Found Deceased UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen getting into taxi outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #9 *ARREST*

[Spy Versus Spy]

I did give a break down a few pages ago of what I thought so far;

I'll go ahead and give you my 'Occam's Razor' view of this case. Presupposing that all the central evidence presented so far is relevant and that we take it at face value, there are a few inescapable 'features'.

1 - She refused Grey Beard's help, but she apparently got into PR's car willingly.
2 - PR possibly discarded a hammer, screw-driver and a lipstick from his car, yards from the spot she was last seen/known alive

I believe they drove to the anti-car park at the end of Beresford Avenue.

I cannot see ANY scenario where Libby staggers off drunk and ends up in the river. She would have to stagger slip and slide across 200 yards, before getting to a pitch black area obscuring the bank.

First, she's more likely in this scenario to be found next morning face down in the middle of the field somewhere. Second, she'd never negotiate the obstacles between the end of the path into the park and the river. She'd have to turn 45 degree left, negotiate a dog leg and avoid ending up in the abandoned boathouse compound, avoiding all the trees and brambles, climb UP THE STEEP BANK in the sheet ice, and fall into the river without leaving any traces in the mud or the reeds - or turn right, and stagger another 50 or more yards along the path, and then turn right and fall into the pond - (if she fell into the pond she would have been found on day one) - or turn left and negotiate the icy slipway up to the embankment, in pitch blackness. I tried this sober and completely lost my footing on this slipway in the dark and would have been snared in a bramble patch if the Police hadn't cleared them. By this point, you are blinded by the sharp lights of the factories across the river. If she fell into the river at any of these points I imagine A) marks in the mud (the river wasn't frozen) and B) traces of her fall through the reeds, even if she was swept away in a strong current.

The only other place really would be the drain at the back of her house, but they must have had a team of a dozen or so frogmen up and down that stretch in dinghies and wading in the water, using aquascopes. The one places they seemed to be seriously looking very early on was the drain, and I believe it was working on the assumption that she had fallen in drunk, either from the bridge on Beresford Avenue, or from the ten-foot round the back of her house.

So no, I cannot see anyone, no matter how wild and unkempt that park area appears, just falling down and lying undiscovered for three weeks and counting. It is very well trodden day and night all through the year. Between all the local kids and dog walkers there probably isn't an inch of the entire park area that ISN'T scoured and left undisturbed for long.

I rule out accident. I cannot see any scenario for that.

Therefore, I echo the Police - harm 'may' have come to Libby.

My problem with this case is it's transformation half way through. The case exhibits one set of characteristics, and then a completely different set. In Occam's Razor terms, the trail is definitely cold in the park. But like the Police, even though the trail is utterly cold, I believe the park is the thing. The key is in the park.

The screams and the running man, both fit in with the scope of the first half of the case, and also dovetails with PRs offending history. In that they fit the narrative established by PR's history and the activity around the bench, potential activity near her front door, potential implements discarded at the scene. (If PR had harmed Libby with these, of had just murdered her in the park, why would he discard these items that can be forensically linked to him BACK at the original scene?

However, once the narrative tries to move beyond the screams and the running man... there is nothing. At this point she could have been lifted out by helicopter, such is the nature of how suddenly and stone cold the trail goes.

The screams and running man both fit the narrative once we pre-plot PR's history in. Given the information of the pick-up at the bench, the offending near her house ten days earlier, the discarded implements, the admission she was in his car, given that information I WOULD GO LOOKING INTO THE PARK as my No1 place of suspicion that she came to harm in there. To then find out there was a scream heard, and a man seen running, that would instantly confirm to me that the narrative being plotted by all the evidence points so far was the correct assumption...

FUNDAMENTALLY:
* That PR went out of his way to pick Libby up in his car, take her to the park, and physically/sexually assault her.

Now here is where the major problem comes in. Here is where now this case is closed, and a case of a different nature is opened.

The case up to this point is predictable, it conforms to presented evidence and each stage has a natural lead or natural escalation to the next stage. Voyeurism; burglary; stalking; contact; assault; rape; murder; whether true or not, together they form a plausible narrative.

And then suddenly this randy young bloke who has carved a very clumsy clue riddled sexual criminal activity of a generic 20s something trying to lead a double life from his wife and kids; basically the guy was, apparently, an idiot in terms of conducting his affairs as a criminal mastermind, and seems to be on a course to be spoken to by the Police sooner or later...

..Is able to make a person/body disappear; not just disappear, but she disappears from the middle of a crime scene narrative. She is there, leaving signs and evidence, as humans do, in whatever seemingly innocuous ways...

Then she is simply not there.



I am not being flippant here, but my answer to this question is honestly, after weighing up all the available evidence, the likeliest scenario is LS was lifted out of the park by helicopter. OBVIOUSLY I am not actually suggesting an actual real life helicopter should now be the focus of the investigation. No. I mean simply that according to Occam's Razor helicopter is what it appears. In metaphorical terms the search party has followed a set of footprints in the deep snow in to the middle of a field where they just stop.

So I spin round in the paradox - I am convinced she WAS in the park.

She is NOT in the pond.
She is NOT in that part of the river between the two bridges (Sutton Road and Stoneferry)

So she is either, as people have suggested, far downstream, possibly in the estuary or even out to sea.

Or

She was taken out of the park by other means. For this I have to 'pencil in' an accomplice. I find it inconceivable with his offending history and methods that he was able to do this himself and evade forensics and CID for 3+ weeks.

So, yeah, sorry, went on a bit on stream of consciousness.

Boiled down I find these inescapable;
* She WAS in the park
* She IS NOW NOT in the park
* PR had an accomplice

I agree with pretty much all of that.

The Hammer/Sdriver/lipgloss was said to not form part of LE's investigation at the time! Dismissed very quickly for such an odd find at that time in that location imho. And not repeatedly ( as they have done with taxidriver and GB)

The release of the Croda cctv and the extending of the timeframe is interesting. This is where, if any, dovetailing of the two stories takes place imo.

In the cut through Strontium, near the Croda end barrier, there appeared to be an open drain or coverless drain sat in the tree/ditch line sort of just at the angle of the croda fence but on the cutthrough/park side . Just a square hole . Did you see that? What is it? Ive wondered if the running man has heard v odd noises from there or seen something that hes unsure what it is but odd enough to frighten. A potential temporary stash point? Does the cyclist also see/hear and has the balls to return and double check?

Im now 100% anti-accident also.

Im also a firm believer that the park saw both pr and ls at some point .

Im not convinced yet that the park isnt where it all ends. Cert for LS' story.

 

[Spy Versus Spy]

I 100% agree... I am 'exploring and wondering aloud' all possibilities, looking for probabilities.

The one thing about the Poles, is that they are an exceptionally hard working bunch! 10, 15 years ago if you went out at 4am, there'd be little huddles of people stood on street corners waiting for lifts to jobs in factories and fields; these were mainly Poles.

As I said, I have nothing but love for my winged hussar neighbours! And yes, it is a feature that the Poles who have come here have arrived with barely anything, and have worked and supported each other just through sheer hard work. I know a lot of Poles in Hull, I admire them.

HOWEVER as has been pointed out, there is a darker element that has crept in over the last couple of years; not just the Poles, every community. A lot of people who came to the UK came to get away from certain types, and have found that those bad types have lately followed them and are co-opting their networks. The bad English people are at it too - we are apparently getting a lot of Manchester gangs coming to Hull to tax Hull's dealers these days.

Yup, not dismissing any cud-chewing!

 

[Strontium69]

I just cant get past the 'opportunistic element gone bad 'line of thought.

Ok he may have been cruising around, with ill intent or perving, or going to shop water for gym..or looking at potential voyeurism targets . Knowing Thurs is really the first night of the weekend for students (Welly opens Thurs-Sun for example).

Sees drunken young lass on bench...parks up close on Haworth but off Bev Rd. 10/20mins thinking/psyching himself up ,including maybe even gets off just watching her from around the tree on the corner for a bit?? Comes back to car, has a (post wank?) cig...decision made that its an ideal if unplanned chance to take it further.?
Eta:
My only slight concern is the charge of the previous offence on Wellesley and is that linked in any way to LS or Household

BUT...

How does such an 'amateur' opportunist make a person/body disappear like that? That part no longer fits the lone opportunist narrative!

 

[jessie]

I'm posting this link in case it is of interest. I have it 'saved' and find it a good reference. There is a lot of it mind if you go through all the subsections, and posting it at a rather late hour for UK readers !

Missing person investigations

 

[cluciano63]

He may not have said “no comment” a hundred times that weekend. He may have answered questions, either not truthfully or not helpful to police in proving anything against him.

 

[Spy Versus Spy]

BUT...

How does such an 'amateur' opportunist make a person/body disappear like that? That part no longer fits the lone opportunist narrative!

I think its down to cctv and timeframes and brazen amatuerness.

Why does 3am play such a role as the terminal end of any LE statement?

Is it when PR is seen returning home? Is it when PR's car is seen re-entering Hull or the core areas of the case to date?

We can assume that PR's car is forensicslly clean. In the rear..in the boot. Otherwise charges pressed. We assume the passenger seat has some evidence of LS there at some point?

Has he simply left the park and LS after a time and returned shortly after?

Has he brazenly just driven away with LS in the front seat in a state of unbloodied unconsciousness? Left the area to dump but without clarity of cctv showing passenger seat? Cctv not picking him up enough to determine where hes going/been? Until 3am?

Are le looking at park for evidence not of body but of struggle? For a ligature? For any pieces of clothing? As the scope of potential travel is unknown exactly and therefore futile on any meaningful scale? Resources even for such a case are finite.

We can assume they believe the park plays a part cert in the first part of the story.

Could his only planning be he knows routes out of his home area not on cctv?

 

[cluciano63]

BUT...

How does such an 'amateur' opportunist make a person/body disappear like that? That part no longer fits the lone opportunist narrative!

Most of the abductions here on WS are assumed to be one-offs...and many victims are never found. But of course it is impossible to know if they’ve done it before until caught. Still, I don’t think it is so dificult to hide a body if you have a car, especially when all of the searching has been in same area, more or less.

Unless they know for sure he never left the neighborhood, I think she could be anywhere. And then, if PR did NOT harm her, she could have ended up in water all on her own, gotten into some other car out of camera range, etc...jmo.

 

[Strontium69]

Snipped for focus and BBM:


Based on my experiences in an area of the U.S. with a large Polish immigrant community, I agree with many of your observations. However, I was unaware of Polish immigrants having a particular occupation, other than their "starter job." They, like many other Eastern European immigrants in my area, despite their previous occupations or skills, seem almost always to start with house cleaning work until they acquire sufficient English / become better established to move into more desirable jobs. I was curious if the "particular occupation" you mentioned was house cleaning, and if so, if it's because it would give cleaners knowledge of the contents of clients' homes, and probably keys or access codes. Thus, making it easy to know which homes had "intimate items" to steal and / or easy to gain access. Could PR have "borrowed" house keys or codes, or paid on-the-job visits to an acquaintance who worked as a house cleaner? Apologies if this question has already been covered. TIA. MOO.

Ah okay, I didn't have an occupation in mind, merely that the first ones to arrive and start work tend to then open the door for their national friends to work there. In the UK the meme is Polish builders. For isntance in The Wire their are large groups of Poles working at the docks in Baltimore. So if you're fresh off the boat from Poland and you land in Baltimore, as a complete stranger knowing no-one, chances are you could walk down the docks and find employment right away amongst your fellow Poles, and you're in. I just meant, like a lot of foreign national communities do, they seem to congregate around an occupation, because of the nature of getting each other work.

Wrong way in financial terms? That’s flummoxed me to be fair. Scratches head.

Yeah, couldn’t figure out how to phrase what I meant?

I simply meant such as;

If I sold my house in London and moved to Hull, I'd be in positive financial equity; I'd be able to buy the same bricks and mortar for about 30% of the house I just sold.. quids in, positive equity is released!

If I tried it the other way round; I sold my 3 bed house in hull, I'm going to be able to buy a one room studio flat with that money; I am trapped by negative equity.

I know Poland isn't the 3rd World... but for a manual worker, it is still an uphill financial move, into negative equity. (There is a current trend in the other direction seeing Western Europeans buying retirement plots in Eastern Europe because you get more bricks for the same money - people are releasing their current equity, and then cashing in a positive equity swap to somewhere cheaper.)

I dont like it Strontium.

Theres just no suggestion or evidence of any kind of network?

He's done what tens of thousands of his fellow nationals have done since the liberalisation of EU borders. Although the standard of living is lower in Poland, it's not 3rd world.

I understand he worked in a Beet factory before leaving Poland. Probably v low paid but a regular income nontheless?

If he applied himself at home like he seems to have done in the UK ( not clubbing/drinking at wkends etc) then not unthinkable to easily save enough for a flight or a ferry to the UK to look for a better life/income. I think you articulate this well in your own post. Worker..rents decent house..runs a car...family kids...dog...gym membership etc.

I do agree 100%... I am voicing possibilities, looking for probabilities!

I have nothing but love and admiration for our winged hussar neighbours! They are characterised by hard working families who are a positive benefit to their immediate areas, they not only have integrated perfectly, they have made an effort to IMPROVE the communities they are in.

HOWEVER, it has been pointed out, that there is a darker element these last couple of years. It seems that a lot of the bad people they left behind last decade, have now followed them and are beginning to co-opt their networks. Not speaking specifically about the Poles, but every foreign national community; and even the English are at it, as there are bad people from Manchester who are now taxing Hull's dealers.

I also agree that from what I've seen of the Poles they have done nothing other than work exceptionally hard, and remain family and community focused.

Having taken a look around his home village of Warszewice on Google maps it's doesn't look too bad. However, reading the articles about his mother and sister, they are clearly not well off, probably just comfortable. That does not exclude PR getting here on his own hard work... just observations!

 

[Spy Versus Spy]

Ah okay, I didn't have an occupation in mind, merely that the first ones to arrive and start work tend to then open the door for their national friends to work there. In the UK the meme is Polish builders. For isntance in The Wire their are large groups of Poles working at the docks in Baltimore. So if you're fresh off the boat from Poland and you land in Baltimore, as a complete stranger knowing no-one, chances are you could walk down the docks and find employment right away amongst your fellow Poles, and you're in. I just meant, like a lot of foreign national communities do, they seem to congregate around an occupation, because of the nature of getting each other work.



Yeah, couldn’t figure out how to phrase what I meant?

I simply meant such as;

If I sold my house in London and moved to Hull, I'd be in positive financial equity; I'd be able to buy the same bricks and mortar for about 30% of the house I just sold.. quids in, positive equity is released!

If I tried it the other way round; I sold my 3 be house in hull, I'm going to be able to buy a one room studio flat with that money; I am trapped by negative equity.

I know Poland isn't the 3rd World... but for a manual worker, it is still an uphill financial move, into negative equity. (There is a current trend in the other direction seeing Western Europeans buying retirement plots in Eastern Europe because you get more bricks for the same money - people are releasing their current equity, and then cashing in a positive equity swap to somewhere cheaper.)



I do agree 100%... I am voicing possibilities, looking for probabilities!

I have nothing but love and admiration for our winged hussar neighbours! They are characterised by hard working families who are a positive benefit to their immediate areas, they not only have integrated perfectly, they have made an effort to IMPROVE the communities they are in.

HOWEVER, it has been pointed out, that there is a darker element these last couple of years. It seems that a lot of the bad people they left behind last decade, have now followed them and are beginning to co-opt their networks. Not speaking specifically about the Poles, but every foreign national community; and even the English are at it, as there are bad people from Manchester who are now taxing Hull's dealers.

I also agree that from what I've seen of the Poles they have done nothing other than work exceptionally hard, and remain family and community focused.

Having taken a look around his home village of Warszewice on Google maps it's doesn't look too bad. However, reading the articles about his mother and sister, they are clearly not well off, probably just comfortable. That does not exclude PR getting here on his own hard work... just observations!

Yes im just playing Devil a bit Strontium man, so as to keep the thinking coming . No dismissive attitude intended

 

[Strontium69]

Most of the abductions here on WS are assumed to be one-offs...and many victims are never found. But of course it is impossible to know if they’ve done it before until caught. Still, I don’t think it is so dificult to hide a body if you have a car, especially when all of the searching has been in same area, more or less.

Unless they know for sure he never left the neighborhood, I think she could be anywhere. And then, if PR did NOT harm her, she could have ended up in water all on her own, gotten into some other car out of camera range, etc...jmo.

In all practical terms I cannot see that as a possibility. The only water way she could have accidentally fallen is the drain, and they have thoroughly searched that, which is a waterway with barely any current and lots of weed. They would have found her. AND these drains don't just float out to see, they have filters at the end of their course where they meet the river.

If 'they' have thrown her in the river, they must have hit a load of fluke circumstances for the body to be carried away so fast without getting caught on the reeds or the muddy bank, or stuck in an eddy.

 

[Strontium69]

Yup, not dismissing any cud-chewing!

Tis a healthy process, the chewing of cud...

 

[Strontium69]

That would still take a lot of mental strength.

Imagine saying 'no comment' for 4 days wile being interviewed by very experienced detectives about the highest profile investigation in Hull's history.

And not in your native country/language/laws either

 

[Strontium69]

Good to hear your views, much appreciated.

I was surprised how the hammer & screwdriver appeared to be dismissed so easily in the case.
I think the majority of burglars do not walk about with a tool bag, but, use tools available on site at the property, in sheds etc. On this note, I don’t expect students/young ladies in digs would have tools as in building type, so I thought it would be very feasible for someone that has a fetish/urge for entering these type of properties to strategically leave tools hidden in the locality. I hadn’t contemplated the thought that PR would’ve had them in his person in his vehicle.

Yes the hammer/sdriver.

I had assumed that he ditched it early on - it makes no sense to do so after harming Libby - why return to the start of your crime and just throw something that can be forensically traced back to you right at the scene? I don't believe they are insignificant - they at least are tied to PR, if not any crime against Libby. And, I hadn't realised what it was about them that was bugging me... it is like you have said, why haven't they featured more?

Perhaps they are 'unconnected' to LS directly?

Perhaps he had used them earlier in the area; handy tools for getting a window open; perhaps he had snatched a burglary opportunity earlier and had stolen the lipstick from some one's house... either that night, or earlier and it was still in the car?

if he 'knew' he was going to offend later on, still, why now ditch them right at the most blatant part of the crime scene you know you are about to create?

it makes more sense like you suggest, that he had deposited these here earlier, intending to return to pick up, and became distracted with the rest of his night, stalking Libby/a student home from Piper/Newland/Welly.

Hmm... yes... that fits better... thanks...

* The hammer/sdriver/listick are unconnected to Libby, but are part of one of his 'unrelated' offences of burglary/voyuerism etc as per his personal pattern
* He ditched them intending to return to them, but his 'offending' against Libby took him further than he had planned/anticipated, and in the panic he forgot to retrieve them.

 

[Pinkizzy]

Ah okay, I didn't have an occupation in mind, merely that the first ones to arrive and start work tend to then open the door for their national friends to work there. In the UK the meme is Polish builders. For isntance in The Wire their are large groups of Poles working at the docks in Baltimore. So if you're fresh off the boat from Poland and you land in Baltimore, as a complete stranger knowing no-one, chances are you could walk down the docks and find employment right away amongst your fellow Poles, and you're in. I just meant, like a lot of foreign national communities do, they seem to congregate around an occupation, because of the nature of getting each other work.



Yeah, couldn’t figure out how to phrase what I meant?

I simply meant such as;

If I sold my house in London and moved to Hull, I'd be in positive financial equity; I'd be able to buy the same bricks and mortar for about 30% of the house I just sold.. quids in, positive equity is released!

If I tried it the other way round; I sold my 3 bed house in hull, I'm going to be able to buy a one room studio flat with that money; I am trapped by negative equity.

I know Poland isn't the 3rd World... but for a manual worker, it is still an uphill financial move, into negative equity. (There is a current trend in the other direction seeing Western Europeans buying retirement plots in Eastern Europe because you get more bricks for the same money - people are releasing their current equity, and then cashing in a positive equity swap to somewhere cheaper.)



I do agree 100%... I am voicing possibilities, looking for probabilities!

I have nothing but love and admiration for our winged hussar neighbours! They are characterised by hard working families who are a positive benefit to their immediate areas, they not only have integrated perfectly, they have made an effort to IMPROVE the communities they are in.

HOWEVER, it has been pointed out, that there is a darker element these last couple of years. It seems that a lot of the bad people they left behind last decade, have now followed them and are beginning to co-opt their networks. Not speaking specifically about the Poles, but every foreign national community; and even the English are at it, as there are bad people from Manchester who are now taxing Hull's dealers.

I also agree that from what I've seen of the Poles they have done nothing other than work exceptionally hard, and remain family and community focused.

Having taken a look around his home village of Warszewice on Google maps it's doesn't look too bad. However, reading the articles about his mother and sister, they are clearly not well off, probably just comfortable. That does not exclude PR getting here on his own hard work... just observations!

He trained as a chef in Poland, didn't he?

 

[Winterbells]

Woods searched in hunt for Libby Squire

“Sniffer dogs have searched the property in the city where Libby lived”

Also, Humberside Police have an official SM page for their dogs, all posts coming from members of LE. They have advised on there previously that their Victim Recovery & Forensic Evidence search dogs are also cadaver dogs.

I think it’s unlikely that a dog taken into Libby’s house wouldn’t be trained in specifically alerting to a body.

Thanks Stella. So sniffer dogs have searched Libby’s house, but we don’t have any info about cadaver dogs checking out PR’s car, which was what was being discussed in the thread when I asked my original question.

 

[Strontium69]

In the cut through Strontium, near the Croda end barrier, there appeared to be an open drain or coverless drain sat in the tree/ditch line sort of just at the angle of the croda fence but on the cutthrough/park side . Just a square hole . Did you see that? What is it? Ive wondered if the running man has heard v odd noises from there or seen something that hes unsure what it is but odd enough to frighten. A potential temporary stash point? Does the cyclist also see/hear and has the balls to return and double check?

Yes I looked at that myself last Friday...

It's a concrete/brick drain raiser with no lid on it. It's packed with earth and only accesible to about a metre deep, looks totally undisturbed inside.

 

[Strontium69]

Thanks Stella. So sniffer dogs have searched Libby’s house, but we don’t have any info about cadaver dogs checking out PR’s car, which was what was being discussed in the thread when I asked my original question.

Looks like part of the wooded area around the pond.

Wellesley Avenue

End of Haworth Street

Wellesley Avenue

The drain bank, west, stretch of drain south of Beresford Avenue road bridge

looks like the same little fella.

I can't find any pictures of any other dogs.

So not necessarily a cadaver dog, probably a general tracker dog. It was pictured going into PR's home, up and down Wellesley Avenue, teh drain bank, Haworth Street, and in Oak Road fields around the pond.

So yes, the park is A LOT OF GROUND for one small dog to cover, but they aren't searching the entire area with dogs it would seem. They seem to be targeting the dog at very specific areas.

So, given that this hound has PRs scent, has Libby's scent, and was walked around the streets and Oak Road and he has apparently come up blank? We may never know what the dog handler reported...

Has the scent dog been thrown off the scent by the thaw?

BUT there does not seem to have been a blanket search by cadaver dogs of the park area looking for a body. It seems more like they only required one dog, in an attempt to pick up the definitive trail around Wellesley and the park. of either LS or PR.

 

[Strontium69]

I went out the other night about midnight to take a walk around the park, pond, river area. Mainly to get a feel for the area at night.

I was talking into the camera (it's useless visually at night)... trying to walk and talk through events in the park...

As I was talking into the camera, I was interrupted by a kind of scream. The camera mic barely picks it up, but at the time it was quite loud and shrill; I'm guessing a fox.

It was coming from the direction of the turbine. You can hear the turbine swishing round in the audio. It was also very windy.

I went round that way later to try to get a clearer recording but it had stopped.

It was louder than it appears in the video; could this account for the screams? But if that is locals reporting it, then wouldn't they also be used to these fox yells, and didn't one of the witnesses specifically say how much it sounded like a person in real trouble screaming, rather than just 'hearing a scream.'

One scream I've heard in the past that is difficult to forget, is that of a rabbit being torn apart, my first reaction was it sounded like a person screaming.

 

[Eleanor Rigby]

I went out the other night about midnight to take a walk around the park, pond, river area. Mainly to get a feel for the area at night.

I was talking into the camera (it's useless visually at night)... trying to walk and talk through events in the park...

As I was talking into the camera, I was interrupted by a kind of scream. The camera mic barely picks it up, but at the time it was quite loud and shrill; I'm guessing a fox.

It was coming from the direction of the turbine. You can hear the turbine swishing round in the audio. It was also very windy.

I went round that way later to try to get a clearer recording but it had stopped.

It was louder than it appears in the video; could this account for the screams? But if that is locals reporting it, then wouldn't they also be used to these fox yells, and didn't one of the witnesses specifically say how much it sounded like a person in real trouble screaming, rather than just 'hearing a scream.'

One scream I've heard in the past that is difficult to forget, is that of a rabbit being torn apart, my first reaction was it sounded like a person screaming.

I agree. Whenever I've heard a rabbit being killed by a coyote, the scream sounded human to me and was definitely "blood curdling." However, I'm no wildlife expert. Would a man who was not the cause of screaming, whether human or animal, but who heard it, be compelled to run out of a park? JMO.

 

[yoyo1]

- the grounds of the old convent would have been a much closer/more convenient location than the park. It is almost next to where the bench is and away from the police station.

Can you show where this convent is.
I suspect cctv may have PR turning left at the junction into beverly and then right into beresford.