Found Deceased UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #10 *ARREST*

[MsMiniSleuth]

Given we're now pretty certain Libby lived at 32, and knowing that 32 has a back garden gate leading to a shared alley with Heathcote, could the witness reports of the scream/banging gate be more pertinent?

Here's the map (32 in centre with conservatory) and witness statement:

Google Maps

@12.30
The concerned mum of two, who lives in nearby Heathcote Street near where it joins Wellesley Avenue, said: “We did hear screaming at 12.30 on Thursday night. “I was just in bed reading. We do get a lot of students who live in the road that Libby lives in who use this road as a cut through. “They go past screaming, shouting and singing. It’s not unusual. “But this made us sit up. It sounded like someone being attacked. The scream sounded like it was coming from someone who was scared. “It was someone walking quite close past our house. It was just one female scream. “Then we heard other voices muttering very low, murmuring and then more screams and more male voices. “Then we heard the slamming of a door. It sounded like a wooden door or a garden gate. “It was just very odd,” added the woman, a Hull University graduate whose dad is a retired policeman. “We didn’t think about it again until the police came round knocking on everybody’s doors on Saturday,” she recalled. “We talked about it and remembered the scream and rang 101.”“It was really shrill and urgent. It made me sit up and think ‘Oh my God’.

Libby Squire's neighbour claims to have heard a woman’s "blood curdling" scream

Which is just EXACTLY the same as I posted here 2 or weeks ago. Because I was putting out the idea of the back garden gate and the screams coming from the back of Heathcote rather than front.

 

[Winterbells]

Given we're now pretty certain Libby lived at 32, and knowing that 32 has a back garden gate leading to a shared alley with Heathcote, could the witness reports of the scream/banging gate be more pertinent?

Here's the map (32 in centre with conservatory) and witness statement:

Google Maps

@12.30
The concerned mum of two, who lives in nearby Heathcote Street near where it joins Wellesley Avenue, said: “We did hear screaming at 12.30 on Thursday night. “I was just in bed reading. We do get a lot of students who live in the road that Libby lives in who use this road as a cut through. “They go past screaming, shouting and singing. It’s not unusual. “But this made us sit up. It sounded like someone being attacked. The scream sounded like it was coming from someone who was scared. “It was someone walking quite close past our house. It was just one female scream. “Then we heard other voices muttering very low, murmuring and then more screams and more male voices. “Then we heard the slamming of a door. It sounded like a wooden door or a garden gate. “It was just very odd,” added the woman, a Hull University graduate whose dad is a retired policeman. “We didn’t think about it again until the police came round knocking on everybody’s doors on Saturday,” she recalled. “We talked about it and remembered the scream and rang 101.”“It was really shrill and urgent. It made me sit up and think ‘Oh my God’.

Libby Squire's neighbour claims to have heard a woman’s "blood curdling" scream

Absolutely not doubting that you're correct, but I can't work out how you worked out from the latest video of Libby that it's number 32?

 

[motherofdaughters]

But why the river searches?

Unless they think she was kept somewhere for some days before they panicked and the river came into play.

You've gone and done it now SVS!! My suspicious paranoid ramblings are coming out to play again.

You could kidnap someone to rape/murder them and then dispose of them. It would still be kidnap as you abducted them with the intent of gain.

 

[Joolz1975]

Absolutely not doubting that you're correct, but I can't work out how you worked out from the latest video of Libby that it's number 32?

Because it's Cags!! And she's got a better nose for sleuthing than Charlie the sniffer dog

 

[Strontium69]

Thanks Str and Hatf.



Therefore the arrest on susp of abduction is less developed than an investigation into kidnap?

However, le couldnt prove even abduction enough to charge.

Im muddled now but im thinking that the possibly inadvertent use of ' kidnap' shows us that LE are looking at , or their investigationa has led them to, a line of thought that PR has stashed LS somewhere or has been involved in LS being stashed somewhere? And/or With an intent to commit crime on

Maybe that hangs on a legal technicality? With no EVIDENCE of anything criminal, there is technically no kidnap.

With no body, and with no MMO, they cannot claim he INTENDED to harm her, therefore no KIDNAP charge? BUT, they think they have enough to show he was the last person to see her - and by taking the car for forensics, if they could prove that she had been in the car, and thus ALL trace of Libby vanishes, they might have enough to persuade a judge on ABDUCTION - even if that is based on a mental health plea. Maybe they were pushing the angle that she was too drunk to consent to getting into his car therefore he must have abducted her.

Is that why he said he put her address in his satnav? This was to show she a) she was sober enough to understand what she was doing and b) she volunteered the information therefore she consented to get into the car - why else would someone put their postcode into a satnav if they didn't intend to travel there in that vehicle?

So rather than deny all together, the admission is to show that he did not abduct her into his car? Therefore derailing the only thing they can legally place on him?

 

[Joolz1975]

You could kidnap someone to rape/murder them and then dispose of them. It would still be kidnap as you abducted them with the intent of gain.

But why change the wording from abduction to a month later kidnap.

 

[Joolz1975]

Maybe that hangs on a legal technicality? With no EVIDENCE of anything criminal, there is technically no kidnap.

With no body, and with no MMO, they cannot claim he INTENDED to harm her, therefore no KIDNAP charge? BUT, they think they have enough to show he was the last person to see her - and by taking the car for forensics, if they could prove that she had been in the car, and thus ALL trace of Libby vanishes, they might have enough to persuade a judge on ABDUCTION - even if that is based on a mental health plea. Maybe they were pushing the angle that she was too drunk to consent to getting into his car therefore he must have abducted her.

Is that why he said he put her address in his satnav? This was to show she a) she was sober enough to understand what she was doing and b) she volunteered the information therefore she consented to get into the car - why else would someone put their postcode into a satnav if they didn't intend to travel there in that vehicle?

So rather than deny all together, the admission is to show that he did not abduct her into his car? Therefore derailing the only thing they can legally place on him?

Sounds plausible.

Your too good at this sleuthing.

 

[Spy Versus Spy]

You could kidnap someone to rape/murder them and then dispose of them. It would still be kidnap as you abducted them with the intent of gain.

Yes but why the change now from abduction to kidnap m.o.d? Does it tell us what/how LE are thinking?

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Absolutely not doubting that you're correct, but I can't work out how you worked out from the latest video of Libby that it's number 32?

If you look at the three links I provided it's clear, in the video you can see it's the same place as the second kitchen pic in the rightmove link. (door, lightswitch, oven, funny bit of workbench to left of oven)

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Because it's Cags!! And she's got a better nose for sleuthing than Charlie the sniffer dog

Pfffttt. I have been wrong SO many times, but on this one I'm certain that video was taken in that house.

 

[MsMiniSleuth]

Thread #7 my post of Feb 16:

This is my scenario synopsis as the way I think it could possibly have gone on the night/morning of that fateful Thursday/Friday 2 weeks ago. Lot of 'possibles' as we don't know certain facts as not revealed, so bear with me.

I am basing this on LS living on Wellesley in one of the even numbered houses, and not an odd number, ie one that backs on to the Drain. I am still not sure if that has been confirmed by any means, the number? Have seen several options mentioned here. If it is this house, 32, below, then my theory might hold a little more water! If not, then I am not even close.

Check out this student property on Rightmove!

So, on that night the occupants are out to a party first before going on to the Welly. We know LS didn't seem to take a bag with her so she may either have not taken a key as she was travelling light (no phone either), or that as the occupants were all out together, and intending to return home together, she didn't really need one as one of the others was the 'designated house key holder' that night, perhaps having taken a bag with her.

As events transpired, LS left the club before the others and the key was forgotten about. Somewhere on the journey in the taxi she realised this fact. So when she arrives at Wellesley, knowing she can't get in, she doesn't bother going to door as she knows no one is home, instead heads down Wellesley, turns into Beresford and walks on down to Beverly intending to get a bus back to the Welly.

As she crosses over Beverly to the stop, she is caught in the headlights of Mr Grey Hair's car as he approaches, and notices the obviously worst for wear young woman. Someone said on here that she fell on the ground although we have no proof of that, but that might have alerted her to his attention: she falls, it's icy, it is below freezing and she has no gloves and is wearing no tights. If she did fall, she would have hurt and possibly grazed or cut her leg and hands, so she may have started crying as witnessed being 'distressed'. Or, she may have got to stop, and found either the last bus had gone, or that she had no money as had used last she had on the taxi, and because she didn't have her phone either, she couldn't use contactless payment. So she starts crying as cold and drunk and doesn't know what to do - then seen by Mr Grey Hair.

At some point after that, either she decides to head back to Wellesley or she is spotted either by PR or whomever is the man on the Haworth Street CCTV.

The first scenario. She staggers back across Beverly Road and back down Beresford where at some point she is seen by a predator on the loose who follows her.

As she gets to the junction where Beresford meets Heathcote, she turns left, and then veers right into the pedestrian only pathway that cuts through to Wellesley. Remember the woman in the house on Heathcote who heard the screams (I shall return to her shortly) said the street was used as a cut through:

"We do get a lot of students who live in the road that Libby lives in who use this road as a cut through."

I think she may have meant this pathway, particulaly if she lives in one of the houses closest to it.

Halfway on the left of this pathway there is a short alley that backs onto the end row of houses on Wellesley as mentioned above. If LS lives at 32, you will see from pic in the link there is a gate to this alley from the garden (possibly same with adjacent houses?)

Back to the Heathcote woman. If she lives in one of the houses that also backs on to the alley from the other side, I wonder if her bedroom is at the back of the house? It is more usual for bedrooms to be at the back, although admittedly with some that are in multi-occupancy I appreciate they can sometimes be at front. But let's for argument sake say her bedroom was at back of house, I wonder if the screams and noises she heard were in fact emanating from this alley and not from Heathcote Street itself?

Back to LS who has turned onto this alley from the pathway. She has remembered that they sometimes use the back gate entrance as it is not locked (just hypothesising here) and she thinks she'll get in that way. As she is here, she is caught by the one who has followed her. So what the woman in Heathcote heard is her scream, the voices and the bang of the garden gate as she is perhaps pulled sharply back from it whilst she has hold of by the attacker. Alternate scene, she is not followed but someone is already lurking here who she encounters and same scenario. This could be random or someone who lives in one of adjoining houses - and gate slam may be pulling her inside their own (I don't know if police have searched all gardens and houses in that section?)

In the second scenario, PR or car guy sees her on bench and asks does she want a cab, he is a mini cab. She may be crying and says she doesn't have any money, he says never mind, he will take her, his car is just around corner, come with him. She does that.

If PR, if what sister says is correct and he is well meaning on this occasion, he drives her back to Wellesley, good deed done, and she gets out and off he goes. LS turns into the same pathway to cut around to the back garden gate, but approaches from the Wellesley end - and same fate befalls her as above.

If PR as not Mr Nice Guy, he drives her back to Wellesley, she gets out. He looks around, road is clear no one around, house lights along street all off, he spots his chance, gets out of car and follows her down the path, to alley and attacks her there. He could then drag her the short distance to his waiting car.

I am afraid I draw a blank as to what happens after that. If not PR or someone who drove her there, then I think she could be in one of the sheds or houses that back on to alley. If taken by someone with car, then...who knows.

Feb 16, 2019

 

[Winterbells]

If you look at the three links I provided it's clear, in the video you can see it's the same place as the second kitchen pic in the rightmove link. (door, lightswitch, oven, funny bit of workbench to left of oven)

Ah. Thankyou. I'm an idiot and didn't spot the links.
God, you're good, though.

 

[Spy Versus Spy]

Maybe that hangs on a legal technicality? With no EVIDENCE of anything criminal, there is technically no kidnap.

With no body, and with no MMO, they cannot claim he INTENDED to harm her, therefore no KIDNAP charge? BUT, they think they have enough to show he was the last person to see her - and by taking the car for forensics, if they could prove that she had been in the car, and thus ALL trace of Libby vanishes, they might have enough to persuade a judge on ABDUCTION - even if that is based on a mental health plea. Maybe they were pushing the angle that she was too drunk to consent to getting into his car therefore he must have abducted her.

Is that why he said he put her address in his satnav? This was to show she a) she was sober enough to understand what she was doing and b) she volunteered the information therefore she consented to get into the car - why else would someone put their postcode into a satnav if they didn't intend to travel there in that vehicle?

So rather than deny all together, the admission is to show that he did not abduct her into his car? Therefore derailing the only thing they can legally place on him?

Yes..I think his admitting to LS being in the car is either v clever or naively told truthfully.

But why now Kidnap? Or is your point that it was always thought to be so by le but tactically astute reasoning to go abduction

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Ah. Thankyou. I'm an idiot and didn't spot the links.
God, you're good, though.

It's been bugging me for some time and probably bugging people on here! However, it does mean that the 'scream and bang' heard from Heathcote could well add up to being Libby's back gate.

A *locksmith/burglar might offer help to a damsel in distress who lost her keys.

*delete as applicable

 

[Newthoughts]

Do you think its worth me tweeting or emailing le asking if its a deliberate rephrasing or if its used in an interchangeable way?

But the original arrest was on abduction charges?

Maybe they phrased it wrong first time.

Legally I understand they are allowed up to 96 hours to question a suspect on one crime before they have to change them out release them. So given thathat can no longer question PR on the abduction charge. He's being held on remand for unrelated crimes.

But if they can change that to a new crime of kidnap would that buy them another 96 hours?

 

[Winterbells]

It's been bugging me for some time and probably bugging people on here! However, it does mean that the 'scream and bang' heard from Heathcote could well add up to being Libby's back gate.

A *locksmith/burglar might offer help to a damsel in distress who lost her keys.

*delete as applicable

Indeed.

 

[Kolumbo]

It's pleasant yet deeply upsetting in equal parts seeing and hearing an animated, happy Libby after all this time thinking of her in the morbid context of her disappearance with only still clear pics having been released until now.

 

[Joolz1975]

Legally I understand they are allowed up to 96 hours to question a suspect on one crime before they have to change them out release them. So given thathat can no longer question PR on the abduction charge. He's being held on remand for unrelated crimes.

But if they can change that to a new crime of kidnap would that buy them another 96 hours?

Only with new significant evidence I think.

Its still a related crime so don't think they can just say 'ok were changing the phrasing give us 96 more hours'

 

[VicBlazey]

I've tried to create a youtube channel so hopefully the video will now show. I have cut it only to show a passenger getting in the car and it is from the ITV footage. It is also slowed to 1/2 speed (I think lol)

Holy mackerel... if you’re watching this closely in a quiet house alone and scare easily make sure you’ve not got the sound up to full volume!! Just off to change my pants....

 

[Spy Versus Spy]

It's pleasant yet deeply upsetting in equal parts seeing and hearing an animated, happy Libby after all this time thinking of her in the morbid context of her disappearance with only still clear pics having been released until now.

Today's dark comic relief attempt coming up........warning.....


Yeah I think its a bad mistake Kol. Its obv now that shes a Southerner so...who cares whats happened?