Found Deceased UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #14 *ARREST*

[cluciano63]

Yes, it's horrible, but at the same time look at all the people (many of them young men) who die by accidentally falling into water while drunk.

Way too many. It has been shown pretty clearly, imo, that being both drunk and alone often has tragic consequences, even without foul play as a factor.

 

[porkypies]

Her inebriated state shouldn’t be a discussion. She should have been safe to get drunk and still get home.

In my own experience, when alone at night, being drunk and being safe do not go hand-in-hand.

 

[Audiohoney]

Her state might be a factor in her believing PR or falling over. But I think what a lot of us are struggling with is why people keep trying to find pathological reasons why she was drunk.

Students, non students, lots of folk of different ages go out to enjoy themselves and occasionally drink too much. It happens, try a&e on a Friday night.

They were going to a club for a student night and decided it was cheaper to drink beforehand. Loads of students do it. It's not a sign of anything.

She should have been safe from PR. It's his behavior we should be pathologising not Libbys. She hasn't done anything wrong.

I’m not sure anyone is pathologising her choice to drink. I have been in that state many a time myself. I actually quit drinking 5 years ago and it’s only looking back sober that I realise how many times I’d put myself in danger because of the state I was in. I chose to drink. I was to blame for my behaviour. At times I was so drunk it would look like I’d been spiked - I wasn’t. I’ve had those blackouts more than once, my therapist tells me new research shows it’s the minds way of blocking out the way in which you ordinarily would never behave. Rather than storing the embarrassing behaviour it wipes it from memory.

The guilt for what happened that night lies only with one person (who, for the purposes of discussion here, we are surmising is PR).

Libby’s intoxicated state undoubtedly affected her behaviour that evening though. Alcohol makes us less alert, less responsive, makes it more difficult for us to read peoples intent, slows reaction times, causes us to dismiss personal safety more than usual and makes it more difficult to make sensible decisions and choices.

Of course she should never have been attacked. In the unicorn rainbow world of bliss she should have been free to get as off her face as she wanted, to enjoy a night getting hammered with her mates, without fear of anything. That sadly isn’t the case.

We all take risks, I take a lot of risks. I might not drink anymore but I travel the world alone, I love crazy adrenaline sports, I try not to live in fear of anything. But those risks I take do put me in danger of harm at times. With an older head on my shoulders it’s a calculated risk. The toss up between fun and chances of getting hurt. At 21 I had little fear or thinking of my own mortality. It would not have crossed my mind that the world could be so cruel to me as it was to Libby. ‘That happens to other people right? Not to me.’

I’m sure it wasn’t a conscious choice to get so drunk that evening. But Libby’s drinking did make her more vulnerable on a sub zero, dark, freezing cold January night. It shouldn’t, but it did. That isn’t her fault, but it IS significant when we’re considering her movements and reactions that evening.

Edit: spelling

 

[Skigh]

Is there a way of finding out if there are unsolved cases of sexual assault during the time he lived in York or in Hull?

 

[Newthoughts]

I’m not sure anyone is pathologising her choice to drink. I have been in that state many a time myself. I actually quit drinking 5 years ago and it’s only looking back sober that I realise how many times I’d put myself in danger because of the state I was in. I chose to drink. I was to blame for my behaviour. At times I was so drunk it would look like I’d been spiked - I wasn’t. I’ve had those blackouts more than once, my therapist tells me new research shows it’s the minds way of blocking out the way in which you ordinarily would never behave. Rather than storing the embarrassing behaviour it wipes it from memory.

The guilt for what happened that night lies only with one person (who, for the purposes of discussion here, we are surmising is PR).

Libby’s intoxicated state undoubtedly affected her behaviour that evening though. Alcohol makes us less alert, less responsive, makes it more difficult for us to read peoples intent, slows reaction times, causes us to dismiss personal safety more than usual and makes it more difficult to make sensible decisions and choices.

Of course she should never have been attacked. In the unicorn rainbow world of bliss she should have been free to get as off her face as she wanted, to enjoy a night getting hammered with her mates, without fear of anything. That sadly isn’t the case.

We all take risks, I take a lot of risks. I might not drink anymore but I travel the world alone, I love crazy adrenaline sports, I try not to live in fear of anything. But those risks I take do put me in danger of harm at times. With an older head on my shoulders it’s a calculated risk. The toss up between fun and chances of getting hurt. At 21 I had little fear or thinking of my own mortality. It would not have crossed my mind that the world could be so cruel to me as it was to Libby. ‘That happens to other people right? Not to me.’

I’m sure it wasn’t a conscious choice to get so drunk that evening. But Libby’s drinking did make her more vulnerable on a sub zero, dark, freezing cold January night. I shouldn’t, but it did. That isn’t her fault, but it IS significant when we’re considering her movements and reactions that evening.

I agree but I think the point I'm arguing is lots of people have seen a perfectly ordinary incident of a girl getting drunk and started querying whether she's on medication or ill or whatever.

I've never had issues with alcohol. I hardly drink. But I have on occasion, particularly when young, got blind drunk. If anything Libby's state most likely suggests someone who hardly ever drinks and is therefore badly hit by it.

It is not weird, unusual, indicative of anytbing. It's just a young woman who had drunk too much.

As for risks. In theory there were none. She was with friends who put her in a licensed, tracked, paid for taxi that took her to her front door. No risks at all there. Those friends then appear to have left the club early when they didn't hear from her. Yet another protection against risk.

Libby's introduction to risk probably didn't start with a drink it probably started with a forgotten key. Being drunk then will have led to riskier choices and reduced ability.

But once she was alone and outside PR meant she was at risk. Drunk or sober he was a threat. Being drunk will have made it easier for him but I honestly think he'd have done what he did anyway.

 

[Glaciersnow]

So few news...I hoped we would know more by now.

 

[Skigh]

So few news...I hoped we would know more by now.

there will be no more news unless an arrest is made.

 

[Newthoughts]

Is there a way of finding out if there are unsolved cases of sexual assault during the time he lived in York or in Hull?

There are cases of a flasher before he moved to Hull. And an efit that looks remarkably like PR

 

[jacksmamma]

add that to the fact that he's been in a cell since the day she went missing,

The suspect wasn't arrested until Wed 6th Feb - five days after LS was reported missing.

 

[Skigh]

There are cases of a flasher before he moved to Hull. And an efit that looks remarkably like PR

I had looked at that and yes it does show a striking similarity.
I was thinking more of a step up from that.

 

[jacksmamma]

thank you for clarifying! i did not realize (or remember, even though i've followed since day 1) that there were 6 days before he got taken in! hmm... i find myself thinking that i have read every single post on every single thread of certain cases, but sometimes i forget or mistakenly cross info, especially on these higher profile, fast-moving threads. i will definitely re-think my theories with that info.

I replied to this too - sorry didn't realise it had been covered.

 

[Mommysleuth11]

Her inebriated state shouldn’t be a discussion. She should have been safe to get drunk and still get home.

I absolutely agree she should have been safe. I only mentioned that to say logical thinking goes out of the window when drunk, most of us have been there. Choices and decisions are rational when sober bot necessarily in drink. I wasnt making any judgement or indeed trying to apportion any blame whatsoever.

 

[jacksmamma]

I think I'm the only that thinks this , but I've always thought that it looks like a man in dark trousers getting into the passenger seat. But, I'm the only one that can see this so I'm thinking it's because my eye sight isn't that great.

I thought I could see bare legs

 

[jacksmamma]

I think I'm the only that thinks this , but I've always thought that it looks like a man in dark trousers getting into the passenger seat. But, I'm the only one that can see this so I'm thinking it's because my eye sight isn't that great.

I'm sure I see bare legs

 

[JosieJo]

I’m not sure anyone is pathologising her choice to drink. I have been in that state many a time myself. I actually quit drinking 5 years ago and it’s only looking back sober that I realise how many times I’d put myself in danger because of the state I was in. I chose to drink. I was to blame for my behaviour. At times I was so drunk it would look like I’d been spiked - I wasn’t. I’ve had those blackouts more than once, my therapist tells me new research shows it’s the minds way of blocking out the way in which you ordinarily would never behave. Rather than storing the embarrassing behaviour it wipes it from memory.

The guilt for what happened that night lies only with one person (who, for the purposes of discussion here, we are surmising is PR).

Libby’s intoxicated state undoubtedly affected her behaviour that evening though. Alcohol makes us less alert, less responsive, makes it more difficult for us to read peoples intent, slows reaction times, causes us to dismiss personal safety more than usual and makes it more difficult to make sensible decisions and choices.

Of course she should never have been attacked. In the unicorn rainbow world of bliss she should have been free to get as off her face as she wanted, to enjoy a night getting hammered with her mates, without fear of anything. That sadly isn’t the case.

We all take risks, I take a lot of risks. I might not drink anymore but I travel the world alone, I love crazy adrenaline sports, I try not to live in fear of anything. But those risks I take do put me in danger of harm at times. With an older head on my shoulders it’s a calculated risk. The toss up between fun and chances of getting hurt. At 21 I had little fear or thinking of my own mortality. It would not have crossed my mind that the world could be so cruel to me as it was to Libby. ‘That happens to other people right? Not to me.’

I’m sure it wasn’t a conscious choice to get so drunk that evening. But Libby’s drinking did make her more vulnerable on a sub zero, dark, freezing cold January night. It shouldn’t, but it did. That isn’t her fault, but it IS significant when we’re considering her movements and reactions that evening.

Edit: spelling

Spot on !

 

[Lyndaloo]

Her inebriated state shouldn’t be a discussion. She should have been safe to get drunk and still get home.

Couldn’t agree more x

 

[Winterbells]

Yes, it's here
Missing student Libby Squire was last seen 'falling over drunk'
Tom Tulley, 20, who lives opposite, watched her “stumbling” and falling on Thursday night.
He said: “She was too drunk to be on her own. The taxi dropped her by a red car. She was walking away from her house, which is weird. She fell over a couple of times.”
Housemate Leon Caplin, 20, added: “She was struggling to walk, she was wobbling and could not walk in a straight line.”

Thanks Cherwell

 

[Enquirer-2019]

I’ve followed these threads for a while now because I was born in Hull. The fact is, I sort of feel betrayed. The Hull I remember is a town where people would say come round to ours for tea, there’s fish pattie and chips with your name on it.

I don’t recognise a Hull of flashers, dildo thieves, CCTV and predatory stalkers, but hey, I’m 63. Get with the programme, granddad.

I’ve been thinking a lot about the random nature of life as well: If so and so hadn’t been in such and such a place, etc etc.

Anyway. Mods, please delete this if late night quasi-religious maunderings contravene TOS. I’ve been pondering on why people post on here and I think for me, it’s become a mixture of a desire for justice and a forlorn hope that I might just notice something everyone else has missed. Yes, I am sad.

2018 was a horrendous year, almost everyone I know lost a relative, a family member, and/or a pet, and I found myself writing two condolence letters per month.

I always said in those letters that modern physics tells us that there are multiple dimensions which we can’t access. One of those could be what religious people call heaven.

When my own mother died in 1986, someone sent me this extract from the sermon of Canon Henry Scott Holland in 1910:

Death is nothing at all. It does not count. I have only slipped away into the next room. Nothing has happened.

Everything remains exactly as it was. I am I, and you are you, and the old life that we lived so fondly together is untouched, unchanged. Whatever we were to each other, that we are still.

Call me by the old familiar name. Speak of me in the easy way which you always used. Put no difference into your tone. Wear no forced air of solemnity or sorrow.

Laugh as we always laughed at the little jokes that we enjoyed together. Play, smile, think of me, pray for me. Let my name be ever the household word that it always was. Let it be spoken without an effort, without the ghost of a shadow upon it. Life means all that it ever meant. It is the same as it ever was. There is absolute and unbroken continuity. What is this death but a negligible accident?

Why should I be out of mind because I am out of sight? I am but waiting for you, for an interval, somewhere very near, just round the corner. All is well. Nothing is hurt; nothing is lost. One brief moment and all will be as it was before. How we shall laugh at the trouble of parting when we meet again!

When my mum died in 1986, I'm not describing this very well, but in April 1986 I was working and I did a conference at Loughborough University. They gave me a room half way up a tower block where if I wanted to, I could wave out of the window at the pilots in a holding pattern over East Midlands Airport. Anyway…

That weekend at one point I found myself looking out of the window and across the way, lower than my level, was another university building with a flat roof and it was completely covered with a shallow lake of rain water

And as I watched it, the sun came out and the wind rippled the puddle so that every single bit of it danced in the light for a minute or so. I looked at it and somehow I knew, from looking at the rippling lights, that my mum was OK and that she was trying to tell me she was OK

Two years later, when I found myself in Chartres, I went to light a candle for her and I got the same feeling again, but much, much stronger, to the extent that it almost incapacitated me. I have never been able to explain it, but ever since then I have felt that my mum is at peace and happy

I hope if any of Libby’s family are reading this, it might give them comfort. Or indeed, anyone who is reading this who has lost someone. That’s it, basically. I’m wrapping this up, here in the UK. The owls are hoo-hooing in the woods out the back, down towards the mills in the valley, telling me to go to bed. And who am I to disagree with owls. Good night America, wherever you are.

Thank you for sharing this with us @Woollybear
Reading this extract from the sermon, brought me an endearing and emotive smile.

 

[jessie]

Her inebriated state shouldn’t be a discussion. She should have been safe to get drunk and still get home.

IMOO however we personally have no wish to accord her condition to the events of that night her alcohol level is relevant sadly. This is in no way judgement nor blame but we must accept this it cannot be ignored..

Alcohol Consumption and Women's Vulnerability to Sexual Victimization: Can Reducing Women's Drinking Prevent Rape?

Alcohol consumption has long been considered as being to increase vulnerability to sexual victimization, with numerous studies documenting a positive association between women's alcohol use and their experiences of sexual victimization, at both the global and the event level (see Abbey, 2002; Abbey, Zawacki, Buck, Clinton, and McAuslan, 2004; Testa and Parks, 1996 for reviews). Research shows that sexually victimized women tend to drink more than women without a history of victimization. Moreover, a substantial proportion of sexual assaults occur when the victim has been drinking and incidents of victimization are disproportionately likely to occur on drinking days as opposed to nondrinking days. These findings raise the intriguing question: Can the incidence of sexual victimization be reduced by reducing women's drinking? Because alcohol use is amenable to change, prevention efforts that focus on reducing women's drinking may be a promising means of reducing sexual victimization.

We do not mean to suggest that women who consume alcohol are responsible for their own victimization. Few would dispute that it is the perpetrator, nearly always male, who is responsible for sexual victimization and that it is imperative that prevention efforts target male perpetration. Nonetheless, without in any way blaming the victim, it is also responsible to help women to reduce their risk of sexual victimization by altering the behaviors that increase their vulnerability.

Before determining whether reducing women's drinking might serve to reduce their vulnerability to sexual victimization, it is necessary to evaluate the strength and nature of the relationship between the putative risk factor and the outcome. As Leonard (2005) has cogently argued regarding the role of alcohol in perpetration of intimate partner violence, there is no single study or design that can definitively establish causality.1 However, an accumulation of evidence from different types of studies may be strong enough to implicate alcohol consumption as a contributing cause.

 

[Newthoughts]

Exactly. We do know that she made no attempt to approach her front door, so IF she had no keys she must have known that while she was in the taxi. QUOTE]
Do we definitely know she didn't go to her front door? We have MSM reports of her walking away.