GUILTY UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, found deceased, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #25

[C.greek]

That it was not PR cleaning his car that morning BT saw trying to remove all traces of the previous night...? That BT was mistaken in thinking it was PR...?

What a coincidence don't you think? Another neighbour in 0 degrees cleaning his car and mats the day after Libby was taken and raped by PR.

 

[Dotta]

Not sure what we got out of that. We got just a snippet from defence questioning the witness. I am not even sure we got it right. So for me I still go with the witness statement.

Witness might mix up the days. What is a fact - the day and time he testified don't match with cctv as Defence stated.

 

[Becky53]

Timings do not add up, defence claims

Mr Saxby refers to the evidence on neighbour Hannah Durkin who says she heard screams at 12.30am on February 1, 2019.

He said: "She [Hannah Durkin] did remember when she last checked her phone it was 12.30am. Sam Alford had real problems.

"To me, if Sam Alford was wrong about the times and when he checked the phone, the answer is straight forward - they were hearing the same thing at the same time and the screams happened later.

"If there were two sets of screams one at around 12.15am and another at 12.30am you will need to consider whether they were from different people. No - consider there the likelihood of two women on the playing fields screaming and panicking intermittently - it’s pretty unlikely isn’t it.

“If it was the same person then Libby Squire was still alive at 12.30am and Pawel Relowicz could not have killed her."


Libby Squire's death 'may have been suicide' says Relowicz defence

Of course Mr Saxby is going to say that - he’s not going to agree with SA’s timings is he. How does he know that HD was correct with her times - was he there too?

 

[ChiCubs2016]

Timings do not add up, defence claims

Mr Saxby refers to the evidence on neighbour Hannah Durkin who says she heard screams at 12.30am on February 1, 2019.

He said: "She [Hannah Durkin] did remember when she last checked her phone it was 12.30am. Sam Alford had real problems.

"To me, if Sam Alford was wrong about the times and when he checked the phone, the answer is straight forward - they were hearing the same thing at the same time and the screams happened later.

"If there were two sets of screams one at around 12.15am and another at 12.30am you will need to consider whether they were from different people. No - consider there the likelihood of two women on the playing fields screaming and panicking intermittently - it’s pretty unlikely isn’t it.

“If it was the same person then Libby Squire was still alive at 12.30am and Pawel Relowicz could not have killed her."


Libby Squire's death 'may have been suicide' says Relowicz defence

The thing about this is The Defense is quick to suggest SA is incorrect and HD is correct. I believe HD’s statement said “about 12:30”. Now maybe there was more stated than was reported but just like The Prosecutor is putting more emphasis on SA’s time, the Defense is emphasizing HD’s time. Hopefully there was more for the jury to discuss. I also wonder if it was mentioned and not reported if the CCTV times coincided with SA and HD’s phone? Sometimes CCTV timing is off a minute or 2. Did the CCTV time showing them arriving at the park coincide with the time showing PR heading home? I guess we would have heard of it did not. MOO

 

[Dotta]

DBM double post

 

[Mommysleuth11]

Maybe he just left her for dead the first time, before realising while he was having a nice hot bath that she could still be lying there in the freezing cold. On his return he realised she was dead and the river was an obvious means of instant disposal.

I do appreciate all this is pinned on the shed area NOT being the scene of the crime, but we only have his word that it was and I really don’t trust his word. At the point he was arrested and questioned Libby hadn’t been found and only he would know she was in the water, so he had to keep his version of events far away from the river.

Instant would rely on her being within touching distance though and I still can't fathom why he wouldn't have 'taken care' of the disposal element there and then on the first visit if it was possible in say 30 seconds?

Oh I absolutely do not believe one word he says about anything, not least the green shed. Although I do think its curious it was mentioned at all and must hold some kind of relevance to him, not necessarily to do with Libbys disappearance.

I do think it is likely/probable even that he took her into the park/playing fields area but I still keep drawing a blank when attempting to fit the different scenarios to the different timings ie, total length of time + witness reports.

I am eager for the Jury's verdict, more than ever now so this whole ordeal can one way or another have some kind of end and completeness for the sake of her family friends and loved ones, though I realise life will never,ever be for them, what it was before 31st January 2019 and for that and the loss of Libbys bright and promising future, I will feel eternal sadness.
I do apologise if my lack of certainty in the ability of PR to have carried out the acts alleged in the times suggested has ever made it appear otherwise. Above all else I really just want Justice to be served for Libby and her family, whatever that looks like ❤.

 

[Ruthbullock]

Not sure what we got out of that. We got just a snippet from defence questioning the witness. I am not even sure we got it right. So for me I still go with the witness statement.

The statement from the defence was his car wasn’t parked there during the time the witness said it was, it was around the corner unless it evaded CCTV (which it was said there was no way of doing by a Police witness.) As it wasn’t brought up in closing statements, I think his witness statement was disregarded.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I am afraid Vermont will arise suspicions wandering in the park all the time taking pictures and spying on CCTV cameras

It’s ok as long as he is wearing his Websleuths lanyard

 

[ChiCubs2016]

Witness might mix up the days. What is a fact - the day and time he testified don't match with cctv as Defence stated.

I think the text he received from his partner would clear up the date and time.

 

[Deleted member 239019]

The key phrase here is last checked her phone. Whereas SA checked his phone when he woke up. From the above, it appears that neither the defence nor the prosecution disregard the screams as being foxes. It is terribly surreal to imagine Libby screaming after the rape on her own in the park. I go with the probabilities that the two student witnesses miscalculated the time. In their first statement, they had said around 12 30. So for me the key evidence remains still that a man was seen walking out of the park after the screams were heard.

They dont seem as convinced of their times as the witness that said he checked his phone at 12.14. They may have rounded the time up as they wasnt sure. This is why if you are uncertain of the actual facts you shouldn't assume ...it could have been around 12.30? But that doesnt mean it was 12.30

 

[ben2021]

Hi. Have been reading some of the posts on here because I live in Hull when I'm not at uni. I'd just like to say I know the park well. I walk the dog there. I don't have any issues with the timing at all. No issues with the 7.5 minutes and none with the 4.5 minutes. There isn't a reason for anyone to be in the park at that time of night in the middle of winter. How many rape victims conveniently fall in rivers?

 

[C.greek]

The statement from the defence was his car wasn’t parked there during the time the witness said it was, it was around the corner unless it evaded CCTV (which it was said there was no way of doing by a Police witness.) As it wasn’t brought up in closing statements, I think his witness statement was disregarded.

I am not sure if we have even seen the complete closing statements. Actually I seriously doubt it as we saw earlier today with SA's statement.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Yes in the very top right corner with arrows- I’m no good at finding and linking posts in previous threads- can someone else have a look and link please

I don’t know about this either. Have we discussed these feet?

 

[NottReds50]

I don’t know about this either. Have we discussed these feet?

Libby Squire trial CCTV

This I believe, looks like the markers are pointing at indicator lights, rather than feet

 

[Chambo1994]

Hi. Have been reading some of the posts on here because I live in Hull when I'm not at uni. I'd just like to say I know the park well. I walk the dog there. I don't have any issues with the timing at all. No issues with the 7.5 minutes and none with the 4.5 minutes. There isn't a reason for anyone to be in the park at that time of night in the middle of winter. How many rape victims conveniently fall in rivers?

There are no laws that say you can not enter a public park in the UK past a certain time, so PR does not need a reason to be in a park at that time of night, nor does anyone else...

p.s. welcome...

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Libby Squire trial CCTV

This I believe, looks like the markers are pointing at indicator lights, rather than feet

Thanks, I need to watch this again on a bigger screen. I thought it was all just lights.

At what time on the video are the feet @Ruth ?

 

[Ruthbullock]

Libby Squire trial CCTV

This I believe, looks like the markers are pointing at indicator lights, rather than feet

Just about to watch it again, I couldn’t make out much at all- but as it’s been stated two people got out and one got back in, I can only assume you can see two pairs of feet leaving and one returning on an enhanced big screen- sadly a phone screen just doesn’t cut it when I look at it.
ETA: I realise we know that was the case due to circumstances, but it was stated as shown by CCTV, lots of us thought it would be the yeast factory CCTV that showed it.

 

[PitchforkRed]

Libby Squire trial CCTV

This I believe, looks like the markers are pointing at indicator lights, rather than feet

Thank you, hadn't seen that before, couldn't see much but was quite eerie to watch

 

[MsMiniSleuth]

Of course Mr Saxby is going to say that - he’s not going to agree with SA’s timings is he. How does he know that HD was correct with her times - was he there too?

How do we know any of them were, come to that? We don't, not 100%. Therein lies the doubt.

 

[Sally4x]

Now that I don’t know. Told her it was a shortcut to her house? Being a gent and walking her home safely? Kind of marched / coerced her there in her drunken state? We’ll never find out, sadly.

I don’t see it like that even. I don’t think she went into his car willingly. From what I can see on the CCTV he was stalking her and hiding in the shadows from her. I have seen him grabbing her by the arms on Beverley Road and her pushing him off. Then I think he was sitting hiding in his car doorway waiting for the other car to leave before he made his move and put Libby in his car. There must have been some reason for her watch to come off.

I don’t think he acted like a gentleman and pretended he was taking her home at all. I see the whole thing as a planned attack once he had seen her and the state she was in. I’m not sure if he meant to kill her, but I’m certain he planned to take her to ORPF because he had been scoping the area out for a while and had even been there earlier that evening. I think if it hadn’t been Libby it would have been someone else. I think she was a very easy victim because of the state she was in. I then think she died during the rape or he killed her to stop her screaming and left her there and went home, washed his clothes and had a bath and whilst doing that worried that he had left evidence. I then think he went back to ORPF and put her in the river and then the resulting adrenaline of it all led him to go and do his usual hobby of mastubating in the street. This is all MOO.