GUILTY UK - Joanna Yeates, 25, Clifton, Bristol, 17 Dec 2010 #14

[notsure]

I've kept an open mind about the time of death. I think a lot of people have been swayed by the report of a scream around 9 pm, but that may have had nothing to do with it - Friday evening before Xmas, there would have been plenty of tipsy people around.

When you say more calls or texts, do you mean made by JY? If she was alone, yes perhaps, but less likely if she was with someone. If she did invite him in, or vice versa, they might have spent an hour or two drinking and chatting. I can't see any reason to rule that out.

I was thinking more that she would be likely to receive some calls or texts throughout the evening, and she would be likely to reply to them too, even if she was having a drink with a neighbour. Youngsters always seem to be phoning/texting, don't they? Come to think of it, wasn't her phone found in her bag? She wouldn't have left it there if she had been home for any length of time. (All purely my opinion, obviously).

 

[Cherwell]

I don't know .... we've been told she didn't always return calls or texts very promptly, which suggests she wasn't wedded to her phone in the way that some people seem to be. Don't know why you think she wouldn't have left it in her bag when at home, I know women who keep their phones in their handbag all the time.

Re the man who heard the 'help me' call, I've been trying to find the place where I read about this and have finally succeeded. He posts on another forum as "kingdom" - think this is the thread where the subject first crops up. He lives in a flat behind 44 Canynge Road - am sure he's genuine as there is/was a photo somewhere of the rear of the building as seen from his window. (That may be in another thread though, I haven't looked through it all again.)

 

[notsure]

I don't know .... we've been told she didn't always return calls or texts very promptly, which suggests she wasn't wedded to her phone in the way that some people seem to be. Don't know why you think she wouldn't have left it in her bag when at home, I know women who keep their phones in their handbag all the time.

Yes, that throws another light on it - the fact that she didn't answer calls promptly. I don't suppose we'll ever know how many unanswered calls there were that evening...

So puzzling, this case, whichever way you look at it.

 

[whiterum]

Well, it's been suggested that it could have come from attempts to revive her. Or perhaps in panic, listening for a heartbeat, when he began to realise that she hadn't merely passed out.

Yes indeed he could be claiming that but the police may have other evidence and idea's that might support a far more sinister reason.

 

[whiterum]

We do know that JY was in a mood for more drinking in company, from her text to MW. What more likely that she offered or accepted a casual invitation from a neighbour?

If JY was in the mood for further drinking why did she not continue on drinking with her friends at the Pub. Maybe she didn’t drink that much at all and left because she didn’t care much for drink.

Her text, the invitation to meet up for a drink with MW an old friend, may have had nothing to do with the company or the drink.

Could be she wanted to pick his brains or ask for his involvement in some new landscaping project she was undertaking since apparently he has experience in environmental science etc:

She could have been intending to spend some time on some work project at home over the holidays, who knows.

In any case, meeting up for a drink and a chat with an old and trusted friend is a different kettle of fish than accepting an invitation from a relative stranger or inviting them into your home for a drink at night, neighbour or not, even more so if alone.

Why didn't he invite or go and get merry with his Landlord or some of his old gent neighbours, who may have enjoyed company.

If a neighbour came to my door with an invitation or a bottle or whatever, Christmas or not, I’d send him on his merry way and bolt the door!!!

 

[aneurin]

...
Re the man who heard the 'help me' call, I've been trying to find the place where I read about this and have finally succeeded. ...

It was reported in the Bristol Evening Post back in January - see http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/NEIGHBOUR-HEARD-HELP/story-11245954-detail/story.html

"I was working in my bedroom when I heard a cry – it was not a scream, but it was pretty loud. It sounded like a female voice or young child. I didn't hear the first word but the next two words were definitely 'help me'. It sounded like an impassioned plea and the impression I got was that it came from the direction of Canynge Road. It was not so much the words that were said that unnerved me but the way they were said. I opened the bedroom window and looked out but couldn't see anything. I then went outside and looked and listened for about 10 seconds but when I didn't see or hear anything I dismissed it because the pavements were slippy."

Although the unnamed man wasn't sure of the exact date.

 

[Cherwell]

Hello Aneurin

Yes, the local report was certainly more accurate than the versions later put out by the national media, who distorted it quite a bit. Did you take a look at the link I included - it makes very interesting reading as this witness is one of the contributors (as 'kingdom') See here

The opportunity to move the body


I think he said later that he is not being called as a witness, though.

I have wondered if what he heard might even have been a radio or TV. Someone switched it on and hastily turned down the volume as it was on maximum. (On our old TV you used to have to turn the volume up to max when playing a DVD, and then if you forgot when turning on the TV again later, it was deafening!) That would explain why nothing else was heard.

 

[bees]

I think VT will say whatever will get him the lightest sentence. I have no expectation of hearing the truth from him as he's capable of not calling an ambulance to try and save JY, of dumping her body, of spending Christmas & New Year acting innocent to his girlfriend & family and keeping quiet when another man is arrested on suspicion of killing JY while being vilified in the press. The likelihood that he'll tell the whole truth about how she died is remote IMO.

 

[whiterum]

I was thinking more that she would be likely to receive some calls or texts throughout the evening, and she would be likely to reply to them too, even if she was having a drink with a neighbour. Youngsters always seem to be phoning/texting, don't they? Come to think of it, wasn't her phone found in her bag? She wouldn't have left it there if she had been home for any length of time. (All purely my opinion, obviously).

MW replied to her text at 9:20, the police said at the time she could have been already dead at that time. I also think that she was killed not long after entering her flat.

Her coat was hanging up in the flat and when GR phoned her mobile on the Sunday it rang from her coat pocket.

 

[aneurin]

Hello Aneurin

Yes, the local report was certainly more accurate than the versions later put out by the national media, who distorted it quite a bit.

As normal then.

Did you take a look at the link I included - it makes very interesting reading as this witness is one of the contributors (as 'kingdom') See here

The opportunity to move the body

I think he said later that he is not being called as a witness, though.

Yes, I found it quite interesting what 'kingdom' had to say about moving the body - as in very easy and straightforward - given their knowledge of the locality. However I think that 'kingdom' and the witness who heard the screams are different people. Kingdom does say;

No i don't know the person that heard the screams. Having said that i thought i heard something, that could well have been significant during the day time - which has led me to believe that JY was possibly abducted on the saturday morning (which i can't really discuss on here for obvious reasons).

I have wondered if what he heard might even have been a radio or TV. Someone switched it on and hastily turned down the volume as it was on maximum. (On our old TV you used to have to turn the volume up to max when playing a DVD, and then if you forgot when turning on the TV again later, it was deafening!) That would explain why nothing else was heard.

As interesting as it might be, I don't think that the evidence of the screams is particularly probative in any way, for that very reason.

 

[Cherwell]

However I think that 'kingdom' and the witness who heard the screams are different people.

Yes, they are. The person who reported hearing a scream at around 2100 on the Friday was a guest at a party across the road from no. 44 who had stepped outside for a smoke. 'Kingdom' never describes what he heard as a scream, and he is quite clear that it was in the morning, in daylight hours. He has been widely misquoted, which has led to people confusing and conflating the two. Different witnesses, as you say.

As interesting as it might be, I don't think that the evidence of the screams is particularly probative in any way, for that very reason.

I agree. All kinds of shouts and screams are heard in towns and cities, most of them entirely without significance.

 

[kINGFISHER]

What will be interesting is at what time was Jo s body dumped , was it nearer Christmas day ?

Was a trophy taken ? i.e. sock or necklace as in the Caruthers case.

Will Jos parents when this case is over acknowledge that the police had to do their job in arresting the LL and say they are sorry he had to be put through such an ordeal ,or will they say nothing.

 

[kINGFISHER]

yes indeed he could be claiming that but the police may have other evidence and idea's that might support a far more sinister reason.

yes they are not going to try to prove murder for nothing.

 

[whiterum]

The person who reported hearing a scream at around 2100 on the Friday was a guest at a party across the road from no. 44 who had stepped outside for a smoke.

All kinds of shouts and screams are heard in towns and cities, most of them entirely without significance.

What makes the report of the scream at around 21:00 on the Friday appear to be of some significance, is the fact that JY was estimated to have arrived home around 8:55/21:00 and it came from the direction of her flat.

 

[Cherwell]

What makes the report of the scream at around 21:00 on the Friday appear to be of some significance, is the fact that JY was estimated to have arrived home around 8:55/21:00 and it came from the direction of her flat.

It may prove to be the case, but as yet we don't know of course. As Aneurin said, a scream on its own proves nothing. I imagine that at the time the witness didn't think it meant anything sinister, otherwise s/he would have investigated or raised the alarm. I'm sure I would have done the same, ie nothing.

 

[kINGFISHER]

well, it's been suggested that it could have come from attempts to revive her. Or perhaps in panic, listening for a heartbeat, when he began to realise that she hadn't merely passed out.

if he was of a sound mind to do that then he must have known what he had just done to jo was wrong, no excuses.

 

[kINGFISHER]

A pedestrian passing Canynge Road also heard screams at the same time .

WIKIPEDIA A young woman attending a party at a neighbouring home on Canynge Road on the night of Yeates' disappearance recalled hearing two loud screams shortly after 9.00 pm from the direction of Yeates' flat.[54] Another neighbour who lived behind Yeates' home said that he heard a high-pitched woman's voice scream "Help me". two loud screams shortly after 9.00 pm from the direction of Yeates' flat.".

So does this make three people who heard screams, I hope these people are going to be called as witnesses, especially if it ties in with the time of her death.

 

[bees]

The report by the woman attending the party will be especially interesting as there will be no doubt which night it was.

 

[whiterum]

A pedestrian passing Canynge Road also heard screams at the same time

Here is a little more info about those two calls and when they were reported

A second witness has told police they heard screams from the direction of Joanna Yeates flat on the night she went missing.

The cries were reported to officers while Miss Yeates was still a missing person, just a few days after she disappeared on December 17.

It is believed the witness was walking down Miss Yeates road at the time.

A partygoer at a flat across the road from the 25-year-old’s home had already told detectives she heard loud screams – but put it down to festive high jinks.

Both witnesses are believed to have heard the screams around 9pm, less than 15 minutes after Miss Yeates is thought to have returned to her home on Canynge Road in Bristol’s affluent Clifton area.

Detectives believe the scream could have been Miss Yeates being attacked on her doorstep, which would help them to narrow down times on their inquiries.

 

[aneurin]

A pedestrian passing Canynge Road also heard screams at the same time .

WIKIPEDIA A young woman attending a party at a neighbouring home on Canynge Road on the night of Yeates' disappearance recalled hearing two loud screams shortly after 9.00 pm from the direction of Yeates' flat.[54] Another neighbour who lived behind Yeates' home said that he heard a high-pitched woman's voice scream "Help me". two loud screams shortly after 9.00 pm from the direction of Yeates' flat.".

Taken from a report in the Daily Mail - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...murder-Landlord-Chris-Jefferies-hold-key.html - which adds that "Putting the cries down to high jinks during the run up to Christmas, she ignored the noise and returned inside".

A 'scream' can be the result of a number of different scenarios. At Aneurin Towers loud screams of a very distrubing nature have been heard when the wife has spotted a mouse or a particularly large spider.

So does this make three people who heard screams, I hope these people are going to be called as witnesses, especially if it ties in with the time of her death.

Well, the time of death may well not be an issue in the trial given that the accused has admitted responsibility.