UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #20

[Cherwell]

Do you remember early on in the press the elderly neighbour to PR made reference to two men who shared the car PR used? Unless the wife had short hair and he mistook her for a man?

IMBW, but I thought that turned out to be untrue, a case of misunderstanding.

 

[Officer Dibble]

DBM

 

[JusticeDT]

I didn't see any mention of identity of friend

 

[Officer Dibble]

DBM

 

[JusticeDT]

Guilty of what though?

I assumed murder as rape is surely a no brainer

 

[Officer Dibble]

My thoughts too. Was PR his friend in the car! Was he the friend who liked to take pictures with PR in Halloween masks! They're similar ages.

I didn't realise who you were referencing then but now I see - you mean the other case from 2017 in the tenfoot? OMG if so. Did they work together? When did PR move to the area again?

 

[Cherwell]

There's no reason as far as I can see to assume any connection between Relovicz and this Lithuanian offender.
Nor any reason to think that Relovicz didn't always operate alone.

 

[Vera_dci]

It doesn't say when he was charged. He didn't go to court until 2020.

I know of someone who was charged with a pretty nasty rape in my area he was on bail for two years before his court appearance. He went by a different name on fband dating apps . He was dating girls during his bail who had no idea what he had done. It absolutely disgused me he was allowed to walk the streets. He ended up getting 9 years .

Just to add he filmed the attack on his phone so the evidence was clear cut.

 

[Chambo1994]

Straw poll? On the jury, guilty or not guilty?

It's guilty for me at this point.

Guilty of rape
Not guilty of murder

Unfortunately not seen enough evidence to say beyond reasonable doubt that he killed her.

To clarify I do believe he killed her!!!
But if I was sat on the jury and saw the evidence that we’ve heard about I couldn’t rule out the possibility of accidental death following the rape or suicide.

Worth noting that in court reporting doesn’t always give every single ounce of evidence. There may be parts under reporting restriction etc that could swing the thoughts!

 

[scapa]

Thee's no reason as far as I can see to assume any connection between Relovicz and this Lithuanian offender.
Nor any reason to think that Relovicz didn't always operate alone.

Agree. What would be the basis for a connection? Age? Ethnicity? Eastern-Eu/Batlic national origin? Occupation? Geography?

Both dangerous, but PR seems like a lone-wolf predator, based on what we know of his offending, prolific, maximalist and escalating, alongside his cover as an employed married father. I also wonder if the types and variety of PR's offending, involving exposure, burglary, stalking and eventually rape and (likely) murder, some of it high-danger in terms of being witnessed and leaving evidence, would make sense as a partnership -- so much of what he did was clearly satisfying to him but might be shameful to a potential partner in crime, even if that partner shared some of the sexual deviance that PR displays.

I can imagine PR boasting about some edited version of the offences he committed, but I also expect that he took pleasure in the secrets he kept -- despite the very public nature of these crimes. JMO.

And thanks again for all the updates and analysis of this ugly, heartbreaking case.

 

[Joolz1975]

If he'd left her at X spot in the park then gone back 2.5 hours later ... to that exact spot and found her still there - he certainly didn't spend long trying to check for a pulse, resuscitate her, say 'oh poop! On no! What have done!' before he decided to put her in the water ... 4 minutes.

4 mins there and back is a quick check to me.

No your right and I dont think this is what happened just throwing it out there. I just wish they had a bit more to make it more clear cut as it is just a little lacking in something for me at the moment (having said that I do feel that he was responsible for her death).

 

[Cherwell]

I would have no hesitation in finding him guilty of murder. There may be no smoking gun, but there's no doubt that his actions caused her death. There's also no doubt that he is a very dangerous individual who needs to be kept off the streets to protect women. To that end, I say do whatever it takes to get him locked up for as long as possible, because sentencing in the UK is risibly lenient.
If we had the death penalty, I would agonise over the case, but since we don't I'm not bothered if he goes down for murder when it might have been more like manslaughter. That may be against the spirit of our justice system, but frankly in his case I don't care.

 

[porkypies]

Here's a summary:
“In criminal proceedings evidence of the defendant’s bad character is admissible if, but only if –

1. all parties to the proceedings agree to the evidence being admissible;
2. the evidence is adduced by the defendant himself or is given in answer to a question asked by him in cross examination and intended to elicit it;
3. it is important explanatory evidence;
4. it is relevant to an important matter in issue between the defendant and the prosecution;
5. it has substantial probative value in relation to an important matter in issue between the defendant and a co-defendant;
6. it is evidence to correct a false impression given by the defendant; or
7. the defendant has made an attack on another person’s character.
   
   Bad Character Evidence | The Crown Prosecution Service

I also wonder: if at a trial the addresses of both victim and accused are made known/public, then his current address at HM Prison would make the jury curious in case he's already raped and murdered someone(s) So it could be in the interests of the prosecution to make his previous offences known to them.

 

[mrjitty]

Maybe he found her dead when he went back the second time and disposed of her body? Not defending him as I think he is responsible but i dont think the evidence is very clear cut either way if I am honest.

I get where you are coming from - you can speculate all kinds of scenarios

However the jury should not do this. Rather they should consider only the scenario that is put to them by the defence. The defence cannot argue that on the one hand, PR just left her in the park and nothing happened (statements to police) but on the other hand, he had sex with her - but then won't say what happened - and then on the other hand, the version he gave to his friends

The jury is not required to invent potential exculpatory scenarios that the defence itself does not make

 

[Fidobell]

Guilty.

Guilty from me

 

[wilkela]

This website is for different view points to be discussed.

Why would she choose to die slowly though? If she placed herself in the water to die, wouldn't you expect her to drown herself? If I wanted to commit suicide I would do it the quickest way possible. If I intended to drown myself I would breathe in as much water as possible . This would have been clearly evident on any post mortem. But it wasn't?!

how you came to conclusion I suggested she chooses die slowly?
I don't think so it was her choice ,it could be accident not intentional act
she could by accident fell into water when she was trying get out of this field ,she could be not able go any further she could lie down by riverbank and die there and river stream could take her body away

 

[Joolz1975]

I get where you are coming from - you can speculate all kinds of scenarios

However the jury should not do this. Rather they should consider only the scenario that is put to them by the defence. The defence cannot argue that on the one hand, PR just left her in the park and nothing happened (statements to police) but on the other hand, he had sex with her - but then won't say what happened - and then on the other hand, the version he gave to his friends

The jury is not required to invent potential exculpatory scenarios that the defence itself does not make

Thanks MrJ I suppose if he was going to use that as any form of defence he should have mentioned it when first questioned then.

You have helped organise my thoughts a little actually so appreciate that.

 

[mrazda71]

Guilty of rape
Not guilty of murder

Unfortunately not seen enough evidence to say beyond reasonable doubt that he killed her.

To clarify I do believe he killed her!!!
But if I was sat on the jury and saw the evidence that we’ve heard about I couldn’t rule out the possibility of accidental death following the rape or suicide.

Worth noting that in court reporting doesn’t always give every single ounce of evidence. There may be parts under reporting restriction etc that could swing the thoughts!

What do think we've heard so far that points to accidental death?

I personally can't see anything accidental about it so I'm hoping someone can help me see a different perspective.


Edited to add - yes, there is ALWAYS stuff that comes out after the guilty verdict and leaves us all with our chins on the floor! I dread to think what that will be in this case ...

 

[wilkela]

I have empathy for you because you seem to want to believe that he isn't guilty of murder and I think you will at some point have to accept that he is.

You mentioned in an earlier post that Pawels wife had moved on and was in a new relationship. Do you have a link for that information please?

I said I'm not convinced he killed her and throw her to the river on this point -in my opinion is not hard evidence he did it .
when other facts comes up I will accept without sadness that it is what happened
you don't need to be "empathetic "(I think it is wrong word ) I'm not treating this case personally
I found news about his wife on her facebook profile it wasn't difficult to find but I will not share link ,you can try find yourself ;-)

 

[porkypies]

I'm surprised such detailed forensics from a completely different case which he has already been found guilty of has been allowed? Will have a profound effect on the jury

could this be because it demonstrates his known modus -operandi? young women, not hiding his face, not afraid of being seen, knickers linked with condoms and his semen.
On the night he was with Libby, her knickers missing? his later masturbating in public and leaving a condom - all fit his known 'preferences'?