sitting at 10:00 AM

HIS HONOUR JUDGE BRIGHT QC

For Mention
U20170030 PRODUCTION ORDER (PR)


Link to Ersou South
U20170031 PRODUCTION ORDER X 2 (KP)


Link to Police HQ Welwyn Garden City

Trial (Part Heard)
T20167121 STEWART Ian
41E12190616
PAPER FILE

Published: 24 January 2017 at 16:04



ERSOU South is Eastern Region Special Operations Unit, covering Hertfordshire, Bedfordshire, Cambridge and Essex.

 

[peter010101]

I'd be interested to know how the police's view developed during the time between their first involvement and July 11 (arrest on suspicion). I think of the case as a whole in terms of these components:

1. IS: suspicious actions/non-actions, inconsistent assertions, strange manner.
2. Body location.
3. Zopiclone.
4. Joe&Nick story.

Arresting him on suspicion they had only #1 to go on, and so ...

• either they considered #1 might suffice (which seems very unlikely);
• or they knew something we don't know, or don't know that they knew;
• or making him an official suspect was an essential for taking further steps.

 

[DollyDiamond]

True. And Helen can't clarify either now. Interestingly, I think she felt that the book gives a really measured account of JS and the man he was when actually it was very much about Helen's view of everything and JS remains quite a shadowy, undefined figure throughout. I do think the power gradient between the 40-something boss and 23 year old temp is pretty steep though and Helen would have been looking for something different going forward. No-one could have guessed the end of her story though.

I think the nature of Helen's previous relationship with JS may be significant in explaining why she took up with IS. Certainly for me the charms of IS are unfathomable: physically unattractive (sorry to be blunt but let's call an overweight, chinless, round-shouldered, rapidly aging man with bad teeth what he is), with the sort of voice that would deter me from meeting him if we were to have a pre-date phone chat, (yes, voices are important!) and no notable career or financial success. Let's be honest here, the attributes most women look for in a long term partner were lacking in IS. But his appeal for Helen could well have been that he WASN'T the Alpha male type her late husband most certainly was. The age difference between her and her late husband plus disparities in their histories and personality traits, suggest he dominated her. Her therapy sessions brought her to recognise this and, perhaps either consciously or subsconsciously, avoid it in a new partner. What would she want with a dominant Alpha male after all - she was wealthy and successful, she didn't need a man in any practical sense and didn't need to be bossed around by one! IS was not her intellectual equal and no doubt gave the impression of being something of a lovable harmless teddy bear, malleable and easy going. If only that had been his true nature.

As human beings we have a compulsion to learn from our mistakes - forewarned is forearmed - that's why so many of us are fascinated by true crime I suspect, we hope to learn lessons and avoid ever becoming a victim ourselves. For me the question of Helen's romantic relationships is central to all this. I guess as a single, middle aged woman, I have a personal motive in getting to grips with it all. But as you rightly say the bottom line is, while she could have decided IS was not the man for her, it was highly unlikely she would ever have believed him capable of killing Boris, let alone killing her. Her poor family must be torturing themselves endlessly with 'if only's', wishing Helen had ended the relationship and (as her poor mother hinted in her evidence), wishing they had realised the terrible danger she was in.

 

[Interested Bystander]

Special Ops do drugs and fraud, stolen property, gun crime, crimes against children. A bit of everything I think. This is their website.

http://www.ersourocu.org.uk/

I wonder if it is to do with IS fraudulently accessing HB's money.

 

[Florrie]

I'd be interested to know how the police's view developed during the time between their first involvement and July 11 (arrest on suspicion). I think of the case as a whole in terms of these components:

1. IS: suspicious actions/non-actions, inconsistent assertions, strange manner.
2. Body location.
3. Zopiclone.
4. Joe&Nick story.

Arresting him on suspicion they had only #1 to go on, and so ...

• either they considered #1 might suffice (which seems very unlikely);
• or they knew something we don't know, or don't know that they knew;
• or making him an official suspect was an essential for taking further steps.

Except that the Joe and Nick story seems to have come much later. I think in December 2016 and told to Oliver his son. I would imagine he must have said the same to the police at some point and that may have been earlier in his police involvement.

I am still wondering if he will attempt to take the stand and use this story.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Alyce]

Yes, that's true, I can imagine she would keep them written down for IS to access if he needed to after her experience when JS died.

He had all her email passwords and FB..according to the police, who said it saved them time.

However, this is probably where the fraud charge comes in, bcos he did not have the right to access her account, even if he has the password.

 

[Alyce]

Been so busy haven't had a chance to really catch up today.

What's all this mean, Alyce? All his case? Is it to do with Joe and Nick?! What do Special Ops do?

Lol Milly, that made me chuckle. You know what those court serve docs are like, they are not really laid out very clearly. Hopefully all will be revealed tomorrow

 

[MillyM]

Lol Milly, that made me chuckle. You know what those court serve docs are like, they are not really laid out very clearly. Hopefully all will be revealed tomorrow

Is it not different cases, and just the WGC link that is attached to his case?

Whether Joe and Nick, or not, IS said Joe had been 'dealt with'. If they are real, I am curious as to who dealt with him, by what means, and when, and how he came to have that information? It's all sounding very fictional and underworld when it comes to that side.

 

[Joely 123]

I think it should also been borne in mind that you're only getting one side of the story.

I happened to be re-reading 'A Final Reassurance' in Helen's Book this afternoon. And shall re-type this section.

I have never had any doubt that JS would approve of my publishing this account of my grief, despite its deeply personal nature. I have tried to be as accurate as my memory and my diaries permit, but if JS took a day-return trip from Heaven to Hertfordshire to comment on the narrative, I suspect he would vehemently dispute my recollection of some of the events during the 24 years we knew each other. I hope feel, on balance, that the book haas reflected him in death as he was in life: dignified, decent and gracious, a man with a kind, open heart and an infuriatingly stubborn mind.
**
Just want to add that I believe there can be anger within the grieving that opens many boxes of life lived with a beloved - and sometimes our questioning process seems harsh but it is all part of the tapestry of reflection.

 

[Interested Bystander]

Pretty sure that wasn't his old house, from photographs I've seen on Facebook, his house looked like a standard 3 or 4 bed bungalow...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't do Facebook but is this what you see? This is no. 5 ?

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/house-pr...l?prop=30098775&sale=73500213&country=england

 

[MillyM]

Special Ops do drugs and fraud, stolen property, gun crime, crimes against children. A bit of everything I think. This is their website.

http://www.ersourocu.org.uk/

I wonder if it is to do with IS fraudulently accessing HB's money.

But are those two cases and IS's all related on the listing, or just two randoms being heard before IS case tomorrow?

 

[Alyce]

Except that the Joe and Nick story seems to have come much later. I think in December 2016 and told to Oliver his son. I would imagine he must have said the same to the police at some point and that may have been earlier in his police involvement.

I am still wondering if he will attempt to take the stand and use this story.

As far as I remember it from the evidence, the dynamic duo of Joe and Nick were only introduced officially by IS on December 16, 2016 during his last pre trial hearing.
He had however, tried the story out on his younger son a bit earlier in December.