UK UK - Jill Dando, 37, Fulham, London, 26 Apr 1999

[rvlvr]

This all makes sense, but I'm not sure if BG was capable though of putting all the bits together to come up with a working gun, ammunition etc.
The other thing perhaps is that for a man who, from the state of his house, never threw anything away - there has never been any report, IIRC, that say that magazines and books of this nature were found at his address - something you really would think the police would've found.
Oh, and before anyone says he would've got rid of them - you would've thought that the voyeuristic photos would've been binned too, but they were there.

Exactly. He was a hoarder and his house was a bin. Police pulled the entire place apart. It’s stretching the bounds of credibility to believe that in amongst the chaos and detritus the only thing they supposedly found ‘connecting’ him to this crime was literally a speck of dust.

Which is why all the nudge nudge wink wink stuff about the SAS and the like becomes so important. But even that falls flat. Why murder Jill Dando dressed like - as at least one witness put it - an estate agent, when you’re supposed to be cosplaying some military fantasy?

 

[Novosti]

Exactly. He was a hoarder and his house was a bin. Police pulled the entire place apart. It’s stretching the bounds of credibility to believe that in amongst the chaos and detritus the only thing they supposedly found ‘connecting’ him to this crime was literally a speck of dust.

Which is why all the nudge nudge wink wink stuff about the SAS and the like becomes so important. But even that falls flat. Why murder Jill Dando dressed like - as at least one witness put it - an estate agent, when you’re supposed to be cosplaying some military fantasy?

There is a good point here - that no credible evidence was found relating to the gun specifically used in the murder: not the weapon itself, nor the ammunition. So there is an unexplained question as to how he disposed of these things.

It's not true to say, though, that nothing was found in the house linking him to the case. For example, clothing matching the witness accounts was found. And ammunition and casings that appeared to be compatible with a different weapon.

And certainly not right to say that the argument against BG needed "nudge nudge" stuff about the army. BG had a decades-long history as a dangerous violent criminal - especially towards women. And one that possessed weapons, was obsessed by them, carried them to some of his crimes, and had a firearms conviction. So this part of the explanation is very well attested.

 

[rvlvr]

Witnesses generally described seeing a generically smartly-dressed man, so probably most men living in London at the time would’ve owned clothing matching that description. The two men who saw the killer described him as wearing a Barbour-style jacket. No one, to my knowledge, described seeing a man wearing a wool overcoat, like the one George owned and from which the ‘gunshot residue’ was obtained.

To my knowledge, Barry George never used a gun - replica or otherwise - during his crimes. And no evidence exists that he possessed a gun - replica or otherwise - after 1987.

 

[Novosti]

Witnesses generally described seeing a generically smartly-dressed man, so probably most men living in London at the time would’ve owned clothing matching that description. The two men who saw the killer described him as wearing a Barbour-style jacket. No one, to my knowledge, described seeing a man wearing a wool overcoat, like the one George owned and from which the ‘gunshot residue’ was obtained.

To my knowledge, Barry George never used a gun - replica or otherwise - during his crimes. And no evidence exists that he possessed a gun - replica or otherwise - after 1987.

Both courts accepted that the witness descriptions of the coat were consistent with the one found. Although as the descriptions were quite general it wasn't particularly discriminatory evidence.

 

[rvlvr]

I’m not sure that’s true. I don’t have the trial transcripts but certainly at the 2008 trial neighbour Richard Hughes was describing the coat as a dark blue or black Barbour jacket, which is quite a different item of clothing to the overcoat exhibited at the original trial.

None of the witnesses who provided ‘partial identifications’ mentioned a coat, either.

 

[forensicswannabe]

I really hate knowing someone has gotten away with this and will likely never be convicted it's horrible to have that happen in any case but a high profile one like this just isn't right.

 

[Inspector Evans]

Witnesses generally described seeing a generically smartly-dressed man, so probably most men living in London at the time would’ve owned clothing matching that description. The two men who saw the killer described him as wearing a Barbour-style jacket. No one, to my knowledge, described seeing a man wearing a wool overcoat, like the one George owned and from which the ‘gunshot residue’ was obtained.

To my knowledge, Barry George never used a gun - replica or otherwise - during his crimes. And no evidence exists that he possessed a gun - replica or otherwise - after 1987.

What was he wearing when he went to HAFAD later that day? Timing of when he was there is very inconsistent but he'd have probably been wearing a jacket of some kind, the employees there would've remembered that I'm sure if he was in an agitated manner.

 

[Novosti]

I’m not sure that’s true. I don’t have the trial transcripts but certainly at the 2008 trial neighbour Richard Hughes was describing the coat as a dark blue or black Barbour jacket, which is quite a different item of clothing to the overcoat exhibited at the original trial.

None of the witnesses who provided ‘partial identifications’ mentioned a coat, either.

The transcripts are not available online. The Court of Appeal judgement is available - this confirms the Cecil Gee coat that was found, but didn't focus on the witness statements. So on the witnesses we have to go on media reporting at the time of the first trial. The Independent:

"two other witnesses — neighbours of Jill Dando — actually saw the gunman moments after he pulled the trigger, as he left her gateway and hurried up the street. Both described a man wearing… a coat, probably something like a Barbour that came down to thigh level.”

This appears consistent in length type and shade to the one found. The brand (Cecil Gee - referred to by Court of Appeal) isn't Barbour, but the witness reference to Barbour seems only to be to a type. Cecil Gee focused on traditional formal / mid to upper range overcoat types.

I would say there is broad consistency between the witness accounts and what we know about the find. But it's obviously not an identification of a specific brand and model etc.

 

[ZeroAlpha]

Na

 

[ZeroAlpha]

At the time of the murder, phone hacking of celebrities was rife in the UK and not difficult to do. That JD planned to travel to Gowan Avenue that day could quite easily have been picked up from her mobile phone if it had been hacked. Police corruption and collusion with private investigators and journalists was a cancer at the heart of law enforcement in London throughout this period.

What I have always found strange is why Mohamed Al Fayed would get involved in this case, having his security chief offer bribes for information about the investigation. Given what we now know about his vast history of sexual offending, could he have had a motive for having her silenced? Did she know or was even a victim of his? Could he have arranged the hiring of a Serbian hitman?

Al Fayed security chief 'corrupted' Jill Dando probe by 'bribing bent detective'

It comes amid claims Al Fayed also used John Macnamara, an ex-Met Police chief, to bribe police officers and threaten women he had allegedly attacked

www.mirror.co.uk

That is very interesting angle. Had no idea he was so heavily involved.

 

[Hexe]

two other witnesses — neighbours of Jill Dando — actually saw the gunman moments after he pulled the trigger, as he left her gateway and hurried up the street. Both described a man wearing… a coat, probably something like a Barbour that came down to thigh level.”

This appears consistent in length type and shade to the one found. The brand (Cecil Gee - referred to by Court of Appeal) isn't Barbour, but the witness reference to Barbour seems only to be to a type.

Actually not. Barbour is most known from waxed coats, so 'Barbour coat" usually refers to a waxed coat. Richard Hughes described the coat worn by the perpetrator as a waxed coat, that's easy to find. Waxed fabric is glaringly different from the heavy duty woolen fabric BG's coat was made of.

 

[Novosti]

Actually not. Barbour is most known from waxed coats, so 'Barbour coat" usually refers to a waxed coat. Richard Hughes described the coat worn by the perpetrator as a waxed coat, that's easy to find. Waxed fabric is glaringly different from the heavy duty woolen fabric BG's coat was made of.

But you can't realistically identify the fabric, at a distance of tens of metres. Hughes aside, the reports are for "something like Barbour" or "Barbour style". What you can identify is shape, length, colour and any very outstanding features. I think all that can be said about the correspondence between the witness accounts and the police find is that they are broadly consistent. There isn't evidential discrimination in either direction.

 

[Hexe]

But you can't realistically identify the fabric, at a distance of tens of metres.

What tens of metres? The perpetrator was on the same side of the street as Richard Hughes who watched from his window, and opposite side to Geoffrey Upfill-Brown at his gate. Gowan Avenue is a narrow residential street, there were no tens of metres involved.

 

[Kasparthecat1]

Dando murder: I know Barry George killed my friend Jill Dando murder: I know Barry George killed my friend Jill

In case anyone hasn't seen it, interesting article here containing a letter by Nick Ross, Jill's colleague from Crimewatch. (from 2007).

 

[Novosti]

What tens of metres? The perpetrator was on the same side of the street as Richard Hughes who watched from his window, and opposite side to Geoffrey Upfill-Brown at his gate. Gowan Avenue is a narrow residential street, there were no tens of metres involved.

We can quibble about the measurements but it was nowhere near close enough to examine fabrics, and it was through a window rather than direct.

 

[Hexe]

We can quibble about the measurements but it was nowhere near close enough to examine fabrics, and it was through a window rather than direct.

Waxed fabric has distinct shine, visible from the distance. Normal woolen fabric does have not.

 

[Novosti]

Waxed fabric has distinct shine, visible from the distance. Normal woolen fabric does have not.

I suspect the defence team thought about trying that line of argument in court for 30 seconds then (rightly) thought better of it.

 

[Novosti]

Dando murder: I know Barry George killed my friend Jill Dando murder: I know Barry George killed my friend Jill

In case anyone hasn't seen it, interesting article here containing a letter by Nick Ross, Jill's colleague from Crimewatch. (from 2007).

Nick's article remains a pretty good summary of the case. And he is rightly withering about the various "fatuous" conspiracy theories - organised criminal hits, 'Serbs' etc. He makes a very good point about how slow the police were to investigate George, and even then took a lot of convincing. He's also pretty philosophical that this may be one of those cases where on balance we know who did it, but the evidence isn't enough for a criminal conviction.

 

[Hexe]

I suspect the defence team thought about trying that line of argument in court for 30 seconds then (rightly) thought better of it.

I am not a mind reader, I have no idea what the defence was thinking. What I know that both witnesses that saw the perpetrator from pretty short distance described a waxed/Barbour coat. I can buy into one witness getting it wrong but two different men, looking at the perpetrator from two different angles, having the same kind of weird optical illusion that makes the woolen coat look shiny like the Barbour, is too much for me to swallow.