GUILTY UK - Helen Bailey, 51, Royston, 11 April 2016 #2

[Alyce]

My understanding was that there are two tanks, a main tank, and a secondary overflow tank the access to which is outside behind the garage.

Ah ha, that blows my theory then.........so we are back to him lifting the cover in the garage.

 

[Alyce]

WARNING a bit graphic here


Mr Beavis finds a body in the cesspit

Mr Beavis said he lifted the cesspit cover using a ‘T shaped key’, to hook the cover out of the hole.

“There was a normal rusted carpet of debris in the opening, but that’s what happens in cesspits.

“These things will only be emptied once every six months to a year.

“To examine it further I got a pipe from my tanker and began to poke the surface with the pipe.

“I could penetrate the surface layer, but then it was almost as though the pipe came up and hit something that was very buoyant like a soft pillow.

“I pushed into it and it bounced back, I thought there was something in the cesspit to be investigated.

“I used a garden hose to remove some of the crust. Eventually I found something which I thought looked like an arm.

“In short once that was done, I left it to the police.

“At some point I could also see stripey clothing.

“I was in a state of shock about five minutes later. I gave the hose and pipe to officers.

“I didn’t take any of the contents from the septic tank.”

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/new...murder-trial-week-12503618?service=responsive

 

[icemaiden65]

Pc Hills statement continued

“We searched a drain cover near where the jeep was moved. The drain inside was an open hole with a narrow pipe.

“I was aware there was a septic tank on the other side of the garage which I assumed this had led to.

“There was a second drain cover. This cover looked a lot older and was difficult to lift. The dog searched while the cover was in place, with no indications. “Bits of wood appeared to be acting as a wench on another more solid cover.

“There was a lot of old debris under this first cover, including dust, dirt and cobwebs.

“The under cover was also difficult to move. The dog searched over the second cover and made no indication.

“Aware the sewage system was due to be searched under a different task, the cover was replaced.”

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/new...murder-trial-week-12503618?service=responsive


so does this mean that IS did not access the septic tank via that second drain cover as it is being referred to ?
Could he have used the other one, which was easier to open ?

and, it's a bit confusing ( to me ! ) to follow from this limited feed, but it does seem that the police officer is saying that the cover was lifted........, which would dispel the argument about it being too heavy for one person to move.

OMG! That seems to be it surely? The trapped grass certainly points to the cover having been lifted in the trap behind the garage. The fact it was fresh grass perhaps points to IS having a later peek between April and July and to his horror (or not) realising that both Helen and Boris had been pushed forward towards the trap door in the garage. Or maybe he planned it that way in the first place - pop them in the easier trap door and hope that gravity and sewage would push their bodies forwards under the front of the garage? I'm not sure to be honest, just thinking aloud really. Also, if that's what happened then it also explains his concerns about the garage door when he was arrested - he knew that Boris and Helen weren't under the rear garden trapdoor and were most likely under the garage trap door.

 

[Alyce]

Ashish Joshi ‏@ashishskynews 6m6 minutes ago

By removing the debris he "saw an arm". Mr Beavis says he was in shock. Discussions followed about what could be removed from the cesspit.

 

[Rayemonde]

As I've said elsewhere, it wasn't really a criticism of IS' sons so much as an observation about Helen's remarkable generosity in tolerating two grown up step children. To welcome his two adult sons into the marital home as she did, with the inevitable inconveniences that will bring, says to me she was a very generous person (to be tolerant of ones own adult children is one thing, to extend the same privileges to someone else's is another matter entirely). Obviously I never lived there and don't know for sure but I get the impression she was rather taken for granted in that lovely home that she had provided for them all. I feel so sad when I picture her making that cottage pie for them all on the Saturday night before she died, chopping onions and no doubt thinking about wedding arrangements without a clue that her fiance was plotting her destruction.

Helen revealed she was somewhat dominated and taken for granted in her first marriage - I suspect the same thing was happening in this relationship though the eventual, horrific outcome could not have been predicted.

We just don't know. It could have been Helen's idea, for all we know. She may have wanted the rent money, as it seems she was quite careful with her money. And maybe she wasn't keen on the girlfriend staying over because the girlfriend wasn't paying any rent.

 

[Alyce]

Mr Beavis returned to drain the rest of the tank on July 20

On July 20, Mr Beavis went back to the house with a colleague. On this occasion, he removed the liquid contents of the cesspit. That’s the end of Mr Beavis’ evidence. That’s the end of the case for today. The case will resume on Friday, at 10am.

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/new...murder-trial-week-12503618?service=responsive

 

[Alyce]

That’s the end of the case for today. The case will resume on Friday, at 10am

 

[DollyDiamond]

Sounds like she may have been discovered wearing the blue and white stripey top we keep seeing her wearing in all the photos of her with IS. Strange how small, incidental details like this bring home the horror of it all.

 

[Alyce]

Surely he is unlikely to have dumped the bodies in the garden access point? The garage cesspit opening would be private and not overlooked.

Back of the garage isnt overlooked, but seems I was wrong anyway, there are two tanks.

 

[ZaZara]

OMG! That seems to be it surely? The trapped grass certainly points to the cover having been lifted in the trap behind the garage. The fact it was fresh grass perhaps points to IS having a later peek between April and July and to his horror (or not) realising that both Helen and Boris had been pushed forward towards the trap door in the garage. Or maybe he planned it that way in the first place - pop them in the easier trap door and hope that gravity and sewage would push their bodies forwards under the front of the garage? I'm not sure to be honest, just thinking aloud really.

This might work as soon as gravity moves water upwards and sewage pipes are big enough to let bodies through.

Don't know when that will be though.

 

[Cherwell]

Mr Beavis said he lifted the cesspit cover using a ‘T shaped key’, to hook the cover out of the hole.

And there we have it. It was just a matter of having the right tool for the job.

 

[Alyce]

Sounds like she may have been discovered wearing the blue and white stripey top we keep seeing her wearing in all the photos of her with IS. Strange how small, incidental details like this bring home the horror of it all.

That was exactly my thought Dolly. That pic has been shown so often, it is how I see Helen, when I imagine her, wearing that top and smiling .............now it will remind me of the tank

 

[Alyce]

And there we have it. It was just a matter of having the right tool for the job.

Exactly. So pleased to read that today

 

[DollyDiamond]

Why oh why is not the Prosecution drawing the jury's attention more pertinently to the fact that IS was perfectly capable of lifting the manhole cover in the garden/lawn and to the FACT that there was evidence of grass trapped beneath, indicating recent removal/replacement !!!!!

Obviously, a weight such as a body would plummet down and be carried towards the cesspit/well sited beneath the garage . . . hence floating to just below the encrusted surface . . . .

Surely IS would not have used the garden access point to dump Helen and Boris' bodies in broad daylight? Wouldn't that have been risky? It makes far more sense to me that he's have done it out of sight in the garage. However the advantage of the garden access point presumably is that the bodies would potentially have drifted and been more inaccessible - this could explain IS apparent confidence that they would not be found.

 

[Rayemonde]

OMG! That seems to be it surely? The trapped grass certainly points to the cover having been lifted in the trap behind the garage. The fact it was fresh grass perhaps points to IS having a later peek between April and July and to his horror (or not) realising that both Helen and Boris had been pushed forward towards the trap door in the garage. Or maybe he planned it that way in the first place - pop them in the easier trap door and hope that gravity and sewage would push their bodies forwards under the front of the garage? I'm not sure to be honest, just thinking aloud really. Also, if that's what happened then it also explains his concerns about the garage door when he was arrested - he knew that Boris and Helen weren't under the rear garden trapdoor and were most likely under the garage trap door.

Didn't the police lift that cover the last time they searched the place? That would explain the trapped grass.

 

[icemaiden65]

i don't know, it seems as though there were two covers, one under the first, but this isn't clear from the photos i've seen. I imagined the top cover being like an insert into the garage floor, painted the same colour, with debris underneath, and then an inner cover. She says the inner cover was difficult to move and that the dog "searched over it", so i'm not sure that it was actually lifted then.

I don't understand "bits of wood appeared to be acting as a wench". What does she mean by a wench?

wedge?

 

[Cherwell]

Surely IS would not have used the garden access point to dump Helen and Boris' bodies in broad daylight? Wouldn't that have been risky? It makes far more sense to me that he's have done it out of sight in the garage. However the advantage of the garden access point presumably is that the bodies would potentially have drifted and been more inaccessible - this could explain IS apparent confidence that they would not be found.

It would have made no sense to use the trap in the garden as it only leads to the secondary overflow tank. The pipes wouldn't be large enough.

 

[snoopydog]

I see your point but equally his family have presumably read her book and are aware of everything in it. I do think a big part of this case is "how did he fool everyone?" and I don't think it's unreasonable to speculate a little on how an incisive and discerning woman was so taken in by him.

I do feel terribly for IS's son Jamie - was he the one who has been visiting him or the other one? What a nightmare to open the door to police coming to arrest your dad for a domestic murder.

Was IS bailed after his initial arrest? I suppose that will be covered this afternoon.

I was talking about her relationship with her husband who died, not the one with Ian Stewart. I think the previous speculation is unnecessary.

 

[Legally Bland]

wedge?

Good shout. I can't believe I actually googled to see if the word 'wench' has another meaning.

 

[Squamous]

OMG! That seems to be it surely? The trapped grass certainly points to the cover having been lifted in the trap behind the garage. The fact it was fresh grass perhaps points to IS having a later peek between April and July and to his horror (or not) realising that both Helen and Boris had been pushed forward towards the trap door in the garage. Or maybe he planned it that way in the first place - pop them in the easier trap door and hope that gravity and sewage would push their bodies forwards under the front of the garage? I'm not sure to be honest, just thinking aloud really. Also, if that's what happened then it also explains his concerns about the garage door when he was arrested - he knew that Boris and Helen weren't under the rear garden trapdoor and were most likely under the garage trap door.

But wasn't the evidence that the police officer said there was a narrow pipe under the easy to lift cover? I'm picturing like a drainpipe...

I'm confused on who found the body, our Mr Beavis or the policeman? Poor Mr Beavis though, what a hideous experience.