Found Deceased UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #11 *ARREST*

[Joolz1975]

She was very drunk. It would be very difficult for her to negotiate her way to the river over rough ground. Even harder from her home or anywhere on the quickest route to that home as per the claims made by PRs sister about his actions that night.

Why do you take what PR sister said as fact??

1... English is not her first language something could have got lost in translation

2...Even if PR told her that it's probably not the truth.

3...It came from the red tops, notorious for printing half truths.

 

[LucyRocket]

Question...

If LS is eventually found in water but with no visible signs of injury and COD is determined to be drowning.. then if they can prove she was taken to the park by PR can he be charged in relation to her death if they can’t prove he forcibly took her there? Can the reason she was there, be it willingly or not, was PR taking her there be enough to charge him with anything even if she ran off and entered the water on her own?

They could if the CPS felt there was enough circumstantial evidence to have a good chance of convincing a jury without reasonable doubt

 

[Vermont24]

There is one thing which may account for Libby being more intoxicated than the others, and I mentioned it as a possibility a while back. That is mixing drugs with alcohol. Now I don't know if she was on any prescription medication, but even something like an antihistamine or cold & flu remedy might react with alcohol. You know how these things usually warn you not to drive or operate machinery? Sometimes they can knock you out more than you expect.

Or just differences in individual tolerance.

Also, the group we see her with on CCTV may not have drank the same amount as her, and she may not have been with them exclusively before heading to Welly. We shouldn't assume that. We're aware that she'd come from a gathering at campus accommodation, 'pre drinking' as it seems to be called now (it was still just 'drinking' when I was a student), but it's a long walk from campus to Welly, particularly in that weather. There may well have been an intermediate visit to a pub too - The Gardener's Arms or The Haworth being the most likely. Police were certainly canvassing these pubs with her image on the evenings immediately following the disappearance.

 

[Cherwell]

She was very drunk. It would be very difficult for her to negotiate her way to the river over rough ground. Even harder from her home or anywhere on the quickest route to that home as per the claims made by PRs sister about his actions that night.

Sorry to repeat a point made before, but people can sober up very quickly if they get a fright or a shock.

 

[Joolz1975]

Sorry to repeat a point made before, but people can sober up very quickly if they get a fright or a shock.

Yes...

I was once absolutely smashed when I was younger I couldn't put one foot in front of the other by myself.

We were walking past a multi storey car park and a guy jumped off the top and landed metres in front of us.

Sobered up instantly.

Shock and adrenaline have a very strange effect on the body.

 

[Chester]

We seem to be going around in circles about LS's level of intoxication again (been done many times in the past month).

Alcohol intoxication and its impact on an individual has many variables.

Not eating prior to a drinking session can have a massive impact.

Rapidly drinking shots can have a massive impact.

Prescription drugs can have a massive impact.

Physical size can be an important factor.

Tolerance can be another important factor. Let's say for instance someone decided to have a dry January and then went out for a night out and drank like they did before a month's abstinence.

 

[Newthoughts]

There is one thing which may account for Libby being more intoxicated than the others, and I mentioned it as a possibility a while back. That is mixing drugs with alcohol. Now I don't know if she was on any prescription medication, but even something like an antihistamine or cold & flu remedy might react with alcohol. You know how these things usually warn you not to drive or operate machinery? Sometimes they can knock you out more than you expect.

Or she could have a lower tolerance to as alcohol, be less used to drinking, have drunk a lot more or had mixed her drinks. We simply don't know. I know my tolerance to alcohol is low. Half a bottle of wine would get me to Libby's state.

 

[BrianJohnson]

There is one thing which may account for Libby being more intoxicated than the others, and I mentioned it as a possibility a while back. That is mixing drugs with alcohol. Now I don't know if she was on any prescription medication, but even something like an antihistamine or cold & flu remedy might react with alcohol. You know how these things usually warn you not to drive or operate machinery? Sometimes they can knock you out more than you expect.

Or lack of food, Libby might not have eaten whereas others in the party had

I often go out and have 8 or 9 pints in an evening at weekends and feel ok so have a strong tolerance, but I eat a fair bit before and during the session, one evening I did not eat as I simply wasn’t feeling hungry and after 4 pints i was worse than i ever was those times I had eaten and had twice that and more

 

[BrianJohnson]

What she had to drink, why she was in that state, what caused it, how much she can drink compared with others are a trivial side issue, pointless speculation, her state is not a licence for PR or anyone else to try it on with her, blame whoever took her not her alcohol consumption

 

[HopeForGoodNews]

Bugger...my frying pan (teal) is broke.

Hmmm. So we were right that it'd break if you hit your ex over the head with it

 

[RosalindaA]

I'm somewhat saddened by the atmosphere lately of this thread for Libby. Whatever you think of other people's opinions politeness usually leads to better understanding and more people posting. We are talking about a young woman who has very likely lost her life while distressed due to a horrible sequence of events.

We don't yet know how or why. As I see it, just from observing other cases there are many APPARENT red flags about the police's suspect.

He is the last person known to be with Libby before her disappearance.

AFAIK he did not come forward to assist police with the investigation, they had to pull him in.

His presence at that location, at that time for no reason appears suspicious.
He invited an obviously drunk and vulnerable woman into his vehicle on his own admission after which she disappears.
We see a lot of discussion about how women should or shouldn't behave, not so much, if any about how men should behave in these risky situations. PR could have offered his phone to Libby to call someone she knew or call the club where her friends were, or the police, or just stay parked up with her and run his engine to counteract the cold, or take her to A&E.
It appears he did not do any of these safe but helpful actions. I doubt the police would have held him for the maximum time if what he told them made any sense. He appears to have told them he intended to take her home but she made a pass at him, she then vanishes.

We don't know for sure if Libby could even gain access to her house. Police will know from her friends if she had her keys or not. If she did not, then PR's story about taking her home makes no sense and he has been caught in a lie.
Another red flag.

PR's suspected criminal history, I am assuming he has been matched by DNA (used condom) to at least one of these offences so this is strong evidence that he has a deviant sexual character. Great big red flag.

I remember years ago when I was out in the community wearing my nursing uniform being stopped by a middle-aged man (he was grey-haired but no beard), who had found a toddler girl wandering on her own in the road yards from a dual carriageway. He had called the police but asked me to stay with him and the little girl as he felt uncomfortable as a man on his own in that situation. I thought he was very sensibly protecting himself and was happy to help.
Perhaps if young men don't want to spend time in police stations they should act a little more sensibly around vulnerable/intoxicated women.

 

[Chester]

What she had to drink, why she was in that state, what caused it, how much she can drink compared with others are a trivial side issue, pointless speculation, her state is not a licence for PR or anyone else to try it on with her, blame whoever took her not her alcohol consumption

Don't recall anyone saying it was.

 

[Pinkizzy]

I think the fact that police turned up one night, after dark, and focused exclusively on a single bench suggests, to me, that particular information was shared or uncovered. Surely darkness isn't ideal conditions for forensic work.

If you were going to have consensual sex in a secluded and empty park, then perhaps a bench would be the place to do it. That said, drunk or not, I just can't see LS entering the park of her own free will on a -5c night with someone who was seemingly a stranger.

I guess semen stains on a bench may glow under uv light at night

 

[BrianJohnson]

Don't recall anyone saying it was.

Discussion of Libby’s drinking habits or what caused her to be drunk come uncomfortably close to victim blaming imho even if it is not the intention

Being drunk set off a series of unfortunate events that sadly have probably resulted in her death but she was just doing what millions of young people do every week

 

[Chester]

Discussion of Libby’s drinking habits or what caused her to be drunk come uncomfortably close to victim blaming imho even if it is not the intention

Being drunk set off a series of unfortunate events that sadly have probably resulted in her death but she was just doing what millions of young people do every week

Exactly.

However the discussion is valid (albeit done to death multiple times). People are trying to understand how someone would get into that state and then how they would behave.

I don't recall seeing anyone posting anything judgemental about people 'power drinking' to get drunk. It's a free choice.

 

[Newthoughts]

Why do you take what PR sister said as fact??

1... English is not her first language something could have got lost in translation

2...Even if PR told her that it's probably not the truth.

3...It came from the red tops, notorious for printing half truths.

Because a polish women living in Norway is highly unlikely to randomly say her brother told her he met a crying girl who asked him to take her home when the redtops confront her with his arrest on suspicion of abducting someone. Maybe you would but it's not what the first thing that would pop into my mind. Nor is it sensational enough for the redtops to fabricate.

I would also assume the redtops sent an interpreter. Having been to Poland there are many competent English speakers. She may well have said my brother told me he met a herd of roaming wilderbeast and herded them to the Humber and it got mistranslated but it's not likely.

I personally think if PR were telling the truth Libby would have been seen again somewhere.

Read in context the comment is in response to many suggesting he gave her a lift and then she somehow fell into a river / disappeared. That is most likely what he told sister. River accidents are unlikely in that scenario.

 

[Newthoughts]

Libby managed to stumble nearly a quarter of a mile in her highly intoxicated state. The cold, fresh air and her body breaking down the alcohol would mean she was starting to sober up. As she sobered up she would become more coordinated and have more chance to walk/run farther.

Considering that the bulk of the Police searches concentrated on the nearby park and given that park's proximity to the River Hull the distances involved would not be impossible even in a highly intoxicated state.

Without being seen? And why?

 

[Chester]

Without being seen? And why?

It appears you are assuming that LS walked from the bench to the park.

If LS was in the park after being seen on the bench, as has been speculated, it would not be impossible for her to stumble the additional distance to the River Hull.

I was responding to your post that stated as a fact that she was 'not able to walk far'. Yet she had already walked a distance greater than the distance between the park and the river.

Why? Good question.

 

[alfiedug]

Sorry to go off the conversation but can anyone tell me is this fact. The 3am timeline.?

 

[Joolz1975]

Because a polish women living in Norway is highly unlikely to randomly say her brother told her he met a crying girl who asked him to take her home when the redtops confront her with his arrest on suspicion of abducting someone. Maybe you would but it's not what the first thing that would pop into my mind. Nor is it sensational enough for the redtops to fabricate.

I would also assume the redtops sent an interpreter. Having been to Poland there are many competent English speakers. She may well have said my brother told me he met a herd of roaming wilderbeast and herded them to the Humber and it got mistranslated but it's not likely.

I personally think if PR were telling the truth Libby would have been seen again somewhere.

Read in context the comment is in response to many suggesting he gave her a lift and then she somehow fell into a river / disappeared. That is most likely what he told sister. River accidents are unlikely in that scenario.

Lot of assumptions there but no FACTS as usual.