GUILTY UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, found deceased, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #25

[Ruthbullock]

I still can’t make out much on a phone (can literally see movement and arrows)- but here’s something else I have now noticed- the yeast factory CCTV shows someone at the riverbank at 12.19 and then it cuts to PR getting in his car also time stamped at 12.19
There is movement of bodies walking in front of the car lights as they are on, like I said I couldn’t say I can see it clearly, but that’s not unusual on a small screen.

 

[tedtink]

Hi. Have been reading some of the posts on here because I live in Hull when I'm not at uni. I'd just like to say I know the park well. I walk the dog there. I don't have any issues with the timing at all. No issues with the 7.5 minutes and none with the 4.5 minutes. There isn't a reason for anyone to be in the park at that time of night in the middle of winter. How many rape victims conveniently fall in rivers?

Exactly!
Thank you.
'Fresh eyes' usually tell it as it is

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I don’t see it like that even. I don’t think she went into his car willingly. From what I can see on the CCTV he was stalking her and hiding in the shadows from her. I have seen him grabbing her by the arms on Beverley Road and her pushing him off. Then I think he was sitting hiding in his car doorway waiting for the other car to leave before he made his move and put Libby in his car. There must have been some reason for her watch to come off.

I don’t think he acted like a gentleman and pretended he was taking her home at all. I see the whole thing as a planned attack once he had seen her and the state she was in. I’m not sure if he meant to kill her, but I’m certain he planned to take her to ORPF because he had been scoping the area out for a while and had even been there earlier that evening. I think if it hadn’t been Libby it would have been someone else. I think she was a very easy victim because of the state she was in. I then think she died during the rape or he killed her to stop her screaming and left her there and went home, washed his clothes and had a bath and whilst doing that worried that he had left evidence. I then think he went back to ORPF and put her in the river and then the resulting adrenaline of it all led him to go and do his usual hobby of mastubating in the street. This is all MOO.

Yeah, I don’t mean he WAS being a gentleman, I mean that’s what he wanted her to think, so she’d go with him.

Another thing which backs up his clear intent to attack - why drive down a dead end road in the first place? It wasn’t a wrong turn because he knew the area well, and I doubt he thought she lived down that dark lane.

 

[Sally4x]

Yeah, I don’t mean he WAS being a gentleman, I mean that’s what he wanted her to think, so she’d go with him.

Another thing which backs up his clear intent to attack - why drive down a dead end road in the first place? It wasn’t a wrong turn because he knew the area well, and I doubt he thought she lived down that dark lane.

Because he was going for a run in the university grounds! No as you say him parking there totally showed intent.

 

[Miss_French]

Just about to watch it again, I couldn’t make out much at all- but as it’s been stated two people got out and one got back in, I can only assume you can see two pairs of feet leaving and one returning on an enhanced big screen- sadly a phone screen just doesn’t cut it when I look at it.
ETA: I realise we know that was the case due to circumstances, but it was stated as shown by CCTV, lots of us thought it would be the yeast factory CCTV that showed it.

Rather than 'getting out' it's referred to as 2 people arrived and 1 person left (ORPF), but that could be from CCTV on the main roads catching how many were in the car.

 

[Dotta]

They dont seem as convinced of their times as the witness that said he checked his phone at 12.14. They may have rounded the time up as they wasnt sure. This is why if you are uncertain of the actual facts you shouldn't assume ...it could have been around 12.30? But that doesnt mean it was 12.30

But they called the police the next day as far as I remember (so their memory was *fresh*). SA notified the police much later.

 

[Ruthbullock]

Rather than 'getting out' it's referred to as 2 people arrived and 1 person left (ORPF), but that could be from CCTV on the main roads catching how many were in the car.

Perhaps- we saw the footage as he left, but not arriving. There is body movements though in front of the vehicle lights (but that’s all I can make out)

 

[CoverMeCagney]

The Croda footage showed

running man 1:13
cycling man 1:24 then 1:34
walking couple 2:34

Was it 2:25-2:29 that PR was back at the park? You’d think walking couple would have at least seen the car there or driving away.

 

[Financejane]

Libby Squire trial CCTV

This I believe, looks like the markers are pointing at indicator lights, rather than feet

Are there any issues with the clock on those videos as it appears they have got out of the car and lights flash again at 00:12. Then the car is moving by 0.18? I’m not sure what the picture is showing when it pans across the park

Edit to add - or is it moving by 0.19 and the cctv panning the park is a shadow of movement at 0.18

added “at 0.18” for clarity

 

[Deleted member 239019]

There are no laws that say you can not enter a public park in the UK past a certain time, so PR does not need a reason to be in a park at that time of night, nor does anyone else...

p.s. welcome...

Does

Just about to watch it again, I couldn’t make out much at all- but as it’s been stated two people got out and one got back in, I can only assume you can see two pairs of feet leaving and one returning on an enhanced big screen- sadly a phone screen just doesn’t cut it when I look at it.
ETA: I realise we know that was the case due to circumstances, but it was stated as shown by CCTV, lots of us thought it would be the yeast factory CCTV that showed it.

Is this where the CCTV was on the yeast factory?

 

[Ruthbullock]

Are there any issues with the clock on those videos as it appears they have got out of the car and lights flash again at 00:12. Then the car is moving by 0.18? I’m not sure what the picture is showing when it pans across the park

Edit to add - or is it moving by 0.19 and the cctv panning the park is a shadow of movement?

Car is moving at 00.19 and the cctv panning shows a shadow at the rivers edge at the same time- can anyone just ring up and grab the notes that accompany the CCTV so we can see what the arrows show, please it would help.

 

[Ruthbullock]

Is this where the CCTV was on the yeast factory?

I’m not local, but I believe the yeast factory is the building to the left of the one you circled.

 

[Financejane]

Car is moving at 00.19 and the cctv panning shows a shadow at the rivers edge at the same time- can anyone just ring up and grab the notes that accompany the CCTV so we can see what the arrows show, please it would help.

So only a minute apart if that

 

[Becky53]

Timings do not add up, defence claims

Mr Saxby refers to the evidence on neighbour Hannah Durkin who says she heard screams at 12.30am on February 1, 2019.

He said: "She [Hannah Durkin] did remember when she last checked her phone it was 12.30am. Sam Alford had real problems.

"To me, if Sam Alford was wrong about the times and when he checked the phone, the answer is straight forward - they were hearing the same thing at the same time and the screams happened later.

"If there were two sets of screams one at around 12.15am and another at 12.30am you will need to consider whether they were from different people. No - consider there the likelihood of two women on the playing fields screaming and panicking intermittently - it’s pretty unlikely isn’t it.

“If it was the same person then Libby Squire was still alive at 12.30am and Pawel Relowicz could not have killed her."


Libby Squire's death 'may have been suicide' says Relowicz defence

Of course Mr Saxby is going to say that - he’s not going to agree with SA’s timings is he. How does he know that HD was correct with her times - was he there too?

The thing about this is The Defense is quick to suggest SA is incorrect and HD is correct. I believe HD’s statement said “about 12:30”. Now maybe there was more stated than was reported but just like The Prosecutor is putting more emphasis on SA’s time, the Defense is emphasizing HD’s time. Hopefully there was more for the jury to discuss. I also wonder if it was mentioned and not reported if the CCTV times coincided with SA and HD’s phone? Sometimes CCTV timing is off a minute or 2. Did the CCTV time showing them arriving at the park coincide with the time showing PR heading home? I guess we would have heard of it did not. MOO

I agree with you - just failed to say prosecution completely dismissed student timings in my post.

 

[porkypies]

It would depend where he was taking any object to and from.
I can't understand if her left Libby so close to the river it would have taken mere seconds to then put here in, why he wouldn't have just done this the first time?
Why leave her that close and have to risk going back again a further time?
If she was much further away then obviously the answer would likely be longer?

I think he was disturbed by the vixen screaming and ran for it, it was a secluded spot and he had intended to stay a little longer. He knew people might be looking for her at that time and the screaming might bring them to the park, I don't think he had intended to have to go back later. It's possible that things went wrong for him that night. I also wonder now, if he himself does not know what killed her, he just went back and disposed of her, and that could have been luck on his side that there was no-one else there at 2.30am. and she was either dead or unconscious.

 

[Ruthbullock]

So only a minute apart if that

The yeast factory footage tips over to 12.19

 

[Ruthbullock]

I think he was disturbed by the vixen screaming and ran for it, it was a secluded spot and he had intended to stay a little longer. He knew people might be looking for her at that time and the screaming might bring them to the park, I don't think he had intended to have to go back later. It's possible that things went wrong for him that night. I also wonder now, if he himself does not know what killed her, he just went back and disposed of her, and that could have been luck on his side that there was no-one else there at 2.30am. and she was either dead or unconscious.

All very possible and not something that I’ve considered before

 

[CoverMeCagney]

dbm

 

[Tortoise]

Of course Mr Saxby is going to say that - he’s not going to agree with SA’s timings is he. How does he know that HD was correct with her times - was he there too?


I agree with you - just failed to say prosecution completely dismissed student timings in my post.

Did the prosecution dismiss the student timings?

 

[Cherwell]

The Croda footage showed
running man 1:13
cycling man 1:24 then 1:34
walking couple 2:34
Was it 2:25-2:29 that PR was back at the park? You’d think walking couple would have at least seen the car there or driving away.

We're back to where they could have been coming from. It depends if they came from the ORPF end. Maybe they didn't.

I can't remember if it was mentioned, but old Streetview shows several houses at that end of Oak Road. In satellite view they seem to have been demolished, at least the ones the far side of the Croda entrance. If they were there and inhabited two years ago, the couple could have come from there, so wouldn't have been near the ORPF. The only other thing I can think of is that they were coming off a work shift, perhaps cleaners at the Mecca, something like that.