GUILTY UK - Helen Bailey, 51, Royston, 11 April 2016 #2

[Alyce]

I am probably being overly picky on timings here but this doesnt sound right

From ISs police interview

I phoned up and rearranged my doctor's appointment. Helen said 'If possible, make it this afternoon and then you can take stuff to the solicitors at the same time'.

In order to get to the 11.30am Surgery appointment, IS had to leave the house by 11.15am.
So, if Helen asked him to change the appointment, she must have done so before 11.15am, otherwise he would be out the door and gone.
But he doesn't call the Surgery until 11.33am...are we supposed to believe it took 15 minutes or more of discussion before he made the call ?
Also, why did Helen need IS to change to an afternoon appointment, just so he could then go to the solicitors.
We know that IS Surgery appointment was a 15 minute visit, the journey time back from Surgery to the Solicitors would be 15 - 20 minutes tops. He could have been at the solicitors by midday or soon after. Plenty of time to drop off papers before lunch ( if they close for lunch even ? )

I know it's all fabricated anyway, but just shows IS in another muddle about the timeline.


http://www.hertfordshiremercury.co....ng-the-trial/story-30074568-detail/story.html

 

[Alyce]

A few bits we didnt hear from Eileen Bailey's evidence yesterday

When Mr Trimmer asked if she knew what her daughter had to eat that day, Mrs Bailey said Mr Stewart made her poached eggs. But then under cross examination from defence solicitor Simon Russell Flint, she said that her daughter usually woke up around 8.30am and Ian Stewart didn’t wake up until around 10.30am, so that may not have been the case.

“What you were told was that she liked to cook herself eggs as soon as she woke up,” Mr Russell-Flint said.

“She would get up when living with Ian and cook herself poached or scrambled eggs.”

In response, Mrs Bailey said: “That must be so, I didn’t discuss that with her.”

She also said that her daughter had confided in her about experiencing dizziness and tiredness, and not recognising her own hands – something which happened previously when her late husband John Sinfield died.





http://www.royston-crow.co.uk/news/...ng_evidence_in_royston_murder_trial_1_4860046

 

[Squamous]

Did IS completely forget about telling the doctors about "car trouble". That doesn't fit in with anything, does it?

 

[Cherwell]

Did IS completely forget about telling the doctors about "car trouble". That doesn't fit in with anything, does it?

No, but I suppose it doesn't prove anything. It's the kind of fake excuse I bet many of us have used to explain a delay or cancellation.

 

[Squamous]

True, I suppose I'm just thinking that if he had remembered then he would have built it into his story.

 

[Alyce]

So, in all he had three excuses.

1.Car trouble - I agree, that's the kind of white lie/excuse that many of us might use.

2. Helen wanting him to take papers to the solicitors -which for some reason had to be later in the day. I would be generous and say that might have been because she had not finished signing or getting them ready. But, that doesnt seem to be the case, from later evidence, where he says he picked up the papers from his desk - not Helen's - which indicates to me that they were ready to go.

3. Helen being traumatised from her earlier car journey and IS thinking he had to stay with her to calm her down

 

[cottonweaver]

I am probably being overly picky on timings here but this doesnt sound right

From ISs police interview

I phoned up and rearranged my doctor's appointment. Helen said 'If possible, make it this afternoon and then you can take stuff to the solicitors at the same time'.

In order to get to the 11.30am Surgery appointment, IS had to leave the house by 11.15am.
So, if Helen asked him to change the appointment, she must have done so before 11.15am, otherwise he would be out the door and gone.
But he doesn't call the Surgery until 11.33am...are we supposed to believe it took 15 minutes or more of discussion before he made the call ?
Also, why did Helen need IS to change to an afternoon appointment, just so he could then go to the solicitors.
We know that IS Surgery appointment was a 15 minute visit, the journey time back from Surgery to the Solicitors would be 15 - 20 minutes tops. He could have been at the solicitors by midday or soon after. Plenty of time to drop off papers before lunch ( if they close for lunch even ? )

I know it's all fabricated anyway, but just shows IS in another muddle about the timeline.


http://www.hertfordshiremercury.co....ng-the-trial/story-30074568-detail/story.html

Whilst we're waiting for news....re. your bold

It's interesting to me in view of the recent discussion here re. degree of calculation and planning that he didn't seem to sit down and work out his own bogus timeline properly considering he had 3 months or so ( April 11- July) to do so.

I know I said pre-trial that it has shades of the Sadie Hartley killers ( think they can outsmart but make silly mistakes) but he really has had so much time before and after the killing to do this and can assume he has an eye for detail and can be meticulous if we look at the mechanisms that he produced.

We can prob all agree that he isn't stupid either ......

Apparently he was in this for the long haul, financially too, so does the muddling go to panic and having to move the killing date forward or

Thinking aloud here but I still haven't found out , from last year, if this was an active septic tank and he may have never needed it emptied and I'll never know if he planned to move the remains a few years down the line or simply live at the house until he died.

Anyway, I hope we'll hear more about his past when the trial reaches it's conclusion.

 

[Squamous]

In a similar train of thought, I keep going back to that Monday evening. To me, he has two possible scenarios, having seen the "note" he was a bit taken aback but unsurprised and was confident Helen was safely tucked up at Broadstairs having a breather; or that he felt it was out of character and was a bit worried and thought she might be back when he got home. He seems to have gone for a bit of both though - he bought Chinese and thought she might like some if she was in (although it would seem his son had no idea of this so it's unlikely he bought HB's favourite or a large quantity or anything), yet didn't look for her or mention her absence to his son when he got in, leaving him assuming that Helen had had an early night.

I can't recall when her brother realised she wasn't at home? I think I'm right in saying that IS didn't tell anyone, he waited for people to ask where she was?

 

[cottonweaver]

also does anyone recall seeing whether the sports car at the premises was the same red MG purchased by him soon after his first wife's death. ( it was in police evidence about a covered sports car, think outside the garage.)

ETA. It doesn't matter as I'm not sure it was bought soon after his wife died anyway.

 

[pinklilies]

In a similar train of thought, I keep going back to that Monday evening. To me, he has two possible scenarios, having seen the "note" he was a bit taken aback but unsurprised and was confident Helen was safely tucked up at Broadstairs having a breather; or that he felt it was out of character and was a bit worried and thought she might be back when he got home. He seems to have gone for a bit of both though - he bought Chinese and thought she might like some if she was in (although it would seem his son had no idea of this so it's unlikely he bought HB's favourite or a large quantity or anything), yet didn't look for her or mention her absence to his son when he got in, leaving him assuming that Helen had had an early night.

I can't recall when her brother realised she wasn't at home? I think I'm right in saying that IS didn't tell anyone, he waited for people to ask where she was?

That's correct. Helens friend Tracey, contacted her brothers partner as she couldn't get hold of her. I think this was Wednesday. Her brothers partner then contacted her brother to let him know Tracey couldn't get a hold of Helen. Her brother tried himself to contact helen. Having no luck, he contacted IS who told him she'd gone to broadstairs. Her brother went to broadstairs to look for her on Thursday. I think this is all correct as we know it. I have wondered why Tracey didn't contact IS first, or maybe she did but we haven't been made aware.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Squamous]

Interesting. I guess Helen's brother's partner is easy to contact as he's a vicar, good job really or things might have taken even longer.

It would be interesting to know if Tracey went to Ian first and if not, why.

I think IS can't really justify why he wouldn't immediately contact Helen's brother or best friends after seeing the note.

 

[Alyce]

In a similar train of thought, I keep going back to that Monday evening. To me, he has two possible scenarios, having seen the "note" he was a bit taken aback but unsurprised and was confident Helen was safely tucked up at Broadstairs having a breather; or that he felt it was out of character and was a bit worried and thought she might be back when he got home. He seems to have gone for a bit of both though - he bought Chinese and thought she might like some if she was in (although it would seem his son had no idea of this so it's unlikely he bought HB's favourite or a large quantity or anything), yet didn't look for her or mention her absence to his son when he got in, leaving him assuming that Helen had had an early night.

I can't recall when her brother realised she wasn't at home? I think I'm right in saying that IS didn't tell anyone, he waited for people to ask where she was?

You are spot on, he didnt tell anyone.

Helen's good friend,Tracey, called John Bailey on Wednesday April 13 when she had had no response to calls and texts that she had been sending to Helen since Monday circa 12.15 hrs.
( Interesting to me that she called John and not IS ).
John then called IS. This pushed IS into having to speak to others. Although who he spoke with, we dont know other than, on the call to the police he says he has spoken with 4 people, John, two friends and Helen's counsellor. So he doesnt exactly look like he did a big ring round, or even a FB post.

 

[Legally Bland]

I may have missed this, but I can't remember it being discussed. I meant to comment at the time, but was too busy trying to keep up.

Am I alone in thinking that IS was possibly going to use a forged note from Helen?

Post from Alyce in thread #1

“Dad had been saying he wanted to go down to Broadstairs and look for Helen himself, just in case there was something someone else might not have noticed. A note at the house said ‘Gone to Broadstairs. Ring me. Love you xx’ I thought that was Helen’s scrawling writing, it turns out this was a note Dad had written in case Helen came back while he was in Broadstairs.”

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news...83?98797?98098

If so, I think the change of plan may have been because of JB getting in touch.

 

[Alyce]

also does anyone recall seeing whether the sports car at the premises was the same red MG purchased by him soon after his first wife's death. ( it was in police evidence about a covered sports car, think outside the garage.)

I think there is only one sports car, the MG. Police said it was parked in front of Helen's fiat and the Zafira ( one of the sons car ) and had a blanket over it. It is SORN so would make sense it's in the garage, although not why it would be parked in front of the other cars ? Maybe that's just me reading too much into the description. It was probably in front of the Fiat which Helen didnt seem to use.

 

[Cherwell]

I think IS can't really justify why he wouldn't immediately contact Helen's brother or best friends after seeing the note.

The note.

The note that he said he found on her desk/his desk/in the hall.

The note that could never have existed!

Am I alone in thinking that IS was possibly going to use a forged note from Helen?

No, you certainly are not alone there !

 

[Alyce]

I may have missed this, but I can't remember it being discussed. I meant to comment at the time, but was too busy trying to keep up.

Am I alone in thinking that IS was possibly going to use a forged note from Helen?



If so, I think the change of plan may have been because of JB getting in touch.

I wonder........ if the son thought it was Helen, then either they have remarkably similar handwriting styles, or it was a try out by IS. Which he later discarded - perhaps thought it would not fool everybody and, as you say, once JB had been in touch, so quickly, IS got the first inkling that this was not going to be as simple as he thought..

Also, one of the sons talked about IS showing him a Christmas card, from Helen to IS.
The inscription said something along the lines of to my fiance at Christmas.
If they were keeping the engagement a secret, then obviously this card would have had to be hidden away in their bedroom or similar. Not impossible to believe that happened but a bit strange overall. Why bother to write out a card which has to be kept hidden.

 

[Alyce]

The note.

The note that he said he found on her desk/his desk/in the hall.

The note that could never have existed!



No, you certainly are not alone there !

I bet, with hindsight, he wishes he had never created that note....

 

[LozDa]

Whilst we're waiting for news....re. your bold

It's interesting to me in view of the recent discussion here re. degree of calculation and planning that he didn't seem to sit down and work out his own bogus timeline properly considering he had 3 months or so ( April 11- July) to do so.

I know I said pre-trial that it has shades of the Sadie Hartley killers ( think they can outsmart but make silly mistakes) but he really has had so much time before and after the killing to do this and can assume he has an eye for detail and can be meticulous if we look at the mechanisms that he produced.

We can prob all agree that he isn't stupid either ......

Apparently he was in this for the long haul, financially too, so does the muddling go to panic and having to move the killing date forward or

Thinking aloud here but I still haven't found out , from last year, if this was an active septic tank and he may have never needed it emptied and I'll never know if he planned to move the remains a few years down the line or simply live at the house until he died.

Anyway, I hope we'll hear more about his past when the trial reaches it's conclusion.

BBM I guess the reason we are seeing so many flaws in his story though is that all those mistakes he made were because there was always the intention that Helen was never found. I believe he thought there would be a high level of decomposition very quickly and that eventually there would be no trace. Particularly as more time was passing...

The rest of everything was biding time and, when Helen's body was found, it was a panicked response to the obvious having been exposed.

I actually think that if this had gone to trial without Helen's body having been found, there would be enough reasonable doubt that he probably would have got away with it. Thank god they found the cesspit!

Joe and Nick seem like a last ditch attempt and, actually, I think his defence team are doing a very good job with what they have... they're raising questions that, even I, 100% convinced of his guilt, am thinking 'hmmm, what happened there then?'

There are too many mistakes... but I just think it's because he wasn't expecting her to be found.

 

[Squamous]

The note.

The note that he said he found on her desk/his desk/in the hall.

The note that could never have existed!

That's the one. The one where he can't remember what paper it was written on, nor the exact wording, and must have accidentally taken to the dump but that was DEFINITELY in Helen's writing.

My point is though, if he wants to make the note real then he needs to explain a "real" reaction to it, which I would suggest putting it in the bin and not speaking to anyone about it, is not.

There was indeed also the note one son thought was from Helen but turned out to be from IS to Helen in case she turned up while he was gone. I don't think we've had the full story on who realised that it was IS' writing...

 

[Squamous]

I wonder........ if the son thought it was Helen, then either they have remarkably similar handwriting styles, or it was a try out by IS. Which he later discarded - perhaps thought it would not fool everybody and, as you say, once JB had been in touch, so quickly, IS got the first inkling that this was not going to be as simple as he thought..

Also, one of the sons talked about IS showing him a Christmas card, from Helen to IS.
The inscription said something along the lines of to my fiance at Christmas.
If they were keeping the engagement a secret, then obviously this card would have had to be hidden away in their bedroom or similar. Not impossible to believe that happened but a bit strange overall. Why bother to write out a card which has to be kept hidden.

Wasn't it the police who found those cards? They were in the bedroom I believe.