GUILTY UK - Helen Bailey, 51, Royston, 11 April 2016 #2

[cottonweaver]

Someone did find some info early on. It was suggested by some then that Ian was a penniless money grabber and someone actually made some nasty remarks about 'his shabby council house' about a photo taken of them inside a house which actually turned out to Helens house (oops someone had humble pie to chew on) and his house sold for a fair amount if I recall correctly.

Will do some digging!

It doesn't appear to have been accurate mrazda. About ten pages back we had links to his old home.

 

[ZaZara]

I think he was absolutely sure that the bodies would decompose, quickly. As I've said before on this thread, he clearly doesn't read any crime writer message boards, which would have told him differently ( although a lye solution added to the tank would have helped him considerably ).
Plus he didn't have many other options, as I see it. I can't see him digging a burial place, or putting a body in a car and having to drive to a convenient lake or river or secluded wooded area.

BBM

LOL .... that would have ruined the system.

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/new...murder-trial-week-12503618?service=responsive
“The first visit involved a drain of 1,000 gallons, and on the second visit was probably more, probably 2,000 gallons.”

The last time the tank was emptied, 2000 gallons were pumped from it.
Now do the math. How much lye would IS need to dissolve a body in 2000 gallons, where would he buy it and how would he store it?
Not to mention the fumes and the damage to the tank.
Come to think of it, due to the exothermic reaction of lye and water, the lid would probably be blown off if he had managed to put it back.

 

[Legally Bland]

I think he was absolutely sure that the bodies would decompose, quickly. As I've said before on this thread, he clearly doesn't read any crime writer message boards, which would have told him differently ( although a lye solution added to the tank would have helped him considerably ).
Plus he didn't have many other options, as I see it. I can't see him digging a burial place, or putting a body in a car and having to drive to a convenient lake or river or secluded wooded area.

I think retrieving the bodies would be problematic.

I can only think his plan was to only drain the overflow tank. Maybe if he used a different company they wouldn't know it was a secondary tank.

 

[Cherwell]

This is me surmising, but I got the impression that IS did not know Helen's friends or family very well. Some of my impression has been formed from stuff that I cant talk of on here.
one example - Tracey called Helen's brother when she couldnt get hold of Helen. Wouldnt it have been more normal to call the partner that Helen lived with.

I think he miscalculated hugely and had no idea they would be seriously concerned, right from the beginning, about Helen's disappearance.

Perhaps his friends ( of which we know nothing so far ) would not have been seriously concerned if he had gone off for some time alone and he based his judgement on this ?

Exactly, he is quoted somewhere as saying that Helen only knew one person in London, which is plainly absurd.

 

[Squamous]

Exactly, he is quoted somewhere as saying that Helen only knew one person in London, which is plainly absurd.

I think those comments were more about how many friendly neighbours she had to call on if she needed something or would chat to in the street, which would be a big difference between London and a small town. Helen herself was clear she didn't have any neighbours she knew/liked in Highgate.

 

[DollyDiamond]

Someone did find some info early on. It was suggested by some then that Ian was a penniless money grabber and someone actually made some nasty remarks about 'his shabby council house' about a photo taken of them inside a house which actually turned out to Helens house (oops someone had humble pie to chew on) and his house sold for a fair amount if I recall correctly.

Will do some digging!

Hmmm... not entirely sure why anyone would feel they had to eat humble pie over a mild, implied insult to a suspected killer!

 

[Bethan]

RSBM

Zoplicone comes in striking blue and white tablets, but it is also available online in China, in the form of a white powder.

I was surprised about what HB's mother told about HB having high blood pressure.
She should have taken medication for that, but it remained unclear if she did and if she went to see a doctor for regular check-ups.

As Zopiclone is now off-patent in Europe & some other countries ( but not USA) it is produced by a number of drug companies & its appearance will vary depending on the brand.

My zopiclone, made by TEVA is a small round white tablet, but I've previously had small white oval tablets made by a different company, from my doctor's dispensary.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[DollyDiamond]

I think those comments were more about how many friendly neighbours she had to call on if she needed something or would chat to in the street, which would be a big difference between London and a small town. Helen herself was clear she didn't have any neighbours she knew/liked in Highgate.

I lived in Highgate for 20 years (I wonder if I ever bumped into Helen?) and it is untypical of London in that it has an authentic, 'villagy' feel, and in my experience people are as friendly and neighbourly as in any supposedly more affable location outside of London. I have to say I would find it surprising if Helen didn't find it a friendly, neighbourly place - particularly as she seemed to be a sociable person and made it clear she missed it very much. Manipulators like IS don't want their victim to have relationships outside of their partnership - even the most distant friendship with a neighbour doesn't suit their goal to isolate and control.

 

[mrazda71]

Hmmm... not entirely sure why anyone would feel they had to eat humble pie over a mild, implied insult to a suspected killer!

Because they were being insulting and nasty in a spiteful way about 'Ians house' and it turned out to Helens house so some backtracking was done as why would anyone say nasty things about Helens home?

 

[Legally Bland]

BBM

LOL .... that would have ruined the system.

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/new...murder-trial-week-12503618?service=responsive
“The first visit involved a drain of 1,000 gallons, and on the second visit was probably more, probably 2,000 gallons.”

The last time the tank was emptied, 2000 gallons were pumped from it.
Now do the math. How much lye would IS need to dissolve a body in 2000 gallons, where would he buy it and how would he store it?
Not to mention the fumes and the damage to the tank.
Come to think of it, due to the exothermic reaction of lye and water, the lid would probably be blown off if he had managed to put it back.

Roughly how much?

If you have an idea off-hand, otherwise don't worry I'll take your word for it.

I'm OK at maths, but don't want 'how much lye does it take to decompose a human body' in my search history.

 

[jessie]

As Zopiclone is now off-patent in Europe & some other countries ( but not USA) it is produced by a number of drug companies & its appearance will vary depending on the brand.

My zopiclone, made by TEVA is a small round white tablet, but I've previously had small white oval tablets made by a different company, from my doctor's dispensary.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Just to add my zopiclone is a small beigey/pinkish pill.. Identical to my blood pressure pills !! Both come in popper packs not loose in bottles.

ETA I was very surprised to read that HB's doctor informed her that she had high blood pressure, but seems to have avoided prescribing for this - almost negligent imo.

 

[SiSi]

Roughly how much?

If you have an idea off-hand, otherwise don't worry I'll take your word for it.

I'm OK at maths, but don't want 'how much lye does it take to decompose a human body' in my search history.

TeeHee!!!!!

 

[Legally Bland]

I lived in Highgate for 20 years (I wonder if I ever bumped into Helen?) and it is untypical of London in that it has an authentic, 'villagy' feel, and in my experience people are as friendly and neighbourly as in any supposedly more affable location outside of London. I have to say I would find it surprising if Helen didn't find it a friendly, neighbourly place - particularly as she seemed to be a sociable person and made it clear she missed it very much. Manipulators like IS don't want their victim to have relationships outside of their partnership - even the most distant friendship with a neighbour doesn't suit their goal to isolate and control.

I lived in East Finchley for a few years and spent plenty of time in Highgate. I can vouch for the villagey feel. It really doesn't seem like you're in London, rather in the countryside.

You feel a world away from the madness of Holloway road yet it's just a short steep hill away.

I'll defer to you on the neighbourliness, not having lived there.

 

[DollyDiamond]

We don't have arguments on Websleuth, we debate and discuss which is healthy as too much of one persons opinion is dull.

What proof can you provide that Helen paid for everything (including the house) and was 'taken for granted'? Or that she was unhappy?

You have jumped to conclusions, I never said Helen paid for everything. But it would be surprising if she was not the main financier of their multi-million pound lifestyle, as the sole multi-millionaire in the partnership. It seems to me she invested an awful lot in the relationship - not just in monetary terms in lots of ways eg welcoming her partner's grown up children into the family home and my question remains, what did she get out of it? The nature of their relationship and domestic life will go some way towards understanding the murder that ensued.

As I have made clear, I did not live with the people in question and connot provide the proof you ask me for that she was taken for granted. I am giving my opinion (as we all do) based on the known facts. Incidentally, I never said she was unhappy either - you jumped to another conclusion there. People who are being exploited are not always aware of it at the time, and as she was planning to marry her killer right up to the moment he murdered her, clearly she was unaware of a lot of things!

As a woman I am interested in the abuse behind the murder. Abuse does not always mean physical or verbal violence it can be far more subtle than that. Clearly the relationship between Helen and IS was dysfunctional, as evidenced by the fact he later killed her, and her dog.

I love this forum precisely because it encourages debate and the vast majority of that debate is thoughtful, intelligent and respectful. <modsnip>

 

[Squamous]

This was Helen's own words on it:

http://www.lifeafterlondon.com/leaving-london-not-quite-the-dream/

 

[sar2them1984]

Just to add my zopiclone is a small beigey/pinkish pill.. Identical to my blood pressure pills !! Both come in popper packs not loose in bottles.

ETA I was very surprised to read that HB's doctor informed her that she had high blood pressure, but seems to have avoided prescribing for this - almost negligent imo.

I did raise a number of pages or so ago whether we knew for definite whether Helen was or was not prescribed anything for her HBB and how similar looking that tablet was to the zopliclone

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[mrazda71]

It doesn't appear to have been accurate mrazda. About ten pages back we had links to his old home.

What doesn't appear to have been accurate?

 

[jessie]

I did raise a number of pages or so ago whether we knew for definite whether Helen was or was not prescribed anything for her HBB and how similar looking that tablet was to the zopliclone

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Yes I think your post referred to me admitting to having mixed the pills up and taken the wrong one :facepalm:

 

[cottonweaver]

This was Helen's own words on it:

http://www.lifeafterlondon.com/leaving-london-not-quite-the-dream/

Thanks for linking this S. I've read it before but great to have it to hand again. "I'm not unhappy here.." "my heart feels as if I'm going in the wrong direction, literally and emotionally.".........I do think she perhaps may have wanted to move back.

It's only relevant to me if this is part of the trigger for IS as it's certainly not what IS wanted. (Such a pity that neither of them seem to have had the kinds of really close friends that we have, who could testify that there had indeed been discussions. )

 

[cottonweaver]

What doesn't appear to have been accurate?

IS & family didn't leave in a shabby council house and I assume he put money into the house purchase. ( How much ?iDK. As a previous poster says, it would be interesting if this financial info were disclosed in the next weeks of trial.)