GUILTY UK - Helen Bailey, 51, Royston, 11 April 2016 #2

[DollyDiamond]

LOL I think that's how the mothers of most teenagers/early 20s sons feel. Probably harder for a step parent to adapt to that overnight.

Yes, I'm not really criticising IS' sons, it's more an observation of what I see as the one-way nature of Helen's life with this ready made family. She seems to be the giver here - buying the big house that presumably IS was so keen on in his home town rather than her beloved London, allowing his grown up sons to live with them (rent free?), cooking for them and tolerating their guests etc. It's one thing to be tolerant of your own grown up children and to indulge them but I think its something else entirely to be so accommodating to the adult children of a new partner. I'm sure Helen had her faults but she was clearly very generous to this family. And she paid with her life - sickening!

 

[Alyce]

Pc Hills statement continued

“We searched a drain cover near where the jeep was moved. The drain inside was an open hole with a narrow pipe.

“I was aware there was a septic tank on the other side of the garage which I assumed this had led to.

“There was a second drain cover. This cover looked a lot older and was difficult to lift. The dog searched while the cover was in place, with no indications. “Bits of wood appeared to be acting as a wench on another more solid cover.

“There was a lot of old debris under this first cover, including dust, dirt and cobwebs.

“The under cover was also difficult to move. The dog searched over the second cover and made no indication.

“Aware the sewage system was due to be searched under a different task, the cover was replaced.”

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/new...murder-trial-week-12503618?service=responsive


so does this mean that IS did not access the septic tank via that second drain cover as it is being referred to ?
Could he have used the other one, which was easier to open ?

and, it's a bit confusing ( to me ! ) to follow from this limited feed, but it does seem that the police officer is saying that the cover was lifted........, which would dispel the argument about it being too heavy for one person to move.

 

[mrazda71]

Yes I think it speaks volumes about Helen that she remained on such good terms with her stepdaughter after the death of JS. One did not get the impression IS' sons were especially fond of her when they gave evidence (one of them apparently did not really notice that she and Boris were absent when he returned home on the night of her murder after bowling, and sat and ate a takeaway with his father without enquiring as to her whereabouts!). Perhaps I am being unfair, but I was left with the feeling she was the provider of a comfortable house and home cooked meals but was somewhat taken for granted by IS' sons, as they came and went to cadets, bowling, had girlfriends to stay etc.

I think that's a bit unfair, they were only seeming to do what the very vast majority of young people do in their own home. I've heard nothing to suggest she was treated any differently to any other parent.

And ... they're not on trial.

 

[Alyce]

Court takes a short break

There will now be a break until 3.25pm.


which means it's over now by the time I post this !!

 

[Squamous]

I'm very confused by this multiple drain/pipe business! I'm guessing the first drain "narrow pipe" wouldn't be big enough for disposing of anything.

 

[SiSi]

As Alyce has indicated, it may be that IS used the obvious manhole in the grass behind the garage . . . .

This would make sense of the thick crust in the "hidden" cesspit/well beneath the garage floor . . . .

 

[DollyDiamond]

It's so utterly obvious that Ian is guilty that it's hardly worth the effort that typing takes to go over the details that no one believes, like the note, the concern etc

I found it quite touching that Ian showed emotion when his wife's ashes were mentioned ... I'm fascinated by who Ian the person is, who he once was and how he became the man who murdered his fiance and thought he could get away with it.

I agree - I think it is fascinating to try to comprehend the workings of a cold blooded killer's mind. If you are not so inclined yourself, it is impossible to empathise or to understand what on earth possessed him to embark on such a vile course of action. An impulsive crime of passion is one thing - this is the very opposite, a crime of cold, dispassionate motive, planned over God knows how long but certainly many months. Even acknowledging that his cruelty is hard to understand, I am equally baffled he believed he would get away with it. Most people discount murder as a solution to a problem because they are deterred by fear of a long prison sentence! Perhaps he felt so safe, secure and superior living in that fabulous mansion, he really deluded himself he was beyond the long arm of the law? I am also convinced he must have got away with something fairy major before that gave him an inflated notion of invincibility.

 

[Alyce]

I'm very confused by this multiple drain/pipe business! I'm guessing the first drain "narrow pipe" wouldn't be big enough for disposing of anything.

Yep, I just added a bit more comment under that feed. I wish it was clearer. But it did sound as though the main manhole cover was lifted by the police on that first search day, because the police officer says that it was then replaced - because the sewage system was due to be searched on another task list.
If so, this would surely throw out the argument about it being too heavy for one person to move


eta see Sisi's post 826 - he could have used the other manhole cover,the one in the garden, which had clearly been lifted recently, as indicated by the grass inside the cover.


from the evidence
While searching the rear garden my colleague located a manhole cover to the rear of the garage.

“I noticed that grass was trapped under the lid, having opened it I could see fresh grass had been trapped under the lid, suggesting that it had been recently lifted.

 

[ZaZara]

Pc Hills statement continued

“We searched a drain cover near where the jeep was moved. The drain inside was an open hole with a narrow pipe.

“I was aware there was a septic tank on the other side of the garage which I assumed this had led to.

“There was a second drain cover. This cover looked a lot older and was difficult to lift. The dog searched while the cover was in place, with no indications. “Bits of wood appeared to be acting as a wench on another more solid cover.

“There was a lot of old debris under this first cover, including dust, dirt and cobwebs.

“The under cover was also difficult to move. The dog searched over the second cover and made no indication.

“Aware the sewage system was due to be searched under a different task, the cover was replaced.”

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/new...murder-trial-week-12503618?service=responsive


so does this mean that IS did not access the septic tank via that second drain cover as it is being referred to ?
Could he have used the other one, which was easier to open ?

BBM


Wench must be a typo....??? I assume they are referring to winch.

So there were two covers. Time enough to have second thoughts if this was all a sad mistake. Plus another indication that points to careful preparation.

IMHO the dog not reacting indicates that HB and Boris were hidden there almost immediately after death.

 

[DollyDiamond]

11:29
Further calls with Stewart

“I came back to work on May 13.

“He called me on that day, he said he was now back in Hertfordshire, he said he came very close to killing himself while he was there but his father had been very supportive and he was now back tidying up personal affairs - he said he was feeling better in himself.

“He was feeling confused and unable to make decisions. He told me he had declined a police interview because he thought it would be too stressful.

“He asked if he could provide my contact details to the police.

“He said he wasn’t sleeping well and was having thoughts of self harm.” On June 3 Sarah said she had some missed calls but then spoke to Stewart again.

“On this occasion he told me he had pre-existing flights booked to fly to Palma, Spain on June 12. He asked if I thought he should go, but I felt that wasn’t my decision to make.

“He sounded more jovial on this day than previously. He was asking if he could still call me for support, and I said yes.

“My last contact with him was on July 4 - I had a message to call him. He’d been asked to get in touch when he came back off holiday and so he did.

“He said he’d been on holiday, he said it felt strangely difficult but it was OK.

“He then said he didn’t feel there was now any ongoing role for us, and he was happy to be discharged. “I haven’t had any dealings with him since then.”

Goodness doesn't he think he's clever - he asks if he can give her contact details to police, believing he can hide behind nursey's skirts should those nasty police officers want to interview him again!

 

[jessie]

I'm very confused by this multiple drain/pipe business! I'm guessing the first drain "narrow pipe" wouldn't be big enough for disposing of anything.

I'm following, but as a lurker apart from the odd question. I think as HB and Boris were discovered in the cess pit more detail on the cover which had been lifted (grass trapped underneath statement by police officer) and the 'other' cover in the garage which had cobwebs and dust under is needed.
Are we still waiting on the sewage clearing company's statements/evidence? I am confused.

 

[pinklilies]

Possibly wrench.

I'm actually trying to reply to ZaZara but having great difficulty...

 

[cottonweaver]

Goodness doesn't he think he's clever - he asks if he can give her contact details to police, believing he can hide behind nursey's skirts should those nasty police officers want to interview him again!

Indeed Dolly, and asking the psych nurse for her professional recs on his palma jolly! Hoping she would say yes. Sneaky.

 

[Legally Bland]

Just bringing this back up. I don't see how the two cess pits connecting, hopefully will become clearer.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...5million-home-lived-fianc-accused-murder.html

 

[Alyce]

New witness: Phillip Underdown, who emptied the septic tank at the Royston house before the alleged murder date

The court is now resuming after that short break. The next witness is Phillip Underdown, who works driving a lorry for environmental waste disposal. A statement made in November 2016 said he had been working there for three years.

Giving evidence in the witness box, Mr Underdown said: “Work involves emptying septic tanks and cesspits.

“I’ve been to the house in Baldock Road, Royston twice while working for this company.

“On the first occasion I met the owners there - they were a man and a woman. They had a dog too.

“I first went early in 2014, and then secondly I went on April 2, 2015.

“The first visit involved a drain of 1,000 gallons, and on the second visit was probably more, probably 2,000 gallons.”


http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/new...murder-trial-week-12503618?service=responsive

 

[DollyDiamond]

11:39
'Stewart did not want to give up his mobile'

“The photographers were leaving, and after that Stewart told my colleague that he believed Helen was in the area of Broadstairs. “He said she thought Helen would be in a rental cottage ‘somewhere’ in Broadstairs, as this was the area she likes.

“As we were leaving a health professional turned up.

“He aired concern about handing over his phone, saying this was his only lifeline to Helen and his mental support team.

“He didn’t want to give up his mobile phone at that stage.”

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/incoming/helen-bailey-murder-trial-week-12503618

A great shame the police were unable to seize that mobile phone from him - presumably they had no right to at this stage. It must have had incriminating evidence on it for him to refuse to hand it over and then 'lose' it. Online orders for sleeping tablets perhaps and clues relating to his financial motive.

 

[Alyce]

I had a discussion with the man at the Royston house about how septic tanks work'

In Mr Underdown’s notes, he wrote that there was a ‘very large brick well for tank, took 1,000 [gallons] only, very thick in the bottom, possibly 2,000 gallon tank’.

He added: “To have a brick well is unusual. I took the waste on that occasion to Cambridge Anglia Water Treatment Works.

“The septic tank that I recall was located in the garage, near the right hand garage door, two to three metres inside.

“The lid of the cesspit is a snug fit, you will need tools to lift it and ease it off the ground - you can’t get your fingers underneath it.

“When this lid sits there for a long while it can form a seal.

“If the tank had sat there undisturbed for a while it wouldn’t be so easy to get up.

“I had a discussion with the man at the Royston house about how septic tanks work.”


http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/new...murder-trial-week-12503618?service=responsive



my comment - that last line - oh dear !!

 

[cottonweaver]

“I first went early in 2014, and then secondly I went on April 2, 2015.

Very surprised at this frequency! And the last time only a week before Helen dies!


Alyce - indeed - your comment. This is exactly why I was trying to fathom if he had past exp of septic tanks in his previous home or he'd just googled it.

 

[Alyce]

Ashish Joshi ‏@ashishskynews 9m9 minutes ago

Phillip Underdown, a lorry driver, next to give evidence. His firm empties septic tanks & cesspits. He went to Helen Bailey's house twice.

 

[Cherwell]

Pc Hills statement continued

“We searched a drain cover near where the jeep was moved. The drain inside was an open hole with a narrow pipe.

“I was aware there was a septic tank on the other side of the garage which I assumed this had led to.

“There was a second drain cover. This cover looked a lot older and was difficult to lift. The dog searched while the cover was in place, with no indications. “Bits of wood appeared to be acting as a wench on another more solid cover.

“There was a lot of old debris under this first cover, including dust, dirt and cobwebs.

“The under cover was also difficult to move. The dog searched over the second cover and made no indication.

“Aware the sewage system was due to be searched under a different task, the cover was replaced.”

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/new...murder-trial-week-12503618?service=responsive


so does this mean that IS did not access the septic tank via that second drain cover as it is being referred to ?
Could he have used the other one, which was easier to open ?

and, it's a bit confusing ( to me ! ) to follow from this limited feed, but it does seem that the police officer is saying that the cover was lifted........, which would dispel the argument about it being too heavy for one person to move.

I don't know, it seems as though there were two covers, one under the first, but this isn't clear from the photos I've seen. I imagined the top cover being like an insert into the garage floor, painted the same colour, with debris underneath, and then an inner cover. She says the inner cover was difficult to move and that the dog "searched over it", so I'm not sure that it was actually lifted then.

I don't understand "bits of wood appeared to be acting as a wench". What does she mean by a wench?