GUILTY UK - Joe McCann, multiple victims kidnapped & assaulted, April / May 2019

[Legally Bland]

McCann, 34, is said to have abducted a 25-year-old woman just a few metres from her home in Walthamstow, London, after midnight on April 25.

She was the second of McCann's 11 alleged victim whom he is said to have attacked between April 20 and May 5 this year.

In a recorded police interview played at the Old Bailey, she said: "Someone had put their hand over my mouth and told me to stop screaming - he said 'you f***** with my sister'.

"Before I got into the car I thought I was being mugged. When I got into the car I don't really know what I was thinking, it was so weird.

"Then, when he stopped, I realised what was happening and I thought he was going to rape me and I thought 'I need to make sure he doesn't kill me'."

She said he had repeated called her Hayley, echoing evidence given earlier by McCann's first alleged victim.

[...]

He also tried to make her take him back to her address so he could stab her boyfriend and rape her housemate, the court heard.

The woman said: "At one point we parked in a country lane and he raped me and then we drove around Hackney and Clapham and Bethnal Green and I still wouldn't say where my house was.

"When it got light we had driven a long way away. He parked outside a school.

"He kept saying he needed to find a kid and he was going to make me rape a kid.

[...]

He also threatened to throw her into a canal to "wash the DNA" off her, jurors were told.

At one point he forced her to take out £250 cash and buy him a list of things from a corner shop, including a bottle of vodka.

The shopkeeper asked her if she was okay but the woman was unable to answer because McCann was standing by the door watching her, the court heard.

Woman tells of '14-hour rape ordeal'... 'I need to make sure he doesn't kill me'

More at link.

 

[Legally Bland]

@DannyShawBBC
·
1h

On Day 4 of Joseph #McCann trial jury has been watching police interview with woman allegedly raped during 14-hour ordeal in his car. She says she tried but failed to summon help in a McDonald’s, thought about escaping when he left keys in car but said she couldn’t drive..


@DannyShawBBC
·
1h

..at one point the woman said she tried to grab a crowbar from floor of the car...before eventually she ran away after smashing vodka bottle on man’s head. Now the woman is giving ‘live’ evidence in court, from behind a curtain. Joseph #McCann is not in court.

 

[Legally Bland]

They aren't really be going to throw this defence at every victim are they?
______________

@DannyShawBBC

Jo Sidhu QC, for #McCann, suggests defendant offered the woman lift home & she consented to sex. She denies it. Sidhu suggests she was a “happy participant” and that she had opportunities to ask for help but didn’t take them. The woman - speaking softly but clearly - denies it.

 

[scapa]

They aren't really be going to throw this defence at every victim are they?
______________

@DannyShawBBC

Jo Sidhu QC, for #McCann, suggests defendant offered the woman lift home & she consented to sex. She denies it. Sidhu suggests she was a “happy participant” and that she had opportunities to ask for help but didn’t take them. The woman - speaking softly but clearly - denies it.

It's appalling, even for an attorney with a fixed menu to choose from. But I don't see how they can smear the 11 or 13 year-old as a "happily consenting" temptress.

Why not accept the timeline and terrible harm he did in his spree and aim at a defence of psychotic break/ altered state? It would be no more ludicrous and would have the bonus of allowing the advocate to look at her/himself in the mirror without cringing.

 

[Scorpiette]

Curious to see what reason (apart from JM refusing to attend trial...) has been given (if any).
So he's not claiming mental illness and yet he's been in a healthcare wing?
Do you think medical reports will be submitted? Will the Judge request this?
Or has he just ignored all legal advice and insists he's innocent I wonder?

 

[tresir2012]

It's clear he's a nutcase but what is the maximum he can get for all this ?
10 years? Then they mistakenly release him again. It's disgraceful.

ETA it looks like a maximum sentence with aggravating factors such as this could attract a life sentence, so I am a bit happier about this now. See link.

Rape and Sexual Offences - Chapter 19: Sentencing | The Crown Prosecution Service

 

[LadyL]

he better get a life sentence
there can't be another option
this is beyond sickening

 

[Legally Bland]

From Friday (2nd victim):

Jurors were told the women managed to escape and run towards builders near the Phoenix Lodge hotel in Watford, Hertfordshire.


The woman said: "It was not about courage. It was about logic, the best time to incapacitate him."

During a videoed police interview played in court, the 25-year-old woman told how McCann said to them "I'm going to put my arms round you and you need to smile", before ordering them out of the car at the hotel.

She said instead she grabbed the vodka bottle and hit him over the head.

The court was told McCann, from Harrow, west London, reacted angrily, saying: "What the f***."

The witness said: "I saw it smash and he turned round and looked at me and was shouting and I dropped the stuff and ran up the road towards the builders shouting for help and saying we had been kidnapped.

"I ran up to one of them and said 'I need your phone, I need your phone' but he didn't understand me.

"I ran up the road and a man said 'come in here' and I went into the shop.

"As soon as I got into the shop I started just crying and I could not believe that I was in there.

"I turned round to look out and I saw the car drive away. I thought that meant he had driven away with her so I told them she was there.

"I looked down and was bleeding and there was lots of people there and they were saying 'don't worry you are safe' and there is people that will protect me.

"The next thing I remember is the other girl coming in."

Joseph McCann trial: Woman tells how she used 'logic' to hit alleged rapist with vodka bottle​

 

[Legally Bland]

Also from Friday:

The court also heard how the boyfriend of the 25-year-old woman ran out into the street after hearing screams - unaware it was his girlfriend who was the victim.

Dressed only in his pyjama bottoms the man raced out to look for the woman after he was woken by the sound of screams and cries of 'get off '

He later jumped into his van with a female housemate and toured the area looking for the woman.

Hours later after viewing CCTV from a local shop and seeing his girlfriend walking home he made a 999 call to report her abduction.

Jurors listened to the 999 call that was made around 12.30am by the victim's flatmate last April.

The woman told the operator a woman was being attacked in the street outside their home.

The victim had earlier told the court she was grabbed from behind as she was about to enter her home in East London and held captive for 14 hours while being repeatedly raped.

The flatmate said she was woken by the victim's boyfriend who burst into her bedroom and said he had been woken by a women screaming outside.​

After they both went to investigate she said the boyfriend - who had no idea who was being allegedly attacked - ran up the street to see if he could help.

The flatmate said:' He only had on his pyjama bottom and ran out into the road. I stayed by the front gate. I knew it was serious as he is normally so calm.'

The flatmate said she joined the victim's boyfriend in his van as they drove around the area to look for the woman.

When they failed to find any trace of the woman her boyfriend went to the local tube station to see if there was any CCTV of the 25-year-old. The flatmate said it was unusual for the woman not to have returned home or answer her phone.

Shortly after 4am the boyfriend went to a local shop where he was allowed to view CCTV which showed his girlfriend walking home alone.

She was described as 'being carefree'. After watching the film the boyfriend made another 999 call to report his girlfriend missing and told the operator he believed she had been abducted.

He choked on tears as he told an officer on the other end of the line that he had seen CCTV footage of his girlfriend at a shop round the corner moments before the abduction.

‘Sorry, my girlfriend is a missing person. I’ve seen CCTV footage which leads me to the definite belief that it was her I heard in the road outside the house,’ he said.

In a witness statement read to the court, he said: ‘I had just switched off the light in my room and lay down on the bed with the window open.

‘Almost before I lay down I heard outside a sound which was really unusual, it was like a scream but I wasn’t sure if it was human or foxes in the local area.

‘The first sound was a shriek and I think I didn’t identify it was a person at first because it sounded like an animal.

‘For a person to make that kind of guttural scream it would have to be really extreme.

‘That was followed by a man’s voice which was low and aggressive. I heard her again and it was muffled it sounded like someone with hand over their mouth or like someone would sound if someone was trying to restrict them from crying.

‘I heard the man say something with ‘f***’ in it and when I heard that I was immediately sure something really violent was happening.

‘I leapt out of bed and looked out of the window which has blinds so I pulled them one to side.

‘I couldn’t see anything. I froze for a moment trying to figure out what to do. It sounded like a very dangerous thing.

‘I banged on my housemate’s door and said you need to call police someone’s being hurt I needed to wake her up.

‘It was around the time I would have expected my girlfriend back from her as she often works late.

‘I kept calling but her phone kept going straight to voicemail and my instinct was it could have been her I heard which was really alarming me.

‘I called her saying something serious has happened, I need you to call me straight away.

‘I called every 20 minutes and told her I’m not going to sleep until you get home.’

'Sex attacker' Joseph McCann on McDonald's drive-thru CCTV | Daily Mail Online​

 

[Legally Bland]

McCann, who is said to have carried out sex attacks on eleven victims aged between 11 and 71 in April and May, has chosen not to attend court to hear evidence of alleged victims.

Judge Mr Justice Edis told jurors: 'The defendant Joseph McCann has decided for his own reasons not to be present at this trial.

'He is free to attend if he wishes and arrangements are in place for him to come to this trial whenever he chooses.

'He will not be compelled to attend. If he changes his mind we will see him, otherwise we will not.

'His absence is not evidence in the case and you should not infer from his choice to be absent that he is guilty.'

[...]

McCann's lawyer Jo Sidhu QC said to the woman: 'I'm going to suggest that actually you weren't unhappy or unwilling to be in that car,'

He woman replied: 'That's ludicrous. I was forced into the car as I think you might have seen on CCTV and multiple times I begged him to stop.

'I begged him to let me go I tried to resist everything he told me to do and I wasn't a willing party to any of it.'

Mr Sidhu said: 'I'm going to suggest that in that car you and [the other woman] were drinking alcohol willingly and happily.'

The woman replied: 'I didn't drink any alcohol, he directed me to at several points and I obscured my actions, I wasn't drinking anything. I didn't want to and I didn't.'

Mr Sidhu said: 'I'm going to suggest that that is incorrect and that the sexual activity you engaged in with the other woman was consensual.

'I'm also going to suggest to you that any sexual activity you reported being involved in with Mr McCann didn't take place.'

The woman replied: 'Again, not true. He forced us to. He physically abused me when I refused and he said he was going to kill us so I complied out of fear.

'It did happen is all I can say quite honestly. It did happen and there were swabs taken and it did happen,' the 21-year-old said.

Alleged victim of 'rapist' Joseph McCann rejects claims she agreed to sex | Daily Mail Online

 

[tresir2012]

This is making me really angry hearing the ordeal they went thru while he is just lounging somewhere with his feet up. Now they're having to relive the whole ordeal and be told they're lying. I also cannot understand why it took the police so long to catch him.

 

[scapa]

This is making me really angry hearing the ordeal they went thru while he is just lounging somewhere with his feet up. Now they're having to relive the whole ordeal and be told they're lying. I also cannot understand why it took the police so long to catch him.

I agree. The judge just sounds so accommodating of McCann's refusal to appear. I get that he's constrained by law but surely there are more neutral ways to frame it?

And I HATE HATE HATE that the (sadly common) strategy of victim-blaming in rape cases is being trotted out so ludicrously and repeatedly here. Who the he** is going to believe that a young woman brutally abducted before witnesses and on-camera is suddenly going to be delighted to drink with him "happily" and then "happily" perform degrading acts on a complete stranger (and be degraded herself) under duress on the instructions of her abductor? What precedent is there in all of human history for the believability of this "suggestion" on the part of the defence?

And the repeated use "happily" just makes it worse. It's possible to mount a defence, however doomed, in a case without causing further harm that you know to be harm. Just awful. Kudos to the witnesses for standing their ground during this shambles of a cross.

 

[Elainera]

I agree. The judge just sounds so accommodating of McCann's refusal to appear. I get that he's constrained by law but surely there are more neutral ways to frame it?

And I HATE HATE HATE that the (sadly common) strategy of victim-blaming in rape cases is being trotted out so ludicrously and repeatedly here. Who the he** is going to believe that a young woman brutally abducted before witnesses and on-camera is suddenly going to be delighted to drink with him "happily" and then "happily" perform degrading acts on a complete stranger (and be degraded herself) under duress on the instructions of her abductor? What precedent is there in all of human history for the believability of this "suggestion" on the part of the defence?

And the repeated use "happily" just makes it worse. It's possible to mount a defence, however doomed, in a case without causing further harm that you know to be harm. Just awful. Kudos to the witnesses for standing their ground during this shambles of a cross.

ITA. It's awful and maddening Let me guess, when it comes to the minors he'll say they invented the assault to get attention.

The only good thing might be that JM later can't claim that his attorney didn't do his job and demand a retrial.

 

[Alyce]

The wording being used by this Judge is rather odd to say the least

he is free to attend if he chooses, arrangements are in place

it’s like he’s some special guest, not a person on trial for a series of horrendous assaults

 

[Scorpiette]

The wording being used by this Judge is rather odd to say the least

he is free to attend if he chooses, arrangements are in place

it’s like he’s some special guest, not a person on trial for a series of horrendous assaults

Yes, I thought this too, Alyce.
Makes it sound like anyone can chose whether or not to appear at their own trial.
Maybe the Judge is using language to coax JM to appear?

 

[dotr]

Guessing that they all anticipate JM acting like the complete jerk that he seems to be, one can almost imagine the antics he might get up to, or the ridiculous and insulting things he might say in court.
Maybe it is better for all involved at this point if he just stays put.
Let him have temper tantrums in his little cubbyhole, while the adults decide his fate.
imo, for now- speculation.

 

[Legally Bland]

@DannyShawBBC
·
1h
Day 6 of Joseph #McCann trial - the jury are watching police interview with 17-year-old girl from Lancashire. She says she taken “hostage” in her home as her mum was tied up with the cord of hair straighteners. Her attacker’s eyes were “pure evil”. He had a “massive” knife ...

58m
.. & over 3 hours says she & her 11-year-old brother were repeatedly sexually assaulted by the attacker in front of each other. “He kept brushing it (the knife) on my skin...it’s an ‘I’m in charge’ thing.” She told police: “I thought I was going to die.” #McCann is not in court

54m
“I tried to manipulate him to be nice...my life was in his hands...if I disobeyed him I’d be dead,” the girl tells police. She says he told her he’d take her to Europe. “My life flashed before my eyes. I thought I’m going to be this person’s sex slave.” #McCann

50m
She escaped by pulling up a sheet covering 1st floor bedroom window, opening curtain & jumping. “I just flew down,” she says, but broke her heel-bone. During police interview, a pair of crutches can be seen propped against the armchair she’s sitting on. #McCann

 

[Alyce]

A mother today described how a knife-wielding sex attacker abused her children after telling her: 'I will slit your throat.


much more at the link.........grim reading



Mother tells court 'knife-wielding sex attacker' abused her children | Daily Mail Online

 

[scapa]

A mother today described how a knife-wielding sex attacker abused her children after telling her: 'I will slit your throat.


much more at the link.........grim reading



Mother tells court 'knife-wielding sex attacker' abused her children | Daily Mail Online

Horrifying. This scenario in particular reminds me of GSK -- separating parent (mother) from children and ratcheting up her terror through her double helplessness, unable to help herself or her daughter and son. Remarkable sadism on his part, and courage on theirs to escape and secure themselves and the house.

Predictably absurd and unconvincing counter-narrative by the defence. Sure, Jo, poor Mr McCann was frightened by the hysterical knife-wielding mother as he engaged in yet another bout of "happy" consensual sex. Blech.

 

[Legally Bland]

Horrifying. This scenario in particular reminds me of GSK -- separating parent (mother) from children and ratcheting up her terror through her double helplessness, unable to help herself or her daughter and son. Remarkable sadism on his part, and courage on theirs to escape and secure themselves and the house.

Predictably absurd and unconvincing counter-narrative by the defence. Sure, Jo, poor Mr McCann was frightened by the hysterical knife-wielding mother as he engaged in yet another bout of "happy" consensual sex. Blech.

I don't know if Alyce's link has been updated or I missed it, but I didn't see the defence's version:

Cross-examining, Jo Sidhu QC presented an alternative version of events on behalf of the defendant. He suggested the woman had become upset that McCann was with her daughter in a bedroom.

Mr Sidhu said: 'You reacted to this by fetching a kitchen knife. And you had brought that kitchen knife upstairs with you and you were shouting when you approached the bedroom in which Mr McCann and your daughter were doing something and you shouted about the fact Mr McCann was wanted for rape and you burst into the bedroom with this knife and you tried to attack him.

'It was obvious he was tying you up in order to stop you from being violent towards him because you were out of control.' The witness replied: 'I disagree with all of that.'

Mother tells court 'knife-wielding sex attacker' abused her children | Daily Mail Online