UK UK - Jill Dando, 37, Fulham, London, 26 Apr 1999

[Novosti]

This is a very good analysis. It remains a very peculiar collection of ballistic facts but I think there are some reasonable conclusions we can make:
- The weapon and ammunition were non standard and subject to bespoke alteration on the individual items.
- The alteration process was amateur - the crimping for example was not done with the best tools for the job. This suggests a workshop without high quality equipment, but where the workman had a degree of skill and know-how in terms of how to acheive a workable result with sub-standard tools.
- The weapon and ammunition were highly likely altered in the UK - the particular alterations were specific to the challenges posed by the British legislative regime for handguns.
- The result would have been a very poor, unreliable weapon. But capable of lethal effect.

Together this points to garage-style small-scale workshop producing activated or reactivated weapons for the British criminal fraternity.

One further comment. The weirdest thing here is the smooth bore. Normally found in shotguns or weapons more than 150 years old. Or blank firer / starter guns that were never intended to be firearms. The most likely scenario seems like a conversion of a blank firer.

 

[sl77]

A bit long, this post, but earlier I was going over this bit from BC’s book (pages 159-162) on the gun and the round that was used to kill Jill Dando, thought it might be worth sharing.

On the cartridge:



On the gun:

I disagree with this line:

"By implication, then, this round was assembled by someone who did not have access to the machines employed by people who are putting together ammunition in any quantity."

Just because someone uses that method, does not mean they were forced to. They may have chosen to, to fool police.

 

[sl77]

The crimping of the cartridge is incredibly interesting, to me. I think @Hexe has talked before about the possibility some propellant had been removed from the round in order to reduce the sound of the shot. AIUI, to do this you’d first need to open up the cartridge, then afterwards crimp it back together.

Or, was the crimping done simply to misdirect and confuse?

And as for the gun itself, if you were acting out some violent sexual fantasy, why go to the bother / take the risk of fashioning / sourcing a working firearm when almost anyone would freeze with the barrel of a replica pointed at their head?

IMO, I think whoever had the expertise to modify the gun and possibly the round - or, whoever took the risk of sourcing a modified gun and round - went to Jill Dando’s doorstep that morning with the very clear intention of ending her life.

The part I have emboldened is exactly right.

However: assuming this was done to reduce the chances of people hearing the shot, wouldn't using a suppressor be simpler?

 

[Novosti]

I

I disagree with this line:

"By implication, then, this round was assembled by someone who did not have access to the machines employed by people who are putting together ammunition in any quantity."

Just because someone uses that method, does not mean they were forced to. They may have chosen to, to fool police.

Fool the police into thinking what? That you didn't have an up-to-date workshop? Very difficult to see any evidential rationale for doing this.

 

[sl77]

I

Fool the police into thinking what? That you didn't have an up-to-date workshop? Very difficult to see any evidential rationale for doing this.

Fool the police in to thinking it was a lone-nut.

You don't see the rationale for distracting the police from looking for a lone-nut, if it was committed by a professional?

 

[Professor Moriarty]

I think that, as with many cases on this site, we will never know the answer. No DNA, no finger prints, no CCTV of any value. No chance of a conviction.

 

[sl77]

I think that, as with many cases on this site, we will never know the answer. No DNA, no finger prints, no CCTV of any value. No chance of a conviction.

We won't if the police are adamant it was Barry George.

 

[Yellowbelly]

I think that, as with many cases on this site, we will never know the answer. No DNA, no finger prints, no CCTV of any value. No chance of a conviction.

There are only two ways now that there will ever be a conviction in this case. One is if somebody decides to confess. The other is if Jill Dando's clothing is subjected to forensic tests that exist today, but which didn't exist in 1999, in the hope of being able to pick up DNA traces from her killer.

 

[sl77]

There are only two ways now that there will ever be a conviction in this case. One is if somebody decides to confess. The other is if Jill Dando's clothing is subjected to forensic tests that exit today, but which didn't exist in 1999, in the hope of being able to pick up DNA traces from her killer.

They've not considered doing the tests?

 

[Novosti]

Fool the police in to thinking it was a lone-nut.

You don't see the rationale for distracting the police from looking for a lone-nut, if it was committed by a professional?

But I don't think that makes sense. If you were already using a smooth bore weapon why go to the awkward and risky trouble of crimping with a hammer yourself rather than a die, if you had access to the latter? I don’t think either scenario really points to a 'lone nut' doing the crimping himself. Rather it says something about the level of workshop selling the weapons.

 

[WestLondoner]

Surely the issue here is the disconnection between the bullet and the gun. The bullet looks like something complicated has been done to it, whereas the gun looks to have been a starting pistol, just about the simplest gun there is.

Information about how to turn this stuff into working weapons was not all that hard to find even in the 1990s. In the 1980s there was a martial arts shop off Shaftesbury Avenue called AtoZ that had a book section containing various guides to ninjitsu. Nearby in St Martin's Lane there was a shop called Motor Books which, despite the name, carried titles like "The Poor Man's James Bond" which gave quite detailed how-to advice on exactly this sort of thing. There were also titles called something like "How To Be A Hit Man" and "How to Kill" which were exactly what they sound like.

Motor Books also carried magazines for wannabe mercenaries, such as Soldier of Fortune and Gung Ho. Most of the readers would have been fantasists, of course, but I recall flipping through the latter and finding an article called "Doing In Dogs" which gave advice on unarmed combat with guard dogs, another about how to make a silencer out of a large plastic Coke bottle and duct tape, and so on. All useful stuff to people wanting to LARP as the SAS.

Helpfully, there is usually a list in magazines of back numbers you can order, with a summary of what's in each old issue. I'd be amazed if there was no book or magazine article about how to make a starting pistol fire actual rounds, and I'm sure I could have found one in the 1980s or 1990s had I set out to look.

 

[sl77]

Surely the issue here is the disconnection between the bullet and the gun. The bullet looks like something complicated has been done to it, whereas the gun looks to have been a starting pistol, just about the simplest gun there is.

Information about how to turn this stuff into working weapons was not all that hard to find even in the 1990s. In the 1980s there was a martial arts shop off Shaftesbury Avenue called AtoZ that had a book section containing various guides to ninjitsu. Nearby in St Martin's Lane there was a shop called Motor Books which, despite the name, carried titles like "The Poor Man's James Bond" which gave quite detailed how-to advice on exactly this sort of thing. There were also titles called something like "How To Be A Hit Man" and "How to Kill" which were exactly what they sound like.

Motor Books also carried magazines for wannabe mercenaries, such as Soldier of Fortune and Gung Ho. Most of the readers would have been fantasists, of course, but I recall flipping through the latter and finding an article called "Doing In Dogs" which gave advice on unarmed combat with guard dogs, another about how to make a silencer out of a large plastic Coke bottle and duct tape, and so on. All useful stuff to people wanting to LARP as the SAS.

Helpfully, there is usually a list in magazines of back numbers you can order, with a summary of what's in each old issue. I'd be amazed if there was no book or magazine article about how to make a starting pistol fire actual rounds, and I'm sure I could have found one in the 1980s or 1990s had I set out to look.

How can they know what the gun was, they only have the bullet/calibre?

Not an expert but surely a variety of guns could have been used with the same bullet?

 

[Yellowbelly]

How can they know what the gun was, they only have the bullet/calibre?

Not an expert but surely a variety of guns could have been used with the same bullet?

They know it was smooth bore from the ballistic evidence, and they know that the cartridge was a 9mm short. They also know that there were no commercial available firearms that meet that description. The claim that it was a converted starting pistol is supposition based on that. There are other sorts of converted firearms that it could have been.

 

[rvlvr]

But I don't think that makes sense. If you were already using a smooth bore weapon why go to the awkward and risky trouble of crimping with a hammer yourself rather than a die, if you had access to the latter? I don’t think either scenario really points to a 'lone nut' doing the crimping himself. Rather it says something about the level of workshop selling the weapons.

Interestingly, a firearms expert at the first trial seemed to suggest the cartridge wasn’t quite as unique to the UK as perhaps BC’s write up makes it seem (though it was clearly still very rare):

Made by Remington in the United States, the 9mm "short" bullet could have been one of "a relatively small amount" officially imported into Britain by Hull Cartridge Company in the past decade, Mr Pryor said.

But indentations, possibly made by a sharpened nail, had secured the bullet to the casing - a method used by former Eastern-bloc manufacturers of military ammunition.

Similar ammunition had been used in just 83 of several thousand unsolved gun crimes in the past 28 years, he concluded.

BBC News | UK | Dando fibre 'matched' with accused

 

[Novosti]

Interestingly, a firearms expert at the first trial seemed to suggest the cartridge wasn’t quite as unique to the UK as perhaps BC’s write up makes it seem (though it was clearly still very rare):

BBC News | UK | Dando fibre 'matched' with accused

I think something has been lost in reporting here - crimping with a hammer and nail would not be done by a factory manufacturer (whether Eastern Europe or elsewhere).

 

[TheRockingRev]

One further comment. The weirdest thing here is the smooth bore. Normally found in shotguns or weapons more than 150 years old. Or blank firer / starter guns that were never intended to be firearms. The most likely scenario seems like a conversion of a blank firer.

They know it was smooth bore from the ballistic evidence, and they know that the cartridge was a 9mm short. They also know that there were no commercial available firearms that meet that description. The claim that it was a converted starting pistol is supposition based on that. There are other sorts of converted firearms that it could have been.

Modified blank firers were one of the most used weapons in the criminal fraternity at the time. Easy to get hold - and fairly easy to adapt. But whoever did would've had to have a minor piece of skill and knowledge and tools. IMO I don't think BG did.

 

[TheRockingRev]

Surely the issue here is the disconnection between the bullet and the gun. The bullet looks like something complicated has been done to it, whereas the gun looks to have been a starting pistol, just about the simplest gun there is.

Information about how to turn this stuff into working weapons was not all that hard to find even in the 1990s. In the 1980s there was a martial arts shop off Shaftesbury Avenue called AtoZ that had a book section containing various guides to ninjitsu. Nearby in St Martin's Lane there was a shop called Motor Books which, despite the name, carried titles like "The Poor Man's James Bond" which gave quite detailed how-to advice on exactly this sort of thing. There were also titles called something like "How To Be A Hit Man" and "How to Kill" which were exactly what they sound like.

Motor Books also carried magazines for wannabe mercenaries, such as Soldier of Fortune and Gung Ho. Most of the readers would have been fantasists, of course, but I recall flipping through the latter and finding an article called "Doing In Dogs" which gave advice on unarmed combat with guard dogs, another about how to make a silencer out of a large plastic Coke bottle and duct tape, and so on. All useful stuff to people wanting to LARP as the SAS.

Helpfully, there is usually a list in magazines of back numbers you can order, with a summary of what's in each old issue. I'd be amazed if there was no book or magazine article about how to make a starting pistol fire actual rounds, and I'm sure I could have found one in the 1980s or 1990s had I set out to look.

This all makes sense, but I'm not sure if BG was capable though of putting all the bits together to come up with a working gun, ammunition etc.
The other thing perhaps is that for a man who, from the state of his house, never threw anything away - there has never been any report, IIRC, that say that magazines and books of this nature were found at his address - something you really would think the police would've found.
Oh, and before anyone says he would've got rid of them - you would've thought that the voyeuristic photos would've been binned too, but they were there.

 

[WestLondoner]

He was photographed posing with a gun that has never been found nor been disposed of legally. So he was certainly able to make some things disappear.

 

[Novosti]

Modified blank firers were one of the most used weapons in the criminal fraternity at the time. Easy to get hold - and fairly easy to adapt. But whoever did would've had to have a minor piece of skill and knowledge and tools. IMO I don't think BG did.

For what it's worth, I tend to agree. While the level of skill and tools needed to modify a blank firer and crimp ammunition is not exceptional, on balance I doubt BG taught himself to do all this. It is more characteristic of a garage type workshop e.g. a workman who does normal business and this on the side. That said, I don't think that access to those type of workmen would have been the exclusive preserve of serious OCGs. It seems to me perfectly plausible given BG's obsession with weapons and huge amounts of free time, that at some point over decades he may have come across a corrupt workman able to provide what he had always dreamed of.