UK UK - Jill Dando, 37, Fulham, London, 26 Apr 1999

[Cherwell]

The two main arguments against a contract killing are that none would know where she was going to be, and that there is simply no evidence for one. The motives, employer and existence of such a person are all entirely conjectural. This is before you even get to considering whether she was noteworthy enough to be a target or whether how she was killed looks planned.

The Guardian piece addresses all of this.

 

[WestLondoner]

The Guardian piece addresses all of this.

It doesn't IMO. It is remarkably poor even by Guardian standards.

 

[Cherwell]

I thought it all sounded feasible. More so than any other theory.

 

[dotr]

Apologies if this has been posted before.

A PHONE HACKING HIT? How Jill Dando was Tracked to her Doorstep

Thanks for the link, just remembered this bit.
''In 1999, Scotland Yard investigated evidence that someone purporting to be her brother tried to access personal details from utility companies three months before the BBC presenter was killed.

Operation Oxborough came to the conclusion this was most likely the result of tabloid journalists trying to track down her new address after Dando announced her engagement to Alan Farthing.

Byline Times can reveal…. voice mail interception is the most likely way Dando was targeted by her killer.''

 

[WestLondoner]

I thought it all sounded feasible. More so than any other theory.

The trouble with it is that despite all the "could haves" and "might haves" there is literally not a shred of evidence for any Serbian hit man. It's a bit like the fanciful theories about Jack the Ripper. It's easy to posit hypotheses about who this might have been, but nobody can ever place their suspect at the scene of any of the killings.

 

[Ljh21]

How did Woffinden know what happened to Jill that morning, that the assailant grabbed her from behind. held her and forced her to the ground - where did he get this information from or is it just guesswork on his behalf? He could have simply held the gun to her head and told her to kneel down. Also what did happen to Jill's coat - did the police check it for any possible DNA, hairs, fibres, etc.?

Also, if she was shot when her face was almost touching the tiled step of the porch, wouldn't Jill have slumped head-first onto the step after she had been shot? This seems at odds with what the first two people on the scene saw.

Jill Dando murder: What woman who found BBC presenter noticed

Helen Doble, the first person to come across Jill's body, said:

"At first it was difficult, in the first few seconds, to realise it was actually Jill and she was actually in that position. She was on her doorstep leaning against her front door.

She had changed colour, there was a lot of blood loss and it was clear to me that she was dead. I looked around and there was nobody else in the street and I quickly got my phone out to call the emergency services."

Then we have Vida Saunders account:

Netflix airs new documentary 23 years on from murder of Jill Dando

Much-loved BBC Personality of the Year, Jill Dando, 37, was killed outside her own front door in Fulham, London by a single gun shot to the head in April 1999.

www.dailymail.co.uk

'Mrs Saunders said:

In those days much of the white painted Victorian frontage of 29 Gowan Avenue was screened from the street by a privet hedge and a small tree. 'But what I saw as soon as we stepped through the front gate hit me like a physical blow.'

What she saw was the body of Dando, 37, killed only minutes earlier outside her own front door by a single gunshot to the head. Jill's body was lying at such an odd angle,' she recalled. 'She looked like she had collapsed on the spot. The back of her head was against the front door and her chest was facing back out towards the pavement.

'She was in a pool of blood and I noticed her lips were blue and there were some small drips of blood running from her nose. It was such a disturbing image. I think we knew immediately she was critically injured. She was still clutching a set of keys in one hand, probably her door keys or possibly her car keys. The handles of her handbag were over the other arm and her mobile phone was inside, ringing constantly.'

So Jill wasn't found lying face down on the step, the back of her head was against the door and facing back out towards the pavement. Is it possible that Jill could have still have been conscious for a minute or two after she had been shot and had managed to prop herself against the door?

Also, why didn't the next-door neighbour RH hear Jill's mobile phone ringing? He said he heard her scream and the click of the gate, but no mention of her phone ringing at all?

 

[Inspector Evans]

Yes, very interesting. A lot in this case depends on whether you think BG or someone got very lucky on the day or whether you think whoever it was knew Jill would be coming. Neither can be ruled out entirely. For me the fact this happened at a place where she wasn't living and rarely visited does raise a valid question of whether someone knew she would be there and at what sort of time. We don't know the motive. Was it a murder pure and simple, or a robbery or attempted assault gone wrong? It happened so quickly I tend to favour the idea murder was always the intention.

Don't think there's any evidence how long this person was hiding outside. How easy would it have been to hide there for an extended period without being seen?

The next door neighbour Richard Hughes testified in court in June 2001 that she came back to collect post and other admin on a Monday morning most weeks so if you were going to bump into her around her house that was the day of the week when most likely and so it occurred sadly.

Only complication to that is hadn't she been filming the previous week in Dublin or another place outside the U.K so not sure how in those times anyone outside of her inner circle would be aware of that without social media to follow her on.

Edit: I walked down Gowan Avenue to go to a Fulham game a few years ago. Her house is close to the junction corner so very feasible you could've linger around the main road (there's a School right opposite) and keep watch on any car arriving by her then address. Then cross and be outside her gate within 20 seconds pretty much.

Was quite errie walking past it and seeing how close the porch was to the pavement, barely 10 yards to the other side of the road so the killer got very lucky no one else was walking past at that time as they simply wouldn't have missed what was going on.

 

[Inspector Evans]

A perplexing case, to be sure. Either a well orchestrated “hit” arranged by someone who had a good reason for wanting her dead or just a deranged “fan” who just happened to find her there when he did. There is no obvious motive for someone with the wherewithal to arrange such a hired hit. But, it is not beyond the realm of possibilities. I am inclined to believe it was just a random obsessed fan and BG certainly fits the profile.

Still, in light of the very little time Jill spent at that flat and the randomness of her comings and goings, it would seem so improbable that he would just happen to be there with a gun when she arrived unless he either had some advanced knowledge that she would be there or he invested a great deal of time “laying in wait”. How would a stranger know when she would be there? Yet, waiting around in an urban setting should attract attention. I can not see how anyone could have spent any significant time, waiting for her to come or go, without someone noticing and later reporting it. It is unlikely, but possible, that he didn’t have to wait long or otherwise went unnoticed.

I always think it's interesting to go back and watch the initial Crimewatch appeal before the months went on and the leads became vague:

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This is still the moment though when minds would be fresh on who was seen around Gowan Avenue that morning and as you can see from the YT there were a few people lingering around:

10am- Postman who delivers mail to Jill Dando address says he turns back and a well dressed male standing across the street is staring right at the house (probably to see if she opens up the door).

Shortly afterwards inspector gives ranger rover a parking ticket but person is inside but wouldn't say that's a huge lead.

10.40am window cleaner opposite Jill Dando sees well dressed man lingering around 29 Gowan Ave.

Just going by that someone was around her property for a good 40 minutes and then she turned up 20 minutes later.

Not sure what was said in court two years later but clearly none of them identified the person they saw as Barry George? Indeed window cleaner said the person had blonde hair!

Most interesting is where did the person then go to disappear if someone else then came into the area to commit the murder? I presume the Met discounted any two men theory when they arrested BG and never really looked into it again? There are loads of side roads in that area so someone else could've parked well away from the scene, met the assailant and then drove off undetected through plenty of side roads before hitting a road with some CCTV.

Man seen in Gowan Avenue at 11am from another witness and also a range rover parked on the corner with Munster Road which was spotted a few times that morning but I presume that was the vehicle that was appealed for in the weeks after and eventually discounted?

Final eye witness from this video had a man spotted on corner of Gowan/Munster at 11.29am ish. Jill Dando shot a minute or so later...

In the near 26 years since we've had all sorts of theories and apparent witnesses but these were the initial ones a few weeks later from people who were actually living in the road or nearby.

Edit: Apologies with YT not working on here. It works if you go into YT and type in Crimewatch UK May 1999. Well worth a watch.

 

[CSIAngus]

Why the Fayads got involved in the investigation is a red flag to me. I want to hear more about that given the Jimmy Savile scale of the accusations now about the Fayads. Did Jill Dando know about the abuse within the Harrods empire? I wouldn't be surprised if Met Officer silence had been bought by Al Fayad. What would he have done to keep it out of the tabloids?

 

[TheRockingRev]

There are higher powers involved in all this (I know that sounds dramatic!) JD did have information regarding paedophilia and individuals at the BBC, individuals who were also linked to other people in high positions. She wasn't a investigative reporter, but it doesn't mean she didn't hear things. The fact is it was a very open secret at the BBC - many chose to look the other way in order to protect their careers. Jill didn't. She cared and wasn't afraid. It ended up costing her. Don't think it happens? Just look into the Geoffrey Dickens files - they disappeared. Look at Thatcher who knew of the sexual interests of some of her cabinet and did nothing.
Not long before JD was shot an infamous sexual abuser was shot dead on his doorstep. It's been blamed on local vigilantes - the only thing is he was also publicly going to release the names of people in high up positions!

 

[WestLondoner]

It's an interesting angle, but for me the problem with it is that there are never any consequences of these exposures except sometimes for the PDF files themselves. So Jonathan King, Stuart Hall, Rolf Harris, Dave Lee Travis, Huw Edwards and Chris Denning all faced charges and were found guilty, but Jimmy Savile and John Peel died before it became completely public, while Russell Brand, Tim Westwood and Paul Gambaccini have been accused and investigated, but never charged with anything (the "case" against the latter appears to be 100% unsubstantiated, even by rumour).

What they all have in common is that the BBC knew all about their alleged behaviour for decades in some cases, did absolutely Ridley Scott about it, and when it all came out, nobody at the BBC was sacked for having overlooked it.

Given this, I sort of wonder who would bother to have JD killed to keep this quiet. If she had gone to her bosses and said I have information on Jimmy Savile, he wouldn't have been exposed; she'd have been told to shut up if she wanted to keep her job.

 

[TheRockingRev]

It's an interesting angle, but for me the problem with it is that there are never any consequences of these exposures except sometimes for the PDF files themselves. So Jonathan King, Stuart Hall, Rolf Harris, Dave Lee Travis, Huw Edwards and Chris Denning all faced charges and were found guilty, but Jimmy Savile and John Peel died before it became completely public, while Russell Brand, Tim Westwood and Paul Gambaccini have been accused and investigated, but never charged with anything (the "case" against the latter appears to be 100% unsubstantiated, even by rumour).

What they all have in common is that the BBC knew all about their alleged behaviour for decades in some cases, did absolutely Ridley Scott about it, and when it all came out, nobody at the BBC was sacked for having overlooked it.

Given this, I sort of wonder who would bother to have JD killed to keep this quiet. If she had gone to her bosses and said I have information on Jimmy Savile, he wouldn't have been exposed; she'd have been told to shut up if she wanted to keep her job.

It's not necessarily the celebs who would've been the problem, often they're the public scapegoats, more those in positions of power. Parliament, the Justice system, and even the Royals (look at the stories regarding Lord Mountbatten) have been riddled with this scum. We all think it could've been Savile she had info on - but what if it was the people above Savile, the ones who allowed him to operate and carry on. If you're high up at the Beeb, or connected to it, the chances are you would have that common interest with people in Parliament, the Justice system etc. These things, particularly in the 60's and 70's, were highly organised rings. You only have to look at what was happening at children's homes back then to see that it's all fact.
If she had information on someone out of the limelight it would've cast a shadow over society and bought down a whole pile of cards of this filth with some very prominent and important names.

 

[RichardKimble]

It's not necessarily the celebs who would've been the problem, often they're the public scapegoats, more those in positions of power. Parliament, the Justice system, and even the Royals (look at the stories regarding Lord Mountbatten) have been riddled with this scum. We all think it could've been Savile she had info on - but what if it was the people above Savile, the ones who allowed him to operate and carry on. If you're high up at the Beeb, or connected to it, the chances are you would have that common interest with people in Parliament, the Justice system etc. These things, particularly in the 60's and 70's, were highly organised rings. You only have to look at what was happening at children's homes back then to see that it's all fact.
If she had information on someone out of the limelight it would've cast a shadow over society and bought down a whole pile of cards of this filth with some very prominent and important names.

Can't see it myself, look at the Jeremy Thorpe affair, some one hired to kill his ex lover ends up shooting a dog, seriously!

 

[StillDiggin]

Bombshell witness sheds new light on death of TV star

The van driver was driving nearby soon after the Crimewatch host, 37, was shot dead at her home when a man in a dark suit sprinted in front of his Ford Transit without looking

www.mirror.co.uk

 

[CocktailQueen]

Not convinced.

It was probably just an arrogant man in suit in a hurry. There are plenty of them about. They’re just wankers but most likely not killers.

If you were an assassin who could kill quickly and precisely, would you really dart in front of a van? No, you’d just walk away like a normal person.

 

[forensicswannabe]

I agree CocktailQueen I have watched so many documentaries on this case and read so much on it and from Nick Ross and I am in agreement with him that Barry George did likely do this he escape justice once so realistically he wont ever be done again for it but I strongly believe he is the killer of Jill the evidence really does strongly suggest someone like Barry and if you look at his own past History it just all adds up.

 

[Inspector Evans]

Not convinced.

It was probably just an arrogant man in suit in a hurry. There are plenty of them about. They’re just wankers but most likely not killers.

If you were an assassin who could kill quickly and precisely, would you really dart in front of a van? No, you’d just walk away like a normal person.

Think I said this a year ago but it is striking watching the Crimewatch appeal (which is referenced in the Mirror article) and how different it all is to how the enquiry eventually progressed in early 2000 and the subsequent arrest.

These witness accounts were all very fresh given that went out less than a month after the murder to all the recollections now so I'm sure of all the apparent suspicious activity on that street there's at least one person spotted there who'd have some connection to what happened.

None of those in the Crimewatch reconstruction look much like Barry George anyway.....

 

[TheRockingRev]

I agree CocktailQueen I have watched so many documentaries on this case and read so much on it and from Nick Ross and I am in agreement with him that Barry George did likely do this he escape justice once so realistically he wont ever be done again for it but I strongly believe he is the killer of Jill the evidence really does strongly suggest someone like Barry and if you look at his own past History it just all adds up.

Yep - but just because you have done nefarious things in the past it doesn't mean you go onto murder. This just adds to the idea of fitting a crime to a person, not the person to a crime.

The biggest issue I have is that Jill wasn't known to be at her house at that time. I can't believe that Barry George was just cruising the neighbourhood with a gun, in broad daylight, waiting for her. If that's the case then someone would've clocked him as he would've been wandering for a while (and I don't think he was hiding in her front garden either - someone would've seen him) and his appearance is distinctive - he has a beard, which would've been clocked by someone.

With the random time that she returned home, IMO it had to be someone who knew that she was returning home that morning, that links it to someone who knew her/had inside knowledge of her.

BG was a very convenient and likely person to pin this on. The police seem like their doing their job, the public feel happy and sage, and an 'odd-ball' is off the street. A win-win.

Whoever really killed her wasn't a serial killer - hers was a precise crime and victim, so after BG was locked-up the police didn't need to fear that they would be fed-faced if a string of other door-step shootings took place.

 

[Kasparthecat1]

 

[Kasparthecat1]

That's him above, at around the time of JD's murder. He has a bit of a beard, but not a particularly noticeable one. He was relatively slim then, too, and capable of being smartly dressed (I seem to recall he bought a designer jacket/coat for his wedding).

I haven't seen the Crimewatch reconstruction for a while (must do that). I'm convinced it was George. He was likely in the area at the time, had form for stalking and photographing women from behind, had form for violence towards women.

He was a very dangerous man. I've never been convinced by the "low IQ" argument. I think it's perfectly possible that he was cruising the area, came upon Jill, walked up behind her with his gun and shot. It may have been an accident, even.