Found Deceased UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #10 *ARREST*

[Spy Versus Spy]

RE the kidnap v abduction thing.

It's interesting because in the Sian O'Callaghan investigation they referred to her as kidnapped not abducted also.

This is why I think it may be important Joolz . Im still looking / asking but its what the intent is AFTER the initial interaction that seems to determine offence/terminology? Am I reading that correctly?

 

[Cherwell]

RE the kidnap v abduction thing.

It's interesting because in the Sian O'Callaghan investigation they referred to her as kidnapped not abducted also.

It came up in the Becky Watts case as well IIRC.

 

[Joolz1975]

This is why I think it may be important Joolz . Im still looking / asking but its what the intent is AFTER the initial interaction that seems to determine offence/terminology? Am I reading that correctly?

I'm not sure.

The investigators in Sian's case believed/hoped she was still alive and investigated it from the view point that she was been held somewhere.

The SIO said 'we had to believe she was still alive, because if we didn't believe that then she wouldn't be as no other cavalry was coming'.

I can't make my mind up if they use kidnap as a term because it sounds simpler or whether it is because of the legal differences?

Does that make sense?

 

[Cherwell]

My fear would be that it's an indication they are quite sure she is no longer alive and are hoping that P would lead them to the body. If they thought L was still alive then I would imagine they wouldn't delay an arrest at all.

Not necessarily. I'd say a suspect would be more likely to return to a live captive than to a body.
I'm pretty sure that Steve Fulcher had hopes of finding Sian Callaghan alive in such circumstances.

 

[Joolz1975]

It came up in the Becky Watts case as well IIRC.

Just watched a documentary about Becky this morning and yes the initial arrest was I believe kidnap.

They too thought that she was alive somewhere.

 

[Spy Versus Spy]

My fear would be that it's an indication they are quite sure she is no longer alive and are hoping that P would lead them to the body. If they thought L was still alive then I would imagine they wouldn't delay an arrest at all.

That's if your psychic dream is true of course.

Ive thought this atoz but I get stuck on if le have such knowledge or enough to believe this, then how can there not be enough to charge either abduction or worse?

Theres obv a void in the narrative that allows PRs supposed likely story of 'dropped her off' to be unproveable as untrue even though enough to believe it was worth delaying arrest. Does this make sense?

 

[Joolz1975]

Not necessarily. I'd say a suspect would be more likely to return to a live captive than to a body.
I'm pretty sure that Steve Fulcher had hopes of finding Sian Callaghan alive in such circumstances.

If I ever go missing can you ask Steve Fulcher to investigate? Thank you!!

Also get someone to destroy my credit card bill...my husband must never see it

 

[jessie]

I am repeating myself here (from last night), but on the ITV CCTV at the end the reporter is walking down Haworth from the barriers. She says something like .... Libby was last seen 20 steps from here and the reporter looks back to the barriers. Count the steps reporter takes - she is referring to the top of the junction.

Might be my incorrect interpretation, but sounds to me as if Libby was last seen (on a CCTV or physically by someone) on Beresford at the Haworth junction. So not on the spidercam. Could be the reporter being careful with words, or could be fact IDK.

 

[Joolz1975]

Ive thought this atoz but I get stuck on if le have such knowledge or enough to believe this, then how can there not be enough to charge either abduction or worse?

Theres obv a void in the narrative that allows PRs supposed likely story of 'dropped her off' to be unproveable even though enough to believe it was worth delaying arrest. Does this make sense?

Yes it does but it's very confusing.

They originally arrested him on suspicion of abduction but now saying kidnap so what has changed (of anything).

I need to read the definitions of them both again.

Is one more serious than the other?

In my mind abduction leads to murder..kidnap leads to ransom or that other word beginning with T that we are not mentioning.

But I do have a very simple mind.

 

[Spy Versus Spy]

Not necessarily. I'd say a suspect would be more likely to return to a live captive than to a body.
I'm pretty sure that Steve Fulcher had hopes of finding Sian Callaghan alive in such circumstances.

Do you think its worth me tweeting or emailing le asking if its a deliberate rephrasing or if its used in an interchangeable way?

 

[Joolz1975]

I am repeating myself here (from last night), but on the ITV CCTV at the end the reporter is walking down Haworth from the barriers. She says something like .... Libby was last seen 20 steps from here and the reporter looks back to the barriers. Count the steps reporter takes - she is referring to the top of the junction.

Might be my incorrect interpretation, but sounds to me as if Libby was last seen (on a CCTV or physically by someone) on Beresford at the Haworth junction. So not on the spidercam. Could be the reporter being careful with words, or could be fact IDK.

I think it's the reporter hinting at the fact she was last seen on the corner.

Then magically dissapeared at the same time someone was seen getting in the car.

We havnt had it confirmed it is LS in the car.

I think it's a subtle way of saying it is.

Sometimes it's not what they show/say it's what they don't that is most interesting.

 

[Joolz1975]

Do you think its worth me tweeting or emailing le asking if its a deliberate rephrasing or if its used in an interchangeable way?

Yes.. but then I'm nosey and can't let things like that drop.

 

[astheworldfallsdown]

Can someone tell if me PR can be questioned about kidnap or does that still fall under the 96 hours he was questioned for abduction?

 

[Spy Versus Spy]

Yes it does but it's very confusing.

They originally arrested him on suspicion of abduction but now saying kidnap so what has changed (of anything).

I need to read the definitions of them both again.

Is one more serious than the other?

In my mind abduction leads to murder..kidnap leads to ransom or that other word beginning with T that we are not mentioning.

But I do have a very simple mind.

Ive liked in agreement of simple mind . J/k

This is what I mean joolz, my head has stopped. Assuming le have deliberately used the term kidnap for legal reasons then what does that tell us as to what line theyre taking?

 

[Joolz1975]

Can someone tell if me PR can be questioned about kidnap or does that still fall under the 96 hours he was questioned for abduction?

They can't question him again on related charges without new significant evidence (so I believe anyway).

 

[Winterbells]

I reckon that the chap throws a bag or something into the foot well and then his passenger çlimbs into the car

I thought that at first, but when he leaves, after fiddling with his phone/smoking, he doesn't appear to have a bag with him, so unless he got it out of the boot, where did the bag come from?

 

[Joolz1975]

Ive liked in agreement of simple mind . J/k

This is what I mean joolz, my head has stopped. Assuming le have deliberately used the term kidnap for legal reasons then what does that tell us as to what line theyre taking?

Haha hubby calls me Sharpay (the dizzy blonde off high school musical not the dog breed).

Oh heck I don't know.

If your asking me for my honest opinion are they now thinking that there was more to it than take a girl, assault a girl, harm a girl.

I'm going down routes of other people involved and trafficking which I don't think for one minute happened.

Maybe they just used kidnap as it's a simpler term to use.

If I said to my daughter kidnap she would know what I meant. If I said abduction she would go 'what's that'. But then she is a Sharpay too.

 

[DiploRed]

I find it weird the two people walking together in the CCTV haven't come forward.

 

[HopeForGoodNews]

Maybe upload to Youtube and share link?

I've tried to create a youtube channel so hopefully the video will now show. I have cut it only to show a passenger getting in the car and it is from the ITV footage. It is also slowed to 1/2 speed (I think lol)

 

[Winterbells]

... the passenger seems in some way to either initially fall away from the passenger side when attempting to get in ,or to resist being 'helped' in.....
At this point they are lifted, rather clumsily and hurridly ,by a left arm under both legs across the back of the knees and a right arm across the back/ under the arms. Scooped in....

Yes. That's what I believe I am seeing, after studying it over and over again. And not only is the passenger 'scooped in', she (and I'm sure it's a she, given the short jacket and the legs) then bounces a little as she's plopped onto the seat and she flops over towards the drivers seat as a result of the speed/momentum/force involved in her landing on the seat.