GUILTY UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, found deceased, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #25

[Cherwell]

Are we seriously saying the Croda CCTV shows one or more people at the riverbank? When I looked at it I assumed it was people's imagination.

I am confident that if it showed any hint of that it would have been picked up by the police. They would have access to better enhancement facilities than most (any?) of us.

 

[Becky53]

The defence did though, but I haven't seen that their timing was challenged by the prosecution.

I didn’t say the defence didn’t call them though - and who knows if prosecution challenged them with what snippets are reported in HDM - I just said prosecution didn’t call them to stand.

 

[ben2021]

Exactly!
Thank you.
'Fresh eyes' usually tell it as it is

Thank you

 

[Ruthbullock]

I could be wrong and missed something but the students statement said “about 12:30”. The defense in his statement added she looked at her phone. Again I could have missed something. MOO

You are right it is as around 12.30- so nearer half past than the quarter past as that is how people naturally round up or down time. I would say if I looked at my phone and saw 12.19 it was around the quarter past. 12.21 debatable what I would say, but four minutes after quarter past you would say around quarter past. JMO and you may disagree, if it had been a few minutes later I may have wondered myself- but if she heard screams before 12.19, and had looked at her phone around the time- I don’t think she would have said half past.

 

[Ruthbullock]

Can you not see the headlights flash at 00:58 between the arrows?

I can’t either, but blame small screen syndrome

 

[CoverMeCagney]

No absolutely not, I just don’t know what I’m supposed to be seeing, I struggle to see how it would be car headlights. Nor do I see it’s relevance if it is headlights as we have much clearer footage of the car leaving.

You're right, it's not particularly relevant, but what that footage shows is the 4 occasions his car lights were caught on camera which is what pinpoints the 7.5 minutes he was not in the car. There are no people or shadowy figures on the riverbank, just car movement.

 

[ChiCubs2016]

You are right it is as around 12.30- so nearer half past than the quarter past as that is how people naturally round up or down time. I would say if I looked at my phone and saw 12.19 it was around the quarter past. 12.21 debatable what I would say, but four minutes after quarter past you would say around quarter past. JMO and you may disagree, if it had been a few minutes later I may have wondered myself- but if she heard screams before 12.19, and had looked at her phone around the time- I don’t think she would have said half past.

I was just mentioned that the student did not say she looked at her phone, that I recall reading. The defense added in she looked at her phone. From the students statement read in court, we did not hear how she determined the time! Again, it could have been mentioned another time that she looked at her phone but from what I recall the statement did not mention looking at her phone. My thoughts are, and I am a crazy person, if I heard what seemed like screams and looked at my phone I would know the exact time! Not about. MOO

 

[tedtink]

The CCTV clearly shows the unlocking (flashes) of the car at 00.19am -
The home CCTV footage corresponds with that a little further on in the video.

If there was someone on the river bank we'd have known about it.


Libby Squire trial CCTV

 

[VicBlazey]

You must avoid WS then, if you get a murder case!

Yes definitely!!

 

[Steve2021]

Thanks all. I meant the Mauri yeast CCTV not the Croda but you obviously all realised that.

 

[Newthoughts]

It would depend where he was taking any object to and from.
I can't understand if her left Libby so close to the river it would have taken mere seconds to then put here in, why he wouldn't have just done this the first time?
Why leave her that close and have to risk going back again a further time?
If she was much further away then obviously the answer would likely be longer?

To check she's been washed away

 

[Tortoise]

I didn’t say the defence didn’t call them though - and who knows if prosecution challenged them with what snippets are reported in HDM - I just said prosecution didn’t call them to stand.

Okay but we can't assume from an absence of reporting that the student timings were dismissed by the prosecution, when we heard the male student was challenged on whether he heard human screams, not the time he heard them.

 

[Newthoughts]

People saying 7.5 mins isnt enough to rape and murder someone?

1) he probably lasted a minute.
2) he probably held her mouth closed whilst rape was happening?

How is there not enough time?
You all know the playing fields isnt as big as google maps portrays it to be right?

Yes 100% agree! I'd probably say less for the rape.

 

[C.greek]

It wasn’t common knowledge the next day that a student was missing- my friends daughter lived very very close to where PR picked up LS and was a student at the time (I posted about this before PR had even been taken into custody as my friend always parked her minibus where spidercam was, when visiting). It was only after PR was charged for his other crimes that they were told for the first time about being vigilant.
ETA it wasn’t “about”- she looked at her clock at 12.30, so they knew it was after that point.

According to this there were hundreds of students searching for Libby on Saturday the 2nd of February.
Coastguard helping in search for missing student

"On Saturday, around 200 students were out looking for Miss Squire, who was reported missing after getting into a taxi outside the Welly Club on Beverley Road, Hull, at around 11pm on Thursday."

So the student community knew a fellow student was missing much earlier than you suggest.

And with regards to the time:

"Mr B's partner HD has been called to the witness box.

She says it was at around 12.30am that she last checked her phone on February 1.

Miss D said she heard a “high-pitched female scream”....

Miss D said she decided to call the police after seeing reports that Libby had gone missing after being dropped off at Wellesley Avenue"

And

"Mr B says it was around 12.30am that he heard the scream. He says he checked the time."


Pawel Relowicz returns to witness stand as week two of trial ends

 

[Newthoughts]

Hi. Have been reading some of the posts on here because I live in Hull when I'm not at uni. I'd just like to say I know the park well. I walk the dog there. I don't have any issues with the timing at all. No issues with the 7.5 minutes and none with the 4.5 minutes. There isn't a reason for anyone to be in the park at that time of night in the middle of winter. How many rape victims conveniently fall in rivers?

Yes! 100% agree. How many rape victims do end up in rivers?

 

[Ruthbullock]

I was just mentioned that the student did not say she looked at her phone, that I recall reading. The defense added in she looked at her phone. From the students statement read in court, we did not hear how she determined the time! Again, it could have been mentioned another time that she looked at her phone but from what I recall the statement did not mention looking at her phone. My thoughts are, and I am a crazy person, if I heard what seemed like screams and looked at my phone I would know the exact time! Not about. MOO

This may or may not help...
He said it was his partner, HD, who checked what time it was.

Ms D also gave evidence and told the court they had gone to bed around 11.30 pm and were “chatting” in bed.
She last checked her phone, she said, at 12.30am.

“Out of nowhere I heard a high-pitched female scream,” she told the court.

“When I heard the first noise I told D to be quiet so I could listen further.
Man heard screams of 'fright' from field where student was allegedly murdered
Lots more direct quotes in the article to provide context, edited by me to change names to initials

 

[Mommysleuth11]

To check she's been washed away

I understand what you're saying but that wasn't the context of the question I was replying to.

It was in the context of timings and visit 3 being used for body disposal to make the timings fit more easily, so was in the content of Libby not already having being disposed of into the river.

 

[Alyce]

dbm - just read timings from a previous post

 

[porkypies]

According to this there were hundreds of students searching for Libby on Saturday the 2nd of February.
Coastguard helping in search for missing student

"On Saturday, around 200 students were out looking for Miss Squire, who was reported missing after getting into a taxi outside the Welly Club on Beverley Road, Hull, at around 11pm on Thursday."

So the student community knew a fellow student was missing much earlier than you suggest.

And with regards to the time:

"Mr B's partner HD has been called to the witness box.

She says it was at around 12.30am that she last checked her phone on February 1.

Miss D said she heard a “high-pitched female scream”....

Miss D Durkin said she decided to call the police after seeing reports that Libby had gone missing after being dropped off at Wellesley Avenue"

And

"Mr B says it was around 12.30am that he heard the scream. He says he checked the time."


Pawel Relowicz returns to witness stand as week two of trial ends

So that is with regard to the timing, but I recall Mr B saying that he initially thought the screaming was a fox though HD thought it was human, Mr B I think agreed that they could have been/were human.
It appears to be the witness's opinions, and there is no evidence or proof either way.

 

[Steve2021]

Mr Brewster's partner Hannah Durkin has been called to the witness box.

She says it was at around 12.30am that she last checked her phone on February 1.

Miss Durkin said she heard a “high-pitched female scream”.

She said: “I told Drew to be quiet so I could listen further and I heard it around three times. It lasted five to ten seconds each scream and there was a period of 15 to 20 second between the screams that I heard.

"My bedroom was at the back of the house. It sounded like it was coming from the right hand side of Oak Road playing fields. It was just screams that I heard.

“It sounded panicking, that was my initial thought.”

Miss Durkin said she decided to call the police after seeing reports that Libby had gone missing after being dropped off at Wellesley Avenue, “just a few streets away.”

But Mr Brewster admits he is not sure they were the screams of a woman.

Mr Wright said: “So far as what you actually heard is concerned, was there a bit of a dispute? You thought you had a screech or a scream from an animal and it was Hannah that said she thought it was a woman.

"You weren’t fully convinced and dismissed it as more of a cry from an animal and went on to say in your statement that even when you read about Libby you thought you could be wasting people’s time as you wasn’t sure it was a woman, is that right?”

Mr Brewster has confirmed this.

Pawel Relowicz returns to witness stand as week two of trial ends

For those who have preferred their timings to SA I submit what they've said here isn't terribly convincing either.

Interestingly though the screams they heard lasted just 45-70 seconds. SA said 3-7 minutes. That is one hell of a discrepancy.

Should we discount both them and SAs timings and simply take it that a woman screamed and a man was shortly after seen exiting the park at a fast and determined walk?