VERDICT WATCH UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, found deceased, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #24

[C.greek]

A rape can't ever be consensual!! But no I do not believe the sex was consensual Libby was far too drunk to give consent. I would have thought someone who has just committed murder would not be able to drive off in the calm manner he did (even as a poster mentioned indicating) and instead of getting home and hiding and pacing around trembling thinking what have I done goes out driving round the streets and walking seen on cctv. I would not think this the usual behaviour for any murderer!

Well, this doesn't trouble me the least. it appears (reading WS )murderers are indeed calm, calculating and nobody would know they committed a murder. Of course this doesn't apply to all but if all murderers were terrified of what they have done and felt horrible afterwards,there wouldn't be a need to lock them in for life since as it sounds from what you and others are describing they wouldn't offend again.JMO

 

[Dotta]

One more thing about the jacket - if PR had put it on the back seat of his car, Libby's DNA would have been found there (by transference) So I think it was her or sb else who took the jacket off.

 

[porkypies]

The only thoughts I have is PR did not really seem to be concerned about breaking the law so I do not think he would have worried about flying his drone any where he wanted. We do not know if he flew it over houses but I suspect if he did we may have heard about it. We do know he flew it over the park the day before he abducted and raped Libby. How relevant that is we do not know. But is it interesting. MOO

My thoughts are that the purpose of the drone was to be able to fly it over the river to check after the event, and possibly a change of mind due to the level of police and public activity.

 

[HLC35]

A rape can't ever be consensual!! But no I do not believe the sex was consensual Libby was far too drunk to give consent. I would have thought someone who has just committed murder would not be able to drive off in the calm manner he did (even as a poster mentioned indicating) and instead of getting home and hiding and pacing around trembling thinking what have I done goes out driving round the streets and walking seen on cctv. I would not think this the usual behaviour for any murderer!

But that’s just it; he’s UNusual, even for a murderer...he plays football/flies a drone with his 2 year old son in the park and plays peek-a-boo with his 3 month old baby, puts them to bed, then goes out to play ‘peek-a-boo’ on the neighbours, then back to the park to lurk about a bit, then back to the streets to lurk, then back to the park again to rape (and IMO murder), then home for quick wash and change of clothes and , (maybe checks in on his children fast asleep) then goes back out to the park for a quick lurk, then back to the streets to play peek-a-boo again and masturbate. Then send the drone up again a day or so later. Eat, offend, repeat, for 3+ years. All IMO

 

[C.greek]

We are going round and round in the same circles all the time. Everybody has their own theory and is not going to be convinced otherwise. Him running to and fro in the park seems too convulted for me and thus unbelievable. But of course everyone is entitled to their opinion.

I think you are being too harsh on us we are deliberating and if you check the poll it seems people are still changing their minds....Edited for focus

 

[Legally Bland]

The problem I have with this is about PR cracking on with his evening after murdering her. I would have thought someone who has just committed their first murder would be in a state of shock and would rush home asap and lie low for quite some time worried sick about being caught not go straight out in the street masturbating and looking for more women.

I agree. Not ever having been known for violence, would he have been so casual after knowingly committed murder as we see him on the CCTV later that night.

I wonder why his wife wasn't called to give a character account and what he was like on that night and in the subsequent days after.

I'm not sure you can rationalise what a serial predatory sexual offender's behaviour would be like after committing his first murder. I doubt the thought processes are the same as yours or mine.

 

[Catsarse]

Well, this doesn't trouble me the least. it appears (reading WS )murderers are indeed calm, calculating and nobody would know they committed a murder. Of course this doesn't apply to all but if all murderers were terrified of what they have done and felt horrible afterwards,there wouldn't be a need to lock them in for life since as you and others make it sound they wouldn't offend again.JMO

I don’t think anyone is saying they’re safe after their first murder and they won’t do it again. I do completely agree with what they’re saying, his behaviour seems like he really hasn’t caused or believes he’s caused a death.
In fact the longer I’m on here the more I’m changing my views
I’m starting to wonder was Libby passed out/very near passed out to the point he had sex with her (of course rape) but he’s sold it to himself that it’s ok?
Has she scratched him or started to struggle to the point he smothers her, making her unconscious and he finished having sex (so sorry to be graphic) and then left her on oak road or in the park?

Of course all my own musings but in this scenario I can see why he’d go back to orpf to see if she was there and then go back out in the prowl to masturbate-does he think she’s walked off and hopes he’s got away with raping her?
I’m just very surprised if he raped and killed Libby, and either put her in the river immediately or on visit no 3, that he’d also then go out prowling and wanking. It does make me wonder if he believed himself Libby was still alive at that point?

All moo imo

 

[tigerowl]

I think you are being too harsh on us we are deliberating and if you check the poll it seems people are still changing their minds....Edited for focus

Is there an easy way of finding the poll without having to find @Tortoise last post? I'm probably being really daft but I can't see it

 

[tedtink]

and it's not even the defence's suggested scenario.

That's true.

I think they went down the mental health and 'cry for help' route so they could lots more weight behind their theory as it would have more impact, than the 'wandered off theory'.

Also we don't really know what her friends said.

The problem I have with the 'cry for help' theory is that it's exactly that!
During such acts sufferers subconsciously WANT someone to notice in order to receive help, so why do it far away from where you will be noticed?

 

[C.greek]

Is there an easy way of finding the poll without having to find @Tortoise last post? I'm probably being really daft but I can't see it

Have you changed your mind?
Not sure if this is the correct way to link it?
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/amended-poll-uk-libby-squire.558397/

 

[C.greek]

I'm not sure you can rationalise what a serial predatory sexual offender's behaviour would be like after committing his first murder. I doubt the thought processes are the same as yours or mine.

Exactly this! So well put. Thank you

 

[Challwood]

I don’t think anyone is saying they’re safe after their first murder and they won’t do it again. I do completely agree with what they’re saying, his behaviour seems like he really hasn’t caused or believes he’s caused a death.
In fact the longer I’m on here the more I’m changing my views
I’m starting to wonder was Libby passed out/very near passed out to the point he had sex with her (of course rape) but he’s sold it to himself that it’s ok?
Has she scratched him or started to struggle to the point he smothers her, making her unconscious and he finished having sex (so sorry to be graphic) and then left her on oak road or in the park?

Of course all my own musings but in this scenario I can see why he’d go back to orpf to see if she was there and then go back out in the prowl to masturbate-does he think she’s walked off and hopes he’s got away with raping her?
I’m just very surprised if he raped and killed Libby, and either put her in the river immediately or on visit no 3, that he’d also then go out prowling and wanking. It does make me wonder if he believed himself Libby was still alive at that point?

All moo imo

Your scenario for visit 2 is much the same as my own thoughts have been leading, however I’m wondering if when he later returned to oak road to relive his sexual encounter with Libby, he possibly found her still exactly where he’d left her laying in the snow (not screaming/shouting at him as he drove away as he claims) and this is when he may have placed her dead or dying into the river.
All MOO
I believe he was caught on cctv on Newlands Avenue after this 3rd visit with a wet knee on his newly put on jogging bottoms. Have we heard any explanation from him for how they got wet?

 

[Sally4x]

One more thing about the jacket - if PR had put it on the back seat of his car, Libby's DNA would have been found there (by transference) So I think it was her or sb else who took the jacket off.

IMO Libby’s jacket and top came off once she was in the river.

 

[ChiCubs2016]

My thoughts are that the purpose of the drone was to be able to fly it over the river to check after the event, and possibly a change of mind due to the level of police and public activity.

I thought the same thing. It would be interesting to know what areas he flew over the day before.

 

[ChiCubs2016]

Thankfully none of us can imagine or think what PR would think after he raped/murdered Libby. Because we do not have that mindset. It surprised me he continued the night like it was not a big deal but it also does not surprise me. My first thought is how could he do that, but then I say the same thing about all his crimes. I cannot think that way because I would never do anything even close to what he has done. I say that about every criminal on this forum. And every time I think I have seen/read the worse, the next thread opens and I realize it does get worse. MOO
Edit to add a word

 

[Dotta]

Thankfully none of us can imagine or think what PR would think after he raped/murdered Libby. Because we do not have that mindset. It surprised me he continued the night like it was not a big deal but it also does not surprise me. My first thought is how could he do that, but then I say the same thing about all his crimes. I cannot think that way because I would never do anything even close to what he has done. I say that about every criminal on this forum. And every time I think I have seen/read the worse, the next thread opens and I realize it does get worse. MOO
Edit to add a word

Yes. I still think about horrific murder of Louise beaten to death by Shane Mays. Poor poor girl, I cried while following her case.

 

[Loobyloo]

<snip>
I wonder why his wife wasn't called to give a character account and what he was like on that night and in the subsequent days after.

Perhaps she chose not to testify? I don't think she could be forced to do so in this sort of case, due to spousal privilege.
Spousal privilege - Wikipedia

 

[Loobyloo]

I wonder why they don't make the jury equal and have 6 men and 6 women. And what would happen if the jury came back completely divided on all 3 verdicts murder, manslaughter and not guilty. Does it just take one person majority to accept a verdict e.g. If it was 3 not guilty, 4 manslaughter and 5 murder would it then be classed as majority murder?

No - in England it has to be 11 out of the 12 (or 10 out of 11 if one juror has had to drop out) for a majority verdict.

(ETA that this is the English system - Scotland has 15 on a jury & allows a simple majority, 8-7)

 

[Joolz1975]

A rape can't ever be consensual!! But no I do not believe the sex was consensual Libby was far too drunk to give consent. I would have thought someone who has just committed murder would not be able to drive off in the calm manner he did (even as a poster mentioned indicating) and instead of getting home and hiding and pacing around trembling thinking what have I done goes out driving round the streets and walking seen on cctv. I would not think this the usual behaviour for any murderer!

To me if he had left her alive after raping her he would be more worried because he could expect that she maybe phone the police and they could be there looking for evidence.

The fact he was brazen enough to go back a 3rd time after raping her leads me to think that he knew she was dead and in the river and unlikely to be found anytime soon.

I think he went back to check she body had moved from where he put her in or to retrieve something he lost.

 

[Via Marple]

I know my fact checking didn't go down too well last time, but since there is this weekend while waiting for the verdict, I suppose I can do some belated calculations here. Take it as you will, FYI.....

According to this site, the average running pace for a man between 20-24 years, is about 9:30 minutes per mile

The average walking pace on country footpaths according to this site (no distinction among sexes or ages), is about 12 minutes per km.

There are other averages if you are interested.

Using a pace calculator at this other site, if assuming someone walks at a country path pace for 350m, the time needed is a little over 4 minutes


If assuming someone runs at a young man's average pace for 350m, the time needed is a bit over 2 minutes

Links:
Learn Your Pace With Our Running Pace Calculator
Walks and treks FAQs