GUILTY UK - Helen Bailey, 51, Royston, 11 April 2016 #7

[Joely 123]

In the updates (thank you CW). Is there one missing where the Judge asks Mrs John - when she last drove her car before the 11th April (wtte) .. and she says, she doesn't know.

I like the Judge catching her out on her memory.

 

[cottonweaver]

and what was the point of this

“About a year/18 months ago I saw Helen up by the fire station further up the road from where we live with a tall thin man. She seemed quite animated with him, quite happy. They both had raincoats on. He was very smart.”

Is this meant to indicate this is Nick?

 

[cottonweaver]

In the updates (thank you CW). Is there one missing where the Judge asks Mrs John - when she last drove her car before the 11th April (wtte) .. and she says, she doesn't no.

I like the Judge catching her out on her memory.

TX. Yes there is will insert it above x

ETA _ How bright is Judge Bright? Very !
Sh hadn't prepped for that one. LOL

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Angela John. ( in one so we don't have to scroll back and forth)
The next witness will be Angela John. Mrs John made a statement to police on April 27 relating to Helen Bailey, who she believed to be missing. “I had seen Helen walking the dog on the main road where she lived in Royston on numerous occasions once a month, then I saw a newspaper article saying who she was. “I didn’t even know where she lived at this time. “There was an article in the Royston Crow with a picture of her when her latest book came out, and I thought ‘oh that’s the lady who walks the dachshund’. “Once I found out she was an author I was going to ask her for pointers for my grandchild but I never saw her again.”

“About a year/18 months ago I saw Helen up by the fire station further up the road from where we live with a tall thin man. She seemed quite animated with him, quite happy. They both had raincoats on. He was very smart.”

“The day I last saw Helen Bailey was April 11, in the afternoon, between 3.40pm and 3.50pm. “I saw her about 20/30 foot away from her house gate. The dog on a lead was with her. “Her neighbour had a very tall wooden fence erected, Helen was silhouetted against that. “As I was approaching her I thought ‘Oh that’s Helen I haven’t seen her in ages’. “Then I thought she would get wet as it started drizzling. “There was no doubt it was Helen and her dog, and no doubt it was April 11. “There was no doubt the time was 3.40pm to 3.50pm.”

cross examined by the prosecution
Mrs John is now being cross examined by the prosecution. She admits that she became aware there was a missing person’s inquiry - and police did a door to door inquiry. “I said yes I thought I had seen Helen, then a police officer came to get a statement.” Mrs Jones confirms she had seen Helen any number of times walking along the road. Prosecutor Stuart Trimmer asks: “You first spoke to police, then they came back to take a statement?” Mrs John: “Yes, they haven’t been back since.”

Witness had not seen Helen wearing that type of clothing before
Mrs John said Helen was wearing a stone or beige pair of trousers and a shirt of the same colour when she saw the author on April 11. Trimmer: “You’d never seen Helen on a similar occasion wearing clothes like that?” Mrs John: “No”

Trimmer: “You’re used to dog walkers there because it’s near a heath?”
Mrs John: “Yes”
Trimmer: “But on this occasion this person you saw was walking in a determined fashion?”
Mrs John: “Yes”
Trimmer: “Putting her hands through her hair?” Mrs John: “Yes. This made me look even more carefully whether it was Helen or not.”

Trimmer: “Is there a danger this could be the Monday previous?” Mrs John: “I don’t think so, as far as I’m concerned it was in the afternoon on Monday April 11.” Trimmer: “The way in which you appear to be fixing the way you saw Helen Bailey is either by going to the Building Society or the hairdressers, but it may not be on that occasion that you saw her, it may be on the Tuesday?” Mrs John: “No, I never normally going to Royston in the afternoon. It was unusual circumstances that I had to go to the hairdressers on Monday afternoon”

Trimmer: “Why can’t it be the week before that you saw Helen, when you went to the Building Society [on Monday April 4]?” Mrs John: “Because I normally walk to Royston, but this time I used the car because it was raining.”

BBM - What does everyone make of this? Walking in a determined fashion? Someone in a bad mood or in a hurry?
Putting her hands through her hair? Feeling exasperated, worrying, thinking?
For all we know, it wasn't even Helen. I wonder if the person walking their dachshund knows about this trial, that it was them not Helen? Or it's the wrong day or ? :thinking:

 

[Cherwell]

Trimmer: “Is there a danger this could be the Monday previous?”
Mrs John: “I don’t think so, as far as I’m concerned it was in the afternoon on Monday April 11.”

She sounds like the obstinate type. I think she probably saw someone fleetingly while driving past, but it wasn't Helen.
She just assumed it was Helen, and then wanted it to be her so she could have her moment.

I note the police didn't go back to her. Was she a bit miffed about that?
It would be good if a WSer was in court to give us their impressions.

 

[snoopydog]

Angela
“The day I last saw Helen Bailey was April 11, in the afternoon, between 3.40pm and 3.50pm. “I saw her about 20/30 foot away from her house gate. The dog on a lead was with her. “Her neighbour had a very tall wooden fence erected, Helen was silhouetted against that. “As I was approaching her I thought ‘Oh that’s Helen I haven’t seen her in ages’. “Then I thought she would get wet as it started drizzling. “There was no doubt it was Helen and her dog, and no doubt it was April 11. “There was no doubt the time was 3.40pm to 3.50pm.”


.”

Ok so she says helen was silhouetted, this would mean she was a black profile with light behind it, if she was genuinely in silhouette she would not be able to discern what she was wearing at all. So she's talking JIVE imo


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[neteditor]

[video=twitter;831516238060908545]https://twitter.com/BBC3CR/status/831516238060908545[/video]

 

[cottonweaver]

She sounds like a model to me, prime suspect :"Walking in a determined fashion, Putting her hands through her hair" colour - blocking . LOL.
( Ps have updated the transcript to add the Judges question)

 

[icemaiden65]

I wonder what those notices on the gates of H Lodge are? The images are dated August 2016. Wish I could zoom in. I'm so nosey.

I think they're ornamental thingies a bit like coats of arms built into the wrought iron gates. I had a good nosey online weeks ago and they're also shown on the estate agents advert stuff. Here: http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-29951740.html

It's image number 4 by the way. Also, I just spotted on that image that there's quite a low gate to the right hand side with the same ornamental style to it - so in fact it's possible that the electric gates were purely to keep cars from coming and going - you could almost hop over the gate to the right. Providing you protected your you-know-whats if you were a chap!

 

[neteditor]

I think they're ornamental thingies a bit like coats of arms built into the wrought iron gates. I had a good nosey online weeks ago and they're also shown on the estate agents advert stuff. Here: http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-29951740.html

It's image number 4 by the way. Also, I just spotted on that image that there's quite a low gate to the right hand side with the same ornamental style to it - so in fact it's possible that the electric gates were purely to keep cars from coming and going - you could almost hop over the gate to the right. Providing you protected your you-know-whats if you were a chap!

I know the things you mean but I am not talking aboujt those. In the Google map image dated August 16 there are clearly what look like A4 size notices or laminates perhaps. I resized as high I could go and there does look to be a yellow warning triangle at end of the sheet, so probably is a safety warning notice as was said.

 

[Alyce]

BBM - What does everyone make of this? Walking in a determined fashion? Someone in a bad mood or in a hurry?
Putting her hands through her hair? Feeling exasperated, worrying, thinking?
For all we know, it wasn't even Helen. I wonder if the person walking their dachshund knows about this trial, that it was them not Helen? Or it's the wrong day or ? :thinking:

Did she mean to say putting one hand through her hair - because if she had Boris on a lead, she cant have hands through her hair ....

 

[cottonweaver]

Ok so she says helen was silhouetted, this would mean she was a black profile with light behind it if she was genuinely in silhouette she would not be able to discern what she was wearing at all. So she's talking JIVE imo


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:hilarious: And I thought silhouettes were based on darkness or contrast. What colour is that fence? She's wearing all beige? Dusk was I what time? ( I'll go back and check the fence photos)

 

[Milenalee]

I think this normalises something that no normal person would ever consider.

His thinking is probably never normal. Impossible for us to really fathom. He had it all and threw it away for what? I suspect he was really jealous of her too.


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[cottonweaver]

Did she mean to say putting one hand through her hair - because if she had Boris on a lead, she cant have hands through her hair ....

that needs to go in that note to the Defence - where's Net Ed and her ex?

 

[Rayemonde]

I have a vision in my head of this woman. The words small, town, busy body, curtain twitcher, come to mind. Obviously I could be totally wrong


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All right, no need to mock the witnesses. She's probably just made an honest mistake. Some people don't have brilliant memories, but don't realise it!

 

[Moll]

Witness had not seen Helen wearing that type of clothing before

Mrs John said Helen was wearing a stone or beige pair of trousers and a shirt of the same colour when she saw the author on April 11. Trimmer: “You’d never seen Helen on a similar occasion wearing clothes like that?”
Mrs John: “No”

From a car, in the rain, Helen silhouetted, and she knows the colour of her shirt and trousers?

I'm just repeating everyone's incredulity, I know.

 

[Alyce]

Sunset times, Royston April 2016


http://www.sunrise-and-sunset.com/en/sun/united-kingdom/royston/2016/april

 

[cottonweaver]

Sending the no-rain and the hands-free dog-walking to Strimmer

hone: Alternatively, email chambers now ?

Let's face it it won't be the first time "we've" contacted a Pros team with snippets!:blushing: ( No , not me personally and I won't name names)

 

[Duchy]

From a car, in the rain, Helen silhouetted, and she knows the colour of her shirt and trousers?

I'm just repeating everyone's incredulity, I know.

Was she wearing a coat over the beige shirt, seeing as it was raining?

 

[janeh]

All right, no need to mock the witnesses. She's probably just made an honest mistake. Some people don't have brilliant memories, but don't realise it!

The thing is though it was said with certainty from how I read this.

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