GUILTY UK - Helen Bailey, 51, Royston, 11 April 2016 #2

[snoopydog]

At websleuths , pretty much everything is relevant. Neither do any of us know why she would have kept ashes in a garage.

I can speculate on ashes being in the garage because I know numerous numbers of people who have their partner's ashes still at home somewhere with them. Myself included.

 

[Alyce]

But wasn't the evidence that the police officer said there was a narrow pipe under the easy to lift cover? I'm picturing like a drainpipe...

I'm confused on who found the body, our Mr Beavis or the policeman? Poor Mr Beavis though, what a hideous experience.

that confused me as well, because from the police officer evidence, he seemed to imply that he had found Helen.

 

[snoopydog]

At websleuths , pretty much everything is relevant. Neither do any of us know why she would have kept ashes in a garage.

and NO, everything is not relevant, Helen and IS not having dealt with their ashes yet is nothing to do with him killing her and putting her in a cess pit.

 

[Legally Bland]

But wasn't the evidence that the police officer said there was a narrow pipe under the easy to lift cover? I'm picturing like a drainpipe...

I'm confused on who found the body, our Mr Beavis or the policeman? Poor Mr Beavis though, what a hideous experience.

It sort of seems the new hole only covers about half of the old hole, if that makes sense.

It's tight at 27cm, but just big enough I reckon (unfortunately).

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...5million-home-lived-fianc-accused-murder.html

 

[Florrie]

But wasn't the evidence that the police officer said there was a narrow pipe under the easy to lift cover? I'm picturing like a drainpipe...

I'm confused on who found the body, our Mr Beavis or the policeman? Poor Mr Beavis though, what a hideous experience.

Yes, got a feeling I read way back that the police had already searched that bit of the cesspit system. They were apparently unaware of the other cover at that stage.

I think Me Beavis was present when the resistance he felt turned out to be a body. Not sure if it was him or the policeman who discovered it. Further back one of the policeman said he could feel resistance...that the probe (or whatever they were using) encountered a solid shape. Possibly they were working together.

Yes indeed poor Mr Beavis, what a horrible experience for him and for everyone.

All I keep thinking is that IS and his sons would have been using the toilet daily and IS knew what was happening to the liquids and solids being flushed away.


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[Squamous]

that confused me as well, because from the police officer evidence, he seemed to imply that he had found Helen.

Yes, the police officer seemed to say that he alone and poking the crust when he felt change of texture and found Helen's arm, the contractor sounds like he is suggesting he was alone.

I suppose the upshot is that they found her, and it was horrific

 

[cottonweaver]

No, 2015 - it was a year before Helen was killed.

Stewart caught lying again. Didn't he say the tank had never been emptied as far as he knew?

Thankyou Cherwell, that error would have lodged in my mind for a while. Just catching up now.

PS. Am just wondering if the idea came to him around this time ( this early) , when he talked to the drainage Co. about how the septic works etc . Who knows? Still it's interesting. When this kind of killing is NOT a crime of passion but is very much pre-med, surely it is a major priority for the calculated perpetrator - how can I dispose of the body?

 

[ZaZara]

In my wildest dreams I would not have expected IS to hide the bodies in a tank that was still in use. A tank that had to be emptied at least one a year.
In all the stories so far we heard this tank was referred as an ancient tank.
I assumed it was out of use and that the next tank, the one behind the garage was operating as the main tank. Or had been until the house was connected to the sewerage.

Question: has the house been connected to the sewerage in the meantime?

I wonder what his plan was. He could no longer give access to the cesspit in the garage to anyone. Was he going to use the second tank in the garden as a main tank and have that emptied, by another service company?

A lot can be learned about sewerage systems from the man who comes to empty your tank.

 

[snoopydog]

I see your point but equally his family have presumably read her book and are aware of everything in it. I do think a big part of this case is "how did he fool everyone?" and I don't think it's unreasonable to speculate a little on how an incisive and discerning woman was so taken in by him.

I do feel terribly for IS's son Jamie - was he the one who has been visiting him or the other one? What a nightmare to open the door to police coming to arrest your dad for a domestic murder.

Was IS bailed after his initial arrest? I suppose that will be covered this afternoon.

I think most probably he managed to fool her because he got in there while she was at the most vulnerable stage of grieving, 5 months in is nothing and she'll have been a mess mentally. This man has played her big style and unfortunately her mental state at the time hasn't allowed her to see his true colours..... just my opinion....

 

[jessie]

I am sure I read in MSM when HB's body was found that it was discovered in what was described as an 'overflow' pit.
This would only be connected to the main tank (which doesn't sound like a tank since I believe it was described as brick built?) by a fairly narrow pipe, taking overflow to prevent flooding.
Understandable that this overflow pit did not need clearing previously as I doubt it took effluent directly from the main house. just imo




I

 

[cottonweaver]

Surely IS would not have used the garden access point to dump Helen and Boris' bodies in broad daylight? Wouldn't that have been risky? It makes far more sense to me that he's have done it out of sight in the garage. However the advantage of the garden access point presumably is that the bodies would potentially have drifted and been more inaccessible - this could explain IS apparent confidence that they would not be found.

Agree with your bolded.
Is it the case then, that all future drainage would be done via the garden access only , thereby making it unlikely for the body to ever have been discovered?
today's evidence hasn't been quite as clear as I would have liked...... to finally put the whole issue to rest.

 

[Squamous]

I am sure I read in MSM when HB's body was found that it was discovered in what was described as an 'overflow' pit.
This would only be connected to the main tank (which doesn't sound like a tank since I believe it was described as brick built?) by a fairly narrow pipe, taking overflow to prevent flooding.
Understandable that this overflow pit did not need clearing previously as I doubt it took effluent directly from the main house. just imo




I

I read it the opposite way, that the tank they were in was a mid-system tank and the obvious tank in the garden was the overflow one, and the one the police found first time round.

I guess today's evidence answers the question about whether the tank was in use, it would definitely seem to be the case. Super dodgy then that IS told the police that he had no idea what was below the man hole cover in the garden and didn't know that they had a septic tank!!

 

[cottonweaver]

I can speculate on ashes being in the garage because I know numerous numbers of people who have their partner's ashes still at home somewhere with them. Myself included.

Yeah, our family ashes have been kept in the house, in the past.

 

[SiSi]

Witness Phillip Underdown, who works driving a lorry for environmental waste disposal . . . . .
“I had a discussion with the man at the Royston house about how septic tanks work.”

How chilling!!! Can only imagine the jury's thoughts and feelings at hearing this!

 

[DollyDiamond]

Yes, got a feeling I read way back that the police had already searched that bit of the cesspit system. They were apparently unaware of the other cover at that stage.

I think Me Beavis was present when the resistance he felt turned out to be a body. Not sure if it was him or the policeman who discovered it. Further back one of the policeman said he could feel resistance...that the probe (or whatever they were using) encountered a solid shape. Possibly they were working together.

Yes indeed poor Mr Beavis, what a horrible experience for him and for everyone.

All I keep thinking is that IS and his sons would have been using the toilet daily and IS knew what was happening to the liquids and solids being flushed away.


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I agree - the murder is horrific enough but the utter contempt with which he treats the bodies of Helen and Boris is shocking. I never met the lady and this makes me very angry - how her loved ones must feel about the way she was disrespected in life and in death I can only imagine.

 

[Legally Bland]

http://www.screwfix.com/p/monument-t-end-heavy-duty-lifting-keys/9854k

I have no doubts IS could have lifted the cover in the garage.

 

[Squamous]

In my wildest dreams I would not have expected IS to hide the bodies in a tank that was still in use. A tank that had to be emptied at least one a year.
In all the stories so far we heard this tank was referred as an ancient tank.
I assumed it was out of use and that the next tank, the one behind the garage was operating as the main tank. Or had been until the house was connected to the sewerage.

Question: has the house been connected to the sewerage in the meantime?

I wonder what his plan was. He could no longer give access to the cesspit in the garage to anyone. Was he going to use the second tank in the garden as a main tank and have that emptied, by another service company?

A lot can be learned about sewerage systems from the man who comes to empty your tank.

I wonder if he thought a body would decompose quickly in the tank like effluent does? I was surprised when the pathologist said it would actually act to preserve it although decomposition would be swift once the body came in contact with the air. Maybe IS just thought Helen and Boris would dissolve down there. It does beggar belief though.

 

[cottonweaver]

In my wildest dreams I would not have expected IS to hide the bodies in a tank that was still in use. A tank that had to be emptied at least one a year.
In all the stories so far we heard this tank was referred as an ancient tank.
I assumed it was out of use and that the next tank, the one behind the garage was operating as the main tank. Or had been until the house was connected to the sewerage.

Question: has the house been connected to the sewerage in the meantime?

I wonder what his plan was. He could no longer give access to the cesspit in the garage to anyone. Was he going to use the second tank in the garden as a main tank and have that emptied, by another service company?

A lot can be learned about sewerage systems from the man who comes to empty your tank.

BIB - Totally agree ZaZara - this is baffling indeed.
Maybe in closing, it will become clearer?

 

[Alyce]

I read it the opposite way, that the tank they were in was a mid-system tank and the obvious tank in the garden was the overflow one, and the one the police found first time round.

I guess today's evidence answers the question about whether the tank was in use, it would definitely seem to be the case. Super dodgy then that IS told the police that he had no idea what was below the man hole cover in the garden and didn't know that they had a septic tank!!

BIB that was what happened - I remember the msm from the first search in April, they talked about the garden cess pit being searched

 

[Alyce]

I agree - the murder is horrific enough but the utter contempt with which he treats the bodies of Helen and Boris is shocking. I never met the lady and this makes me very angry - how her loved ones must feel about the way she was disrespected in life and in death I can only imagine.

It has always made me think about Helen's dislike/fear or anxiety of water ( as in the sea or a large body of water ) and to have her end up placed into a watery grave just adds to the horror and shows the level of disrespect he had for her.