UK UK - Jill Dando, 37, Fulham, London, 26 Apr 1999

[rvlvr]

The point isn’t that Barry George made a scene at HAFAD in order to create an alibi. It’s that he made a scene at HAFAD because making a scene is what Barry George usually did, wherever he went.

Later, when it dawned on him that he might become a suspect, he (understandably) wanted to know exactly what time he was at HAFAD. As he did then become a suspect, I’d say this was quite prescient. I didn’t say it was deliberately prescient.

Of course, when police finally got around to interviewing George and asked him where he was on the day of the murder, what did he initially tell them? ‘I was at home alone all morning.’ Literally the worst alibi in the book. The sort of thing only a bonafide idiot like Barry George would pick.

 

[Professor Moriarty]

AF's house, where Jill lived, was in Chiswick, 40 minutes from Gowan Avenue. Broadcasting House is 30 minutes from Govan Avenue AND Gowan Avenue is not on the route from Chiswick to the BBC headquarters. Very much not.



Farthing was and is a gynecologist, already renowned at that time. He did not work from home, he worked in a hospital.

AA route planner says 16 minutes from 4 Bedford Close Chiswick to Jill Dando's house.

Consultants often write reports, letters to GPs, papers etc from home. I don't know if AF did, but it would not be unusual.

 

[davidt]

Again (and I actually have internet proof for this!) Richard Hughes said in court in July 2001 that Jill came back regularly to Gowan Ave. on a Monday to check post/admin.

As much as she was travelling for work and more regularly in Chiswick with Alan Farthing she couldn't just leave her house unoccupied for months as she need to keep it up to standard to complete the sale with it on the market before the year was out.

So Richard Hughes knew, probably some other neighbours on her street knew on account of seeing her car parked, her agent knew, Alan Farthing knew and that was her inner circle who knew more than likely she'd be home at some point that Monday. Who else knew as if you crack that it would lead to a credible suspect.

Or perhaps it was one of the inner circle for whatever reason wanted her dead. I did get an excitable PM from a poster on here years ago who was adamant it was one of those individuals listed above who killed her which was interesting theory to read and to keep an open mind on.

Edit; I absolutely think at least one person was waiting for her as I think some of the sightings around Gowan Avenue that morning were credible. Problem is joining the dots as to who actually did the killing as they weren't all just hanging around for minutes on end to admire the road.

Somehow they knew she was probably coming back so I reckon it was a case of stalking out property in previous weeks and finding the car she drove and then noting a couple of Mondays it was outside the property. This could've been done in the March for instance as she was away filming Holiday for most of April I think.

Just to repeat her property was not in some enclosed cul-de-sac. You could walk up and down Gowan Avenue freely every single day in March/ April 1999 if the perps had the time so you could build up a pattern of which day and which time of day she was back and that would be then the period of day/week you then turn up to commit the crime.

That's fair enough. It's actually Jill's agent on the Netflix documentary that says it wasn't a routine visit. I have read before that she did visit on Mondays but just perhaps she didn't originally intend to visit that particular monday? It's always hard reading different people's accounts as they themselves may have misunderstood to begin with.

I know you said you have been on that street whereas I've just seen photos of it. You'll have a better perspective on it than me. It does seem only two things can really have happened. Either someone was waiting for her or someone just happened to pass at the precise time she arrived. I think it is pretty much definite that whoever did this must have been very close to the property at the time. There simply wasn't time to approach from any distance. If they were waiting for her, looking at the pictures I don't see where they can have hid for any length of time. Would you agree? You made the point, and I did some time ago, that this was a property on a street with people constantly around. Not somewhere isolated or secluded.

For me it feels like if someone was waiting, they knew she was coming and knew pretty much the time she would arrive. The alternative is that someone just happened to be in the right place at the right time. I think also the dynamic of the shooting changes depending on which scenario is correct. If someone was waiting it would be premeditated and planned and they would be prepared ready to act. Escape route ready etc. If someone was passing just as she turned up it's a bit different. There was only the tiniest window of opportunity to carry out the act. No time to plan or think. Just a few moments when she got out of the car and took the few steps to her front door. In those seconds deciding to kill her and having no time to survey the surroundings or who's about etc. All that and being in the right place at the right time whilst just happening to have a gun on you.

 

[TheRockingRev]

It has crossed my mind that just possibly BG or someone else went out that day with the intention of shooting someone. Perhaps Jill was just the unfortunate victim of a random killing and wasn't targeted at all specifically. She just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. We do tend to think she aas killed because she was targeted and well known but just possibly she was just a random victim.

If someone is wanting to do that though, they want to for a reason. Usually to be noticed - to commit a crime like that just for the sheer sake of it, but not gain any notoriety is very rare and unlikely that you would do it in a suburban street. Usually with things like this they tend to be a shooting spree.

 

[Inspector Evans]

That's fair enough. It's actually Jill's agent on the Netflix documentary that says it wasn't a routine visit. I have read before that she did visit on Mondays but just perhaps she didn't originally intend to visit that particular monday? It's always hard reading different people's accounts as they themselves may have misunderstood to begin with.

I know you said you have been on that street whereas I've just seen photos of it. You'll have a better perspective on it than me. It does seem only two things can really have happened. Either someone was waiting for her or someone just happened to pass at the precise time she arrived. I think it is pretty much definite that whoever did this must have been very close to the property at the time. There simply wasn't time to approach from any distance. If they were waiting for her, looking at the pictures I don't see where they can have hid for any length of time. Would you agree? You made the point, and I did some time ago, that this was a property on a street with people constantly around. Not somewhere isolated or secluded.

For me it feels like if someone was waiting, they knew she was coming and knew pretty much the time she would arrive. The alternative is that someone just happened to be in the right place at the right time. I think also the dynamic of the shooting changes depending on which scenario is correct. If someone was waiting it would be premeditated and planned and they would be prepared ready to act. Escape route ready etc. If someone was passing just as she turned up it's a bit different. There was only the tiniest window of opportunity to carry out the act. No time to plan or think. Just a few moments when she got out of the car and took the few steps to her front door. In those seconds deciding to kill her and having no time to survey the surroundings or who's about etc. All that and being in the right place at the right time whilst just happening to have a gun on you.

Yes Gowan Avenue is a typical London residential street. Small pavement and as you walk past that house you're pretty much staring at the front door 10 yards away.

I spent a couple of seconds taking in the location and then quickly had to move to the side as a person was coming up the pavement so just shows how well the shooter did in avoiding detection as quite simply you wouldn't avoid the scene if the killer was coming out and closing the gate, Jill lying down would've been noticed.

Only difference with 1999 is apparently there was a small tree blocking some angle of the entrance. No tree when I walked past.

I think it was something as simple as the shooter on the far street corner by junction of Munster Road (as could still clearly see 29 Gowan Avenue from that side) had knowledge of the vehicle she drove, saw one turning into Gowan and I'D Jill and then had a quick look and saw there was no one walking up or down the street calculated that they had roughly a minute to commit the crime if Jill quickly got out of her car which she did.

With all the witness IDs that morning there was clearly at least one person there that day waiting around expecting her to return at some point that morning. How they knew that I'm not sure but a tip off and they weren't moving anymore than 50 yards from the street.

The luck was then walking down in the other direction and not being ID by anyone if there was a lack of people in GA at that moment in the day.

I was there on a Saturday afternoon and passed 4-5 other day walking down the road towards Fulham FC.

It's like many things. Full of adrenaline and you just commit the act although still to me it strikes more as a hit than a random getting completely carried away as there is still the aftermath to deal with to the shooting.

Nowadays BBC presenters live in scheduled resident apartment blocks. Surprise to me with Jill's primetime roles she wasn't already in somewhere more discreet even before imminently moving in with Alan Farthing but of course being gunned down on your own doorstep is so rare for all of the population security wouldn't have crossed her mind.

 

[Inspector Evans]

If someone is wanting to do that though, they want to for a reason. Usually to be noticed - to commit a crime like that just for the sheer sake of it, but not gain any notoriety is very rare and unlikely that you would do it in a suburban street. Usually with things like this they tend to be a shooting spree.

I've always wondered what would've happened if someone else had come up a minute or so after the shooting and confronted the killer. Would they have been shot aswell? Or case of killer just head down, get passed and try and catch me if you can.

They weren't wearing any disguise by the court dialogue so that's the strange element, not really covering up a face knowing down the street someone could spot you and remember your appearance for a few months.

 

[Yellowbelly]

A well modified smooth bore blank firer is more likely than not to work at very close range. I agree with that. But so is a knife or an axe. There's no way a professional gunman would choose to use any of these things - except in a scenario where they are unable to get hold of anything else. But that undermines the whole idea of this being a professional. This is a weapon that screams amateur opportunism i.e. it being the only firearm the attacker ever owned.

There's also the modified cartridge, though. How many people would know how to do that, let alone why you might want to. The modified cartridge points towards somebody who was well versed in firearms, not some random amateur.

 

[Hexe]

They weren't wearing any disguise by the court dialogue so that's the strange element, not really covering up a face knowing down the street someone could spot you and remember your appearance for a few months.

The thing is this man had really unremarkable face. Many similar looking men are roaming the streets of London.

 

[Professor Moriarty]

There's also the modified cartridge, though. How many people would know how to do that, let alone why you might want to. The modified cartridge points towards somebody who was well versed in firearms, not some random amateur.

There are "gun nuts" who read gun magazines etc and know a lot about guns only in a theoretical sense. (Thousands and thousands of them in the USA.) If you read those magazines, maybe attend events, you might come across someone who would supply the modified gun and cartridges. I've seen people say that BG wouldn't have the skills or equipment to modify guns or ammunition. Of course, he wouldn't, but someone like him would not need to. Someone like him would only need to know someone with the skills or equipment. A low level gun nut might answer an advert in a gun magazine, get chatting to someone at an event.........Criminals get hold of guns, often modified. They might have no expertise at all. They don't need it. All they need is to know someone.

 

[Inspector Evans]

The thing is this man had really unremarkable face. Many similar looking men are roaming the streets of London.

I think you'd remember the face of the assassin for eternity if they walked right past you and then you glanced at the house they came from and saw Jill Dando lying prone on the porch.

That is the luck the killer had and seemingly 999 wasn't contacted for another ten minutes so it seemingly was a quiet part of the day for Gowan Avenue coming and goings.

 

[CSIAngus]

At the time of the murder, phone hacking of celebrities was rife in the UK and not difficult to do. That JD planned to travel to Gowan Avenue that day could quite easily have been picked up from her mobile phone if it had been hacked. Police corruption and collusion with private investigators and journalists was a cancer at the heart of law enforcement in London throughout this period.

What I have always found strange is why Mohamed Al Fayed would get involved in this case, having his security chief offer bribes for information about the investigation. Given what we now know about his vast history of sexual offending, could he have had a motive for having her silenced? Did she know or was even a victim of his? Could he have arranged the hiring of a Serbian hitman?

Al Fayed security chief 'corrupted' Jill Dando probe by 'bribing bent detective'

It comes amid claims Al Fayed also used John Macnamara, an ex-Met Police chief, to bribe police officers and threaten women he had allegedly attacked

www.mirror.co.uk

 

[Professor Moriarty]

At the time of the murder, phone hacking of celebrities was rife in the UK and not difficult to do. That JD planned to travel to Gowan Avenue that day could quite easily have been picked up from her mobile phone if it had been hacked. Police corruption and collusion with private investigators and journalists was a cancer at the heart of law enforcement in London throughout this period.

What I have always found strange is why Mohamed Al Fayed would get involved in this case, having his security chief offer bribes for information about the investigation. Given what we now know about his vast history of sexual offending, could he have had a motive for having her silenced? Did she know or was even a victim of his? Could he have arranged the hiring of a Serbian hitman?

Al Fayed security chief 'corrupted' Jill Dando probe by 'bribing bent detective'

It comes amid claims Al Fayed also used John Macnamara, an ex-Met Police chief, to bribe police officers and threaten women he had allegedly attacked

www.mirror.co.uk

Wasn't phone hacking just about hacking voicemails? (I've seen some people talking as if hackers could listen into conversations, but I think it was just voicemails. So it only worked if someone (a) received a voicemail and (b) had not already listened to it and deleted it.

 

[davidt]

Wasn't phone hacking just about hacking voicemails? (I've seen some people talking as if hackers could listen into conversations, but I think it was just voicemails. So it only worked if someone (a) received a voicemail and (b) had not already listened to it and deleted it.

Just having a look and apparently the allegations did include claims of phone tapping as well as hacking. Here's one example from a solicitors update. Daily Mail Phone Hacking Claims Progress Through The Court - Taylor Hampton

 

[davidt]

I know this must have been covered somewhere but what is the prevailing theory with regard to the likelihood of the gunman having Jill's blood on him after the shooting? I'm thinking of BGs coat and the small amount of gunpowder residue found on it. I don't think it's ever been said any blood was found on it. Is it thought likely the killer would have blood on them or due to the nature of the shooting that wouldn't have happened?

 

[Hexe]

I think you'd remember the face of the assassin for eternity if they walked right past you and then you glanced at the house they came from and saw Jill Dando lying prone on the porch.

Sure. Bur it is not what happened.

Around 11:30 RH, the next door neighbour, looked from the upstairs window after hearing a scream and saw the man leaving Jill's property. Shortly after GUB, the vis a vis neighbour, standing on his front stair, witnesses a man running down Gowan Ave towards Fulham Palace Road. Both of the neighbours saw the man from some distance, he was not walking right past any of them. And none of the neighbours noticed Jill's body. Her body was found fifteen minutes later by her friend HD.

So both neighbours saw pretty unremarkable man, with no features standing out, who was just another passer-by for them at the moment of the sighting.

 

[rvlvr]

I think you'd remember the face of the assassin for eternity if they walked right past you and then you glanced at the house they came from and saw Jill Dando lying prone on the porch.

That is the luck the killer had and seemingly 999 wasn't contacted for another ten minutes so it seemingly was a quiet part of the day for Gowan Avenue coming and goings.

When Geoffrey Upfill-Brown, the neighbour who saw the killer at street level, died a few years ago his brother Thomas was reported to have said that "Geoffrey was the only person who could look someone in the eye and say they were the man running away from Jill Dando's house”.

Possibly some poetic licence on his brother’s part there but in BC’s book he goes over Geoffrey’s testimony in the first trial and it does make for interesting reading (page 263):

Neither Mayes nor Normanton nor the de Rosnays saw a mop of hair or a coat; in fact they all spoke of shortish hair and a suit. In conspicuous respects, therefore, the two sets of descriptions simply did not match. Pownall addressed this problem by suggesting when questioning the two [neighbours] that perhaps they were not well placed to describe or remember the person who fled the scene, and in one case he got the answer he wanted. Hughes freely admitted that when he looked out through the blinds of his upper window he had only a glance at the gunman and then only from the waist up. Upfill-Brown, however, gave a different account of himself when he was asked about his power to remember details two years on.

POWNALL (hoping for the answer no): Were you expecting to be able to recollect what you saw?
UPFILL-BROWN: Yes, very definitely, yes I was.
POWNALL: Why was that?
UPFILL-BROWN: Because of the manner in which he [the fleeing man] was behaving. He immediately attracted my attention and I watched him very carefully and made every mental note I could about his appearance and his clothing particularly.

Pownall hurried on to other things.

 

[rvlvr]

On guns, I definitely agree that George almost certainly lacked the skills and tools needed to modify a replica or deactivated gun.

Could he have sourced one? I think this is unlikely. George was a loner, he almost certainly didn’t have any criminal connections, as an epileptic he neither drank nor smoke and thus didn’t frequent the sorts of places one might maintain such relationships. Police certainly tried to establish if he’d got hold of a gun some other way and of course there was an offer of reward money for information, not to mention that the tabloid press would’ve paid out handsomely to anyone who recalled Barry George asking them to supply or modify a gun. But nothing was uncovered.

The other problem with the idea that George was walking the streets in possession of a firearm is that could this odd, Walter Mitty-type character have remained tight-lipped about having a gun on his person? He’d say and often do anything to impress practically anyone he met (not to mention that he apparently often came into contact with police), yet as far as I can tell no one after the late 1980s can recall George possessing, or even mentioning possessing, a ‘gun’. Even his ‘wife’, who - understandably - despised him, never to my knowledge made any mention of him possessing firearms during their marriage.

 

[davidt]

On guns, I definitely agree that George almost certainly lacked the skills and tools needed to modify a replica or deactivated gun.

Could he have sourced one? I think this is unlikely. George was a loner, he almost certainly didn’t have any criminal connections, as an epileptic he neither drank nor smoke and thus didn’t frequent the sorts of places one might maintain such relationships. Police certainly tried to establish if he’d got hold of a gun some other way and of course there was an offer of reward money for information, not to mention that the tabloid press would’ve paid out handsomely to anyone who recalled Barry George asking them to supply or modify a gun. But nothing was uncovered.

The other problem with the idea that George was walking the streets in possession of a firearm is that could this odd, Walter Mitty-type character have remained tight-lipped about having a gun on his person? He’d say and often do anything to impress practically anyone he met (not to mention that he apparently often came into contact with police), yet as far as I can tell no one after the late 1980s can recall George possessing, or even mentioning possessing, a ‘gun’. Even his ‘wife’, who - understandably - despised him, never to my knowledge made any mention of him possessing firearms during their marriage.

I think this neatly encapsulates the difficulties when it comes to trying to tie down anything to BG. We know about the photo of him with a gun. We know he's changed his story over that photo. He has given a story of what happened to that gun. I stand to be corrected but I think the person who claimed to have stolen it and later thrown it away has since passed away? So there's no way of verifying it. I don't think we have any idea if BG was capable of modifying guns and/or ammunition. No-one has ever come forward to say BG had possession of such a gun or ammunition at the time of the shooting. Of course that doesn't mean he didn't have one.

On the day of the shooting if it was BG did he just decide to carry a gun that day and got lucky or did he often carry a gun? There's no evidence as far as I am aware he ever carried one but can you rule it out?

As with most things BG related you have interesting information which might be valuable but seemingly always its quite vague and not particularly strong. He might have and might not have had a gun but there's nothing you can rely on. As with most things against BG it might point towards him as a suspect but it's never strong enough to have any degree of certainty over it.

 

[rvlvr]

Yes, David Dobbins sadly took his own life shortly after George’s first trial. So, in that regard he can’t be interrogated now on what he said regarding the gun, but he did tell this story to police in 2000 and AFAIK no evidence was found to suggest that he was lying. On the contrary, he was deemed a reliable enough witness that the information he shared with police and later the court regarding George’s very troubling behaviour during the 1980s played a part in helping to secure a conviction. From what I can ascertain he had no reason to lie to protect George, nor to help police. JMO but I think he was a perfectly credible witness.

 

[SteveH]

I might have a dekko at this if I get the time:

All about Jill : the life and death of Jill Dando : Smith, David James, 1956- : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

376 pages, 16 unnumbered pages of plates : 21 cm

archive.org

Has anyone read it?

In a 2002 interview with a reporter from the Belfast Telegraph author David James Smith said a few interesting things about Jill and her death:

"Gail Walker talks to David James Smith about his new book All About Jill: The Life and Death of Jill Dando
SO, who did bump off Jill Dando because I've just read your rather excellent book about the star and it's obvious you're not convinced it was Barry George either...

"Actually, I'm now more inclined to believe it was Barry George but, no, I wouldn't have convicted him on the evidence."

That's because, ahem, there was none, isn't it, which makes it kind of tricky. Ultimately that's what you say in All About Jill?...

"There is no smoking gun, no forensic evidence to link him to the scene. There is a tiny particle of firearm residue taken from his coat and that might have come from the scene but then again might not..."

The point is that if anyone, bar the police, could have turned up another suspect it would have to be Smith who has scrutinised every aspect of Dando's life.

Crucially, too, he discovered a woman with a private life fundamentally at variance with the public perception of her.

While fans loved her middle-class, girl-next-door, Christian sensibility (the Daily Mail adored Jill Dando), there was another darker, wilder and, in many ways, extraordinary, side to her.

Smith's book is a thoughtful, stylishly-written, classy job but it's kiss and tell-y all the same. The fact it's so well-crafted just makes you feel a bit less grubby for voraciously drinking in all the salacious details.

Put bluntly, Jill Dando worked her way through a lot of guys - and dumped on quite a few of them, too.

Then in 1996, while filming Holiday in South Africa, Jill met Simon Bassil, a ranger on a game reserve, and that proved the catalyst for finishing with Wheaton.

The following year she met Alan Farthing, a gynaecologist, and her fiance at the time of her death.

All of this has been well-documented but Smith also uncovered details of numerous other lovers, stretching back to when she first moved to London.

She had a number of partners, he writes, the margins often blurred, the dates overlapping. Her girlfriends didn't always know which were sexual relationships and which were not.

"She was not particularly secretive about her love life but she could be quite compartmentalised about what information she disclosed and to whom she disclosed it," observes Smith.

In 1992 in a letter to a friend Jill did mention a flirtation with Andrew Morton, the author of books about Diana, Princess of Wales. She said they had a "rather nice three months until he decided quite rightly that his family mattered to him."

Morton, however, later told Smith that Jill had exaggerated about what was an innocent friendship.

Smith also spoke to an author and journalist who wished to remain anonymous but had a brief fling with her in 1997. It was a relationship based on sporadic and short assignations; the most time they ever spent together was a couple of nights.

There was a man with a double-barrelled name and a home in Belgravia, who took Jill away on a country house weekend.

She had around a dozen dates with the author Michael Dobbs.

And there was another man, a doctor, whose company she enjoyed. They met up at a party, went back to Jill's and slept together for the one and only time...

Smith says the most shocking discovery for him was how the BBC had treated her.

Immediately prior to her death she'd been worried her career with the Beeb was on the slide yet after her murder they eulogised her. "Their hypocrisy was astounding. They let her down so badly and then had the nerve to claim her as a golden girl.""

Book Review: Opening up an untold chapter

Gail Walker talks to David James Smith about his new book All About Jill: The Life and Death of Jill Dando

www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk