UK UK - Jill Dando, 37, Fulham, London, 26 Apr 1999

[SteveH]

Bit more about the roller skating stunt:

"Amid all the lies and deceit, George told the truth about one thing.

He WAS a stuntman - of sorts.

Fractured leg

In September 1981 - as Steve Majors - he made a foolhardy attempt to speed down a ramp on roller skates at Long Eaton in Derbyshire and leap over four double-decker buses.

The event, watched by a crowd of 5,000, was filmed by ATV Today (the forerunner of Central News).

George clipped the fourth bus and landed in a heap, fracturing his leg and dislocating his spine - but got up grinning and managed to skate away before being taken to hospital.

Before he climbed up to the top of the 60-foot ramp in a howling gale, he was given a good luck kiss by his Walsall girlfriend Margo.

Now 38, she has since married and works in an office in London, where she also lives."

More about Margo:

"Margo Bovell was a starry-eyed teenager when she fell for smooth-talking Barry George, who called himself Steve Majors at the time.

George, then aged 20, cheekily chatted up Margo after spotting her in the street while she was visiting her sister in London in 1980.

The naive 17-year-old was swept off her feet by the handsome stranger - and they were soon having steamy sex sessions [she denied this - see later linked article below].

But her more worldy-wise family and friends became unnerved at George's strange behaviour when he visited his conquest in her home town of Bloxwich, Walsall.

Londoner George would turn up out of the blue on roller skates - claiming he was in training for his job as a stuntman.

On dates in Birmingham and Wolverhampton, he often put Margo on the bus home - then showed off by zooming alongside on his skates....

In 1982, George once appeared on Margo's doorstep dressed from head-to-toe in camouflage battle fatigues and wearing the green beret of the Royal Marine Commandos.

He claimed he was on leave from the Falklands War which was raging at the time."

Both quotes from a rather sensationalist article in the Birmingham Sunday Mercury:

WEIRDO ON SKATES; Dando killer dashed around college on rollerboots just to talk to student he loved.. - Free Online Library

Free Online Library: WEIRDO ON SKATES; Dando killer dashed around college on rollerboots just to talk to student he loved.. by "Sunday Mercury (Birmingham, England)"; General interest

www.thefreelibrary.com

But although Margo said about George “He was such a weirdo and a stalker in the days before that word was even invented. Wherever I was, he was, and to this day I don’t know how he did it" she also stated she didn't believe he could have killed Jill Dando:

"I never thought he was capable of murder.

‘‘He had epileptic fits all the time and was not capable of holding his hand steady, so he would never have been able to aim a gun properly. He couldn’t even hold a magazine steady.

“And there was also no way he could have hatched such a sophisticated plan, he was just too simple. Yes, he was obsessive, but there was no way he could be violent in my experience."

Yet she also said that after he "appeared on her doorstep dressed from head-to-toe in camouflage battle fatigues and wearing the green beret of the Royal Marine Commandos" that she "began to fear him, especially after he turned up at my college and knocked on the door of my classroom. It was just too much and unnerved me terribly. To me he was a bit of a loner with an obsessive streak, so I just stopped answering his calls or seeing him that often."

Again George had shown his initiative and resourcefulness: "A week or two after we met he turned up at my mum’s house. I couldn’t believe it because I hadn’t told him where I lived, so had no idea how he found me."

My relationship with Barry George

A FORMER teenage girlfriend of Barry George has revealed how he stalked her during their relationship – years before he was accused of murdering TV star Jill Dando.

www.birminghammail.co.uk

There is a vague link with the other famous Fulham (probable) crime victim Suzy Lamplugh as well.

From the above 2012 article:

"He [George] is also reportedly besotted with Pam Wright, the fiancée of Suffolk Strangler Steve Wright."

Lamplugh worked with Wright on the QE2 and kept in touch with him when he lived in London.

In a 2012 piece in the Standard Wright's ex-wife Diane Cole recalled: "I knew Suzy Lamplugh by sight but she worked in the ship's hair salon and I was a sales assistant so I did not really come across her that much, though she came into the shop where I worked once or twice."

She added "I keep thinking Suzy was supposed to meet a man called Mr Kipper. I'm sure Steve used the word 'kipper' as slang for face. He used to say, 'What's up with your kipper?'"

To paraphrase myself (from a recent comment about Lamplugh on Websleuths) kippers might not necessarily be red herrings but red herrings ARE actually all kippers!

From Wikipedia: "There is no fish species called "red herring", rather it is a name given to a particularly strong kipper, made from fish (typically herring) strongly cured inbrine or heavily smoked. This process makes the fish particularly pungent smelling and, with strong enough brine, turns its flesh reddish."

Concerning Pam Wright:

"[Steve] Wright met his current partner Pamela - her surname coincidentally is also Wright - while working at a bingo hall.

They moved in together but at night, the part-time forklift driver was continuing his 25-year habit of using prostitutes, driving them in his Ford Mondeo back to the house he shared with Miss Wright and having sex with them in their bedroom while she was out at work...

Yet Miss Wright, to whom he proposed from behind bars last year, at first stood by him, telling a friend: "I will always love Steve no matter what happens.""

The ex-wife's story: My violent life with the Suffolk strangler- and

The decks of the QE2 were crowded but steward Steve Wright hardly seemed to notice as he focused on the beautiful young girl beside him.

www.standard.co.uk

Even in 2021 Pam questioned Wright's guilt: "More than 14 years after the murders, Pam and her son have left Ipswich and live in Devon, hundreds of miles away. But distance doesn’t erase the past.

“It’s with you morning and night, every day of your life. And I can never see that going away,” she said, adding that she still believes Steve is not guilty. “This is my life sentence.”

‘This Is My Life Sentence,' The Ex-Girlfriend Of The ‘Suffolk Strangler' Says | Oxygen

Learn more about the arrest of Ipswich serial killer Steve Wright, aka the Suffolk Strangler, whose girlfriend Diane spoke to "Living With a Serial Killer" about their relationship.

www.oxygen.com

 

[Hexe]

So he had the enterprise and initiative to propose an audacious performance in front of a large crowd, the social skills to sweet talk the organiser into staging it, the intelligence and cunning to concoct a fake CV and the courage to undertake a dangerous adventure. Hardly the pathetic dimwit many make him out to be - including himself.

Doing a dangerous stunt without required skills, in bad weather conditions and with basically guaranteed exposing as a fake at the end does indeed speak volumes about his intellectual abillities.

It shows his cause-and-effect thinking was really bad, that he craved attention immensely, but also that he was a convincing liar. Which does not fit much the quick, efficient and quiet killing of Jill.

 

[Professor Moriarty]

Doing a dangerous stunt without required skills, in bad weather conditions and with basically guaranteed exposing as a fake at the end does indeed speak volumes about his intellectual abillities.

It shows his cause-and-effect thinking was really bad, that he craved attention immensely, but also that he was a convincing liar. Which does not fit much the quick, efficient and quiet killing of Jill.

Have a look at

 

[davidt]

Have a look at

Watched this the other day when I got a notification it had come out. It'd unusual for him to cover a recent case. He usually deals in historical cases which is why I started watching. Unsolved murders of Caroline Luard and Julia Wallace for example.

He's usually pretty fair although I don't always agree with his conclusions and in some cases I've found some bits not covered. You'll get that in any documentary anyway. That's why it always pays to read and watch various takes on any case. One thing at the start of this documentary I'm not sure is correct is saying Jill was going about her regular routine. In the Netflix series her agent says she only went there to pick up some documents he'd faxed her. It also said she'd only told two or three people she was going. Prior to that she'd been away filming on various occasions. I've always felt this to be quite important as one of the issues is how likely is it that BG or someone else would be in the right place at the right time. How predictable was it? And if they'd just been waiting on the off chance how long before they would be noticed? Of course if it could be shown BG regularly carried a gun that changes things again.

 

[rvlvr]

Doing a dangerous stunt without required skills, in bad weather conditions and with basically guaranteed exposing as a fake at the end does indeed speak volumes about his intellectual abillities.

It shows his cause-and-effect thinking was really bad, that he craved attention immensely, but also that he was a convincing liar. Which does not fit much the quick, efficient and quiet killing of Jill.

Indeed.

While I understand we’re all armchair experts here, I personally think a line should be drawn when it comes to medical matters. To quote Brian Cathcart again, “no fewer than five experts” at George’s original trial were of the opinion that he was fit to stand, but also that his medical conditions, which included “attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, somatization, factitious disorder and histrionic/narcissistic personality disorder”, were “very real”.

He continues in his book: “The consequences were dismal: his IQ of seventy-six (the average is 100) placed him, in the words of one report, 'on the borderline of intellectual functioning'; his memory was very poor, as were his concentration and his ability to plan and execute complex actions; he was emotionally volatile and inclined to become rigid and stubborn in the face of difficulties”.

As I understand it, his epilepsy not only means that his brain didn’t develop properly as a child, resulting in his incredibly low IQ, but also that as a lifelong condition his mental and physical capabilities will consequently deteriorate over time. So even if we were to place any value on his bike stunt, I’m not sure of its relevance to Jill Dando’s murder which occurred almost 20 years later.

None of these diagnoses, btw, were challenged by the prosecution (AFAIK). IMO, they were more than happy for the jury - and the public - to believe that George was ‘mentally unwell’ because it supported their loner theory, and also because it meant that ‘well, he’s mental’ could be used to ‘explain’ many of the inadequacies and contradictions of their case.

 

[Kasparthecat1]

Watched this the other day when I got a notification it had come out. It'd unusual for him to cover a recent case. He usually deals in historical cases which is why I started watching. Unsolved murders of Caroline Luard and Julia Wallace for example.

He's usually pretty fair although I don't always agree with his conclusions and in some cases I've found some bits not covered. You'll get that in any documentary anyway. That's why it always pays to read and watch various takes on any case. One thing at the start of this documentary I'm not sure is correct is saying Jill was going about her regular routine. In the Netflix series her agent says she only went there to pick up some documents he'd faxed her. It also said she'd only told two or three people she was going. Prior to that she'd been away filming on various occasions. I've always felt this to be quite important as one of the issues is how likely is it that BG or someone else would be in the right place at the right time. How predictable was it? And if they'd just been waiting on the off chance how long before they would be noticed? Of course if it could be shown BG regularly carried a gun that changes things again.

 

[Kasparthecat1]

Watched this the other day when I got a notification it had come out. It'd unusual for him to cover a recent case. He usually deals in historical cases which is why I started watching. Unsolved murders of Caroline Luard and Julia Wallace for example.

He's usually pretty fair although I don't always agree with his conclusions and in some cases I've found some bits not covered. You'll get that in any documentary anyway. That's why it always pays to read and watch various takes on any case. One thing at the start of this documentary I'm not sure is correct is saying Jill was going about her regular routine. In the Netflix series her agent says she only went there to pick up some documents he'd faxed her. It also said she'd only told two or three people she was going. Prior to that she'd been away filming on various occasions. I've always felt this to be quite important as one of the issues is how likely is it that BG or someone else would be in the right place at the right time. How predictable was it? And if they'd just been waiting on the off chance how long before they would be noticed? Of course if it could be shown BG regularly carried a gun that changes things again.

 

[Kasparthecat1]

I found this video quite interesting and noted one or two things I hadn't picked up on before. Yeah you're right I think about the visit to Gowan Ave by JD NOT being her usual routine - she was pretty much living with her partner in Chiswick by this time according to most accounts. So whoever did this either got very lucky or the perp somehow got to know of her movements that day. BG lived in the area (approx 500 yards away).

One thing I picked up which I hadn't heard of before was that when revisiting either Traffic Cars or Hafad on the (I think) Wednesday following the murder, the presenter says that BG said that " he resembled the photofit" so was nervous of being associated with it. Yet at that time, says the presenter, the photofit hadn't been issued. Odd.

 

[davidt]

I found this video quite interesting and noted one or two things I hadn't picked up on before. Yeah you're right I think about the visit to Gowan Ave by JD NOT being her usual routine - she was pretty much living with her partner in Chiswick by this time according to most accounts. So whoever did this either got very lucky or the perp somehow got to know of her movements that day. BG lived in the area (approx 500 yards away).

One thing I picked up which I hadn't heard of before was that when revisiting either Traffic Cars or Hafad on the (I think) Wednesday following the murder, the presenter says that BG said that " he resembled the photofit" so was nervous of being associated with it. Yet at that time, says the presenter, the photofit hadn't been issued. Odd.

I'm going to watch it again as he talks about BGs IQ at one point. I want to make sure I didn't mishear first time around. I think he puts his IQ higher than I thought but I want to make sure I haven't got it wrong.

 

[Professor Moriarty]

People who think a loner, nutcase did it say he "got lucky". The alternative hitman, Serb agent, MI5 agent scenarios don't explain how the hitman knew JD would be there that day.

In the video being discussed, it is suggested that the nutcase lived locally and wandered around that area, so it would not be so unlikely that, one day, he would come across JD. The video also seems to suggest that the loner, nutcase might have come across her before, maybe exchanged conversation with her before and developed a crush on her, a crush that was doomed not to be reciprocated.

 

[davidt]

I think it's the same question whoever killed her. Did they get lucky or did they know or have reason to think she would be there and when.

 

[rvlvr]

The more you read into it, the more you come to realise that Jill Dando never really lived at the Gowan Avenue house in a conventional sense. Even when she and Bob Wheaton were dating, they’d apparently split their time between his place and hers, but often she was abroad filming Holiday, and there were instances where after landing at Heathrow she’d head straight to the BBC to read the news. “One August,” Brian Cathcart writes in his book, “she calculated that she had slept in her own bed four times in the month.”

There’s a couple of tales I’ve come across recently that highlight just how difficult it could be to find JD at the GA house. The first involves her stalker JH (he was cleared of any involvement in her murder) and is documented in Cathcart’s book:

“Addressing his letters to her at BBC Television Centre, he wrote about her screen appearances, what she said, how she looked and what she wore, and he told her about himself. She did not write back. Then he wrote asking her to meet him, but still got no reply. Frustrated, he eventually decided to act. He travelled up to London to find out - 'by perfectly legal means', as he stressed later - where she lived. The district was no secret, since at least one magazine had informed its readers she lived in 'upmarket Fulham', so all he had to do was go to a local library and comb through the electoral register street by street and house by house until her name came up. It might have taken a couple of hours. When Dando finally wrote him a letter asking to be left alone he was undeterred, as he thought he could 'win her round'. So he plucked up his courage and visited the house in the hope of talking to her. In fact he went three times, but she was never in.”

The second is from a Byline Times article discussing the possibility that JD’s phone was being hacked. Shortly after news of her engagement to Alan Farthing was made public, journalists were following up on the story and at least two - including one from the Daily Mirror - had engaged a firm of private investigators to confirm JD’s address:

“[T]he Daily Mirror journalist … later admitted to police that he’d been [to the Gowan Avenue house] a few times before, knowing that the engagement was imminent. No one had answered, he later told police, so [he] wrongly concluded Ms. Dando had moved out.”

Blagged to Death? How Scotland Yard Missed Crucial Clues in the Tabloid Targeting of Jill Dando

The Metropolitan Police suspected a Daily Mirror journalist of illegally 'blagging' the TV presenter three months before her murder, but didn't see the phone hacking connection.

bylinetimes.com

Cathcart’s book details her movements during the week leading up to her death. On the Tuesday she was at the BBC, presenting Crimewatch. On the Wednesday she flew out to Dublin to film for her new antiques show. She travelled back to England on the Friday and went straight to Alan Farthing’s house in Chiswick, “for she had been living with Alan pretty well full-time since the New Year.” They spent the weekend at his place, save for a quick visit she made, alone, to Gowan Avenue on the Saturday.

We know it was quick because of this detail regarding the timings that I’d never come across before:

“That Saturday afternoon she arrived at the house at 2.02 p.m. - the details of the visit were retained in the domestic alarm system and subsequently extracted by the police - and busied herself about a variety of little jobs. As she checked her fax machine she noticed that the ink cartridge was running low and paper was in short supply - she would have to restock. She also picked up a dress to wear at a formal event she was attending that evening. Then at 3.34 p.m. she let herself out and returned to Chiswick.”

JMO but that sounds like quite a sophisticated alarm system by the standards of the day. Presumably police could’ve worked out to the minute exactly how much time she’d spent at the GA house over whatever period of time the system retained the relevant data.

 

[SteveH]

Doing a dangerous stunt without required skills, in bad weather conditions and with basically guaranteed exposing as a fake at the end does indeed speak volumes about his intellectual abillities.

It shows his cause-and-effect thinking was really bad, that he craved attention immensely, but also that he was a convincing liar. Which does not fit much the quick, efficient and quiet killing of Jill.

Nothing to do with "intellectual abilities". Fred West was hardly Stephen Hawking.

When was BG exposed as a fake after his roller skating stunt? He did what he set out to do albeit sustaining some nasty injuries.

I don't know whether BG committed this crime or not. I go on the evidence, not the type of risible speculation about BG's personality, character, intelligence etc etc that one encounters time after time. in discussion of this case. My point was that he wasn't/isn't the complete wreck of a man that many present him as, nor was he totally socially inept or isolated, as the evidence in the reports I quoted would indicate (if we can believe ANYTHING we read).

How come you are so certain that he couldn't have carried out this assault. Quick, efficient and quiet? And in the open, in a usually busy residential street, in broad daylight without a getaway vehicle!

Again, if we believe what one of his former victims, Karen Gray, says, he had "previous" when it came to attacking a woman on her doorstep:

"On the stairs of a block of flats, George overpowered her, smothered her screams with his hand over her nose and mouth and ripped down her jeans to rape her.

As he left, he said 'sorry' before making for the nearest underground station and disappearing. He was not caught for a year.

It is hard to equate this glimpse of George the determined sex attacker with the man portrayed in court and by his family as a victim.

Barry George leaves the Old Bailey yesterday. The jury were not permitted to hear details of his vile attack on Miss Gray

Miss Gray knows what he is capable of. Now 46 and a mother of two, she says: 'It appeared to me that whatever his IQ, there was something there that permits him to be cunning and devious.

'He had lots of aliases and he told me he was Steve Majors and was clever enough to get himself involved in some Evel Knievel-style stunt....

She recalled: 'He changed when we walked up the stairs and he jumped on me from behind.

'He didn't have a knife or a gun but he forced me into a corner and put his hand over my mouth and nose so I couldn't breathe.

'He was very strong but it was all pretty pathetic. He pulled my jeans down and raped me but he couldn't finish the act.'...

A year later, George was caught after sexually assaulting another woman. He matched the description given by Miss Gray and a police officer remembered her attacker had used a German phrase.

He asked George if he spoke German and the suspect repeated exactly the same phrases.

When confronted, he broke down and confessed. He was initially charged with rape but because of a dispute over forensic evidence, the police reluctantly accepted his plea to attempted rape, partly to spare the victim from giving evidence.

At the Old Bailey in March 1983, George was jailed for two and half years and given an extra three months for breaching the previous suspended sentence."

Nice bloke eh?

See: Barry George raped me by my mum's door, then said sorry

 

[rvlvr]

JMO but that sounds like quite a sophisticated alarm system by the standards of the day. Presumably police could’ve worked out to the minute exactly how much time she’d spent at the GA house over whatever period of time the system retained the relevant data.

Thinking a bit more about the alarm system, it’s often argued (not unreasonably) that surely a skilled assassin would’ve waited until she’d opened the front door and stepped into the house, before forcing her further inside and killing her away from view. But the alarm box was visible from the street - pictured here - so it wasn’t a secret that the house was alarmed. In this scenario the killer would’ve needed to disable the alarm or risk it going off, possibly before he’d even fled through the front gate.

It’s likely, IMO, that the witnesses RH and GUB would’ve acted differently had an alarm been blaring, and subsequently her body probably would’ve been found sooner. Perhaps her killer, whether by luck or judgment, actually timed it just right - she reaches her doorstep, placing her as far from the street as it’s possible to be, but she hasn’t yet triggered any alarm sensors by opening the front door.

 

[SteveH]

Let's delve a bit into my doubts about the statements of RH and GUB. The nagging question is: did they see the same man?

GUB, who lived on Gowan Avenue 30, said:



RH, inhabiting then the number 30 on Gowan Avenue, stated:



GUB was adamant his sighting was no later than 11:29, while RH estimated the time to be a few minutes later.

Do you see where the problem is? If not look at the map I attached. We have the location of JDs house marked there in red, GUB in blue and RH in green. The blue arrow on the pavement shows the direction in which the man seen by witnesses moved.
See the problem now?

RH, who saw the man leaving Jill's property, stated he saw him walking briskly. GUB, who lived exactly vis a vis to RH saw the man first running, then slowing down to walk.

The problem is gentlemen lived exactly vis a vis. There is no room for the perpetrator to start walking, then running and then slow down to walk.

What is more, GUB stated he spotted the man running fast towards him when he exited his house and then the man slowed down to walk when he heard the cling of GUB's front gate. These front gardens on Gowan Avenue are tiny, sure, but still, between exiting home and reaching that gate multiple seconds passed. That's enough for a running man to cover a lot of metres. There is no way this man could exit Jill's gate, run for five seconds and still be facing GUB. He would be away from him and turned with his back to our witness. Anything else is a physical impossibility.

<Modsnipped- bickering/personalizing>

From Mike Burke's summary of the trial (which he attended with BG's sister Michelle) from his book Mike's Story: The Battle To Clear Barry George of the Jill Dando Murder (Mike is BG's uncle):

"Jeffrey Uphill-Brown described how he came out of his house across the road from Jill's and saw a man jogging away...He had a look at his face as he looked back. He estimated the distance from the man at that stage was about the length of a cricket pitch." p51

Interestingly postman Terry Griffith saw a man at about 10 am "who he thought might be acting suspicious. He thought he might be going to 'nick' something from his barrow. As he had witnessed something Terry was taken off his round for six weeks. Then on his first day back a man approached him talking about Jill Dando and saying he had just seen somebody who might be her killer....At the ID parade Terry failed to identify the man he first saw [ie on the day of the murder], but he picked Barry George as the second [ie six weeks later]."p50

It is classic offender behaviour to meddle in a crime investigation and try to deflect attention away from themselves - not very bright idea though! See also BG's crude attempts to create an alibi.

Mike's Story - Barry george & the Jill Dando Murder

This is the true and dramatic account of one man's quest for justice in helping to overturn the conviction of Barry George, who had been charged with the murder of BBC TV presenter and newsreader Jill Dando. It is a personal story and relates to the family and personal problems involved in...

www.google.co.uk

I have just seen a recent (16 August) article from the Daily Star (yipes!)

"Four out of ten people have become digital detectives to try to crack unsolved crimes like the Jill Dando murder or Lord Lucan disappearance, a poll found.

Researchers found 44% of people have turned themselves into cops like TV detectives Vera and Morse and used digital databases to try and crack major cases....

The single most investigated case is Jack The Ripper with 59 per cent of digital detectives probing the murders of his seven victims - all prostitutes - in the Whitechapel area of London in 1888.

A further 40% have probed the unsolved murder of Crimewatch presenter Jill Dando who was shot dead aged 37 outside her London home in 1999.

Some 37% have tried to crack the mystery surrounding the disappearance of Lord Lucan, who was aged 39, in 1974 when he vanished on the same night his children’s nanny Sandra Rivett was murdered at his Belgravia home.

He hasn’t been seen since but was declared dead in 1999.

A quarter - 25% - have investigated online the 1986 disappearance of estate agent Suzy Lamplugh and another 24% the disappearance of chef Claudia Lawrence in 2009."

MSN

 

[Professor Moriarty]

<modsnipped- bickering>

From Mike Burke's summary of the trial (which he attended with BG's sister Michelle) from his book Mike's Story: The Battle To Clear Barry George of the Jill Dando Murder (Mike is BG's uncle):

"Jeffrey Uphill-Brown described how he came out of his house across the road from Jill's and saw a man jogging away...He had a look at his face as he looked back. He estimated the distance from the man at that stage was about the length of a cricket pitch." p51

Interestingly postman Terry Griffith saw a man at about 10 am "who he thought might be acting suspicious. He thought he might be going to 'nick' something from his barrow. As he had witnessed something Terry was taken off his round for six weeks. Then on his first day back a man approached him talking about Jill Dando and saying he had just seen somebody who might be her killer....At the ID parade Terry failed to identify the man he first saw [ie on the day of the murder], but he picked Barry George as the second [ie six weeks later]."p50

It is classic offender behaviour to meddle in a crime investigation and try to deflect attention away from themselves - not very bright idea though! See also BG's crude attempts to create an alibi.

Mike's Story - Barry george & the Jill Dando Murder

This is the true and dramatic account of one man's quest for justice in helping to overturn the conviction of Barry George, who had been charged with the murder of BBC TV presenter and newsreader Jill Dando. It is a personal story and relates to the family and personal problems involved in...

www.google.co.uk

I have just seen a recent (16 August) article from the Daily Star (yipes!)

"Four out of ten people have become digital detectives to try to crack unsolved crimes like the Jill Dando murder or Lord Lucan disappearance, a poll found.

Researchers found 44% of people have turned themselves into cops like TV detectives Vera and Morse and used digital databases to try and crack major cases....

The single most investigated case is Jack The Ripper with 59 per cent of digital detectives probing the murders of his seven victims - all prostitutes - in the Whitechapel area of London in 1888.

A further 40% have probed the unsolved murder of Crimewatch presenter Jill Dando who was shot dead aged 37 outside her London home in 1999.

Some 37%U have tried to crack the mystery surrounding the disappearance of Lord Lucan, who was aged 39, in 1974 when he vanished on the same night his children’s nanny Sandra Rivett was murdered at his Belgravia home.

He hasn’t been seen since but was declared dead in 1999.

A quarter - 25% - have investigated online the 1986 disappearance of estate agent Suzy Lamplugh and another 24% the disappearance of chef Claudia Lawrence in 2009."

MSN

Understandably, the police don't release all the information they have. Perhaps, for very cold cases, they should release more, provided that it wouldn't compromise their investigation or a prosecution. Releasing a bit more might help someone to help the police. For example, sometimes they have DNA, but they don't usually say what it says about the ethnicity of the criminal. (They do sometimes.) In the case of the murder of Alan Wood (Lound, Lincolnshire), the police have produced appeals in Eastern European languages. Does that mean they know the ethnicity of the murderer? If so, why not say so?

 

[Kasparthecat1]

I'm going to watch it again as he talks about BGs IQ at one point. I want to make sure I didn't mishear first time around. I think he puts his IQ higher than I thought but I want to make sure I haven't got it wrong.

I rewatched but I didn't hear any reference to IQ. Mind you, the presenter has such a soothing voice I may well have nodded off in parts.

 

[davidt]

I rewatched but I didn't hear any reference to IQ. Mind you, the presenter has such a soothing voice I may well have nodded off in parts.

Yep, concentrating and listening to that voice can send you off to sleep!

 

[Dave32]

I’ve also been reading Brian Cathcart’s book ‘Jill Dando: Her Life and Death’. I really like contemporaneous accounts of crimes, this one came out shortly after BG’s first trial and is well researched and written.

I’d long wondered when and where the photo of George with his ‘gun’ was taken, given how dated everything looks. I’d always assumed it was very likely to have been at Stanhope Gardens in Kensington, where George stayed in the mid-1980s after being released from prison, where it’s said he would “regularly dress in combat gear and carry [his] gun around the hotel.”

His behaviour around this time was definitely unsettling, but I’ve always found it curious that the prosecution couldn’t call upon anyone to attest that George had possessed a gun - imitation or otherwise - after this period, and certainly not at any point in the run up to Jill Dando’s murder. This passage in Cathcart’s book makes it clear as to why:



The weight that even today is placed on this photograph as ‘evidence’ really is remarkable.

I was curious to see if Dobbins was called as a witness in BG's trial. He apparently told the court that BG once came into his flat, pulled a gun, and "discharged a shot". I don't know if that means it was just a blank, or if it was a real gun. Dobbins had depression and hanged himself in 2001 a few weeks after BG was convicted.

 

[rvlvr]

Yeah, it’s very sad what happened to him. No idea if it was linked to the case but it wouldn’t be surprising - another witness, one of the women from HAFAD, had a nervous breakdown after the first trial. It’s easy to forget the toll a case like this will take on so many ordinary people.