UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #23

[Alyce]

This is really difficult to hear for us so cannot imagine how her family are feeling listening to this.

I understand the defence have a job to do and we see this time and time again where the victims actions are used against them but it sounds so harsh.

I dont buy that she was suicidal at all. Drunk and upset yes but she went and sat in a bus stop on a well lit road with people around she should have been safe there. She appeared to be heading home when intercepted by PR and the only reason she ended up at Oak Road is because he took her there.

Feel very sad that her mental health struggles are being used against her. He isnt defending his client he is tarnishing the victim.

This would not sit well with me if I was on the jury.

He isnt defending his client he is tarnishing the victim.

Exactly this. So far, this is a very poor defence.

 

[Cherwell]

I'm not getting steamed up about anything. The defence is just doing what they have to, and they've got nothing so they have to drag up anything they can to cast doubt.

It was suggested he made it harder for her to get out but if that was the case he would have gone around and locked the door.

It's just occurred to me that the car might have had child locks, considering they have young children.

 

[jamjim]

12:58
'What happened at Oak Road?'

Mr Saxby said: “What happened at Oak Road? What is the evidence? Five areas: The CCTV, Alford, Brewster and Durkin, the DNA, evidence of Dr Lyall and evidence of Professor Deakin.

“The prosecution theory: They don’t have to prove precisely how Pawel Relowicz killed Libby Squire but there is only a limited amount of options and they have to prove that he did actually kill her. Their case in opening was that ‘at Oak Road having exited his vehicle, we say Relowicz raped Libby and killed her, causing her death during that act of sexual violence which culminated in him putting her dead or dying into the River Hull’ as in he put his hand over her mouth, asphyxiating her.

“Of the seven and a half minutes he was away from his car, the theory continued, ‘that window was more than enough time for the defendant to have taken or pursue Libby out into the playing fields, sexually attacked and killed her, put her body in the river and run back to the car.’ Sprint, more like.

“They were good enough to accept it was ‘tight’ the timing. You see the maps and the photos, you know the distances and the conditions - dark, wet and slippery. There is a lot to be done in that time, including taking or pursuing her. If there is one bit of hard work I ask you to do is this: What is it they’re saying happened to Libby? They have to present some sort of violent scenario, how did she get to by the water? Did he rape her by the car, kill her there and then carry her? Did he take her along the path and rape her by the pond and kill her? Where was this pursuing? It’s because of the intermittent screaming - not one terrible scream, that’s why they use that word because they want you to picture him pursuing her.

“He did get her over there by the river, one way or another. He took her and chased after her for a period and raped her and so on. No wonder they needed him to be running on Sam Alford’s account. Perhaps because of this problem they have another variation - we were told it is perfectly possible he didn’t put her body into the water until the third visit.

“Those are the theories, framed you may think, by the evidence.”

Libby Squire murder trial live: Defence gives closing statement

 

[Skigh]

He's got to say all this stuff. If he doesn't it'll be part of grounds for appeal (assuming he's convicted). PR won't struggle to find solicitors willing to assist him

Hopefully Mr Saxby is deliberately making sure there will be no possible way PR could launch an appeal if convicted.

 

[jamjim]

13:00
Defence examines evidence - or lack of it - of what happened to Libby

Mr Saxby said: “DNA, they had sex - yes, Dr Lyall - what light does he shed? The knickers, in place and in tact - if they had not been do you have any doubt prosecution would say he ripped them off in a state of sexual violence? Since they were in place, they say that’s what a rapist does - they push them to one side and that proves sexual assault.”

Mr Saxby is now outlining Libby’s injuries and what there was not on Dr Lyall’s evidence. He said: “No evidence of any sexual attack. No bruises on the arms that would suggest grabbing, no injuries such as might be seen where there has been forceful penetration. His evidence doesn’t suggest she was killed by some violent assault or even killed."

Libby Squire murder trial live: Defence gives closing statement

 

[Steve2021]

11:29
Defence barrister turns to the statement from Libby's mum

Mr Saxby said: “Of course there is suicide but something shorter than that. The cry for help, the terrible crying for help which involves not the consideration to take her own life. The prosecution say not to worry about that. Let’s look at the evidence shall we?

“Agreed fact 1: March 28, 2013. A statement read to you from her mother: ‘Aged around 11, Libby suffered with glandular fever and had a real effect on her and I would say she wasn’t her normal self after. During her teenage years she began to suffer with mental health issues and I always worried and often feared I would one day find her dead in her bedroom.’

“Not to worry, usual teenage issues, the prosecution submit.”

Mr Saxby is going back to the statement from Libby’s mum, which also said: “‘Because of these problems, I never really thought I would have Libby for the rest of her life.”

He said: “Sorry, but mental health problems not uncommon for a teenager?

Libby Squire murder trial live: Defence gives closing statement

I think suggesting suicide or putting herself in the river as a cry for help has little more merit than the inference PR must be innocent because he hasn't raped or murdered before....or rather been caught for doing it. Following his reasoning we should conclude Libby must have had opportunities (very difficult moments in her life) previously so would have committed suicide already if she wanted to do it.

 

[elliefant]

I’m hoping Mr Saxby is just ensuring that if a conviction comes there can be no possibility of appeal based on an angle being unpresented. It is really brutal to witness though.

 

[jamjim]

13:02
Defence on how Libby might have died
Mr Saxby said: “Possible ways she might have died:

• "Drowning, some of the possible features were not present. Some of the classical features like fluid on one side of the chest were present - his evidence brushed under the carpet to be found with some of her mental health issues. He said it couldn’t be likely but could be as much as possible as the others.
• “Asphyxiation: Cupping over the mouth to create an airtight seal. Unlike drowning there were none of the signs you can sometimes see. He noted, to be complete, lacerations to the inside of the lip but couldn’t see whether they had been caused before or after death. It isn’t to say she wasn’t asphyxiated but if Dr Lyall was having to rely on pathological evidence that she was asphyxiated then it provides us with no assistance.
  
• “Hypothermia: Professor Deakin was asked for help on five specific questions. Theory meets reality. It’s OK for him to say how he thought she would behave and we have evidence of how she was behaving.”

Mr Saxby has asked whether Libby would be “capable of keeping her footing” in the river if she had fallen or gone in herself - he said: “She would not have survived.”

Libby Squire murder trial live: Defence gives closing statement

 

[jamjim]

13:03
Pause for lunch

The trial has now adjourned for a short lunch break.

Libby Squire murder trial live: Defence gives closing statement

 

[sundaaaay]

Morning all, only now catching up. I just wanted to put forward something I thought of with regards to the post about there being no internet searches after the event (apologies I forget who initially mentioned this). If we look at from the point of view of 'innocence'...he's had a casual one night stand, then next day it's all over local news media that that girl you did this with is now missing! If you were genuinely innocent would this not peek your curiosity slightly? Who was she? What might have happened to her? Would you get the blame? I'm not trying to be confrontational or start a debate but just wanted to put forth another viewpoint that I think the lack of internet searches are equally as damning. He was very clearly forensically aware.

1. He knew where most of the CCTV in the area was located
2. Took her to an area where there was no CCTV directly within the park
3. Washed his clothes and had a bath
4. According to neighbours witness statement washed his car
5. Left his phone at home ~ this for me shows he knows how police use phone data to track criminals would he not then use that same knowledge to make sure he searched nothing to do with the crime knowing that would be one of the first things the police look at with a suspect.
6. Then of course IF he is guilty putting her in the river in his mind would most likely wash away DNA evidence.

Very good point, not searching online at all is equally, if not more suspicious! There are many ways to avoid detection, VPN’s, google incognito, a burner phone etc. Technology companies are hesitant to release private information. I wondered did he use fake social media profiles to be able to know when students weren’t home( to enter their houses) , maybe by looking at their recent Snapchat or Instagram stories.

 

[Steve2021]

11:31
Libby had thought about throwing herself into a river before, defence says

Mr Saxby said: “Her mum provided police with additional information. ‘Libby had a fear of water from a young age. I know she would never voluntarily put herself in water.’

“Two things: It follows that if she fell in, she would have little chance of surviving. Second: This question of water and aversion to it. Agreed fact 11: 'Thought of throwing herself in river in village.'

“A throwaway remark that you are now asked to approach that. Where to start? It is, isn’t it, a really unusual way to consider taking one’s life? For her to have conveyed to medics and doctors.

"Isn’t it something of a coincidence that some six years later here we are in court with a man on trial for murder, his fate resting on whether it is possible his victim may have taken her own life by falling into her own river, reckless of her own safety, a cry for help?

“A pathologist saying she may have drowned on a night she felt abandoned by her friends. She is somebody with a history of serious mental health issues. These are coincidences that the prosecution dreamed.”

Libby Squire murder trial live: Defence gives closing statement

Do people commit suicide on the spur of the moment?

Obviously you are entitled to disagree and I concede I don't know for sure if PR is guilty but when it comes to suicide from what I've heard I'm not even prepared to consider it, and were I on the jury the more the defence seek to play it up as seriously probable rather than theoretically possible the more hostile I would be to their other arguments. Moreso were she suicidal it's damn obvious why... because PR raped her. I think they are playing with fire on that one.

 

[DanCJ]

13:03
Pause for lunch

The trial has now adjourned for a short lunch break.

Libby Squire murder trial live: Defence gives closing statement

Reading that has made me lose my appetite, never mind those in the court room.

 

[HullGirl72]

13:00
Defence examines evidence - or lack of it - of what happened to Libby

Mr Saxby said: “DNA, they had sex - yes, Dr Lyall - what light does he shed? The knickers, in place and in tact - if they had not been do you have any doubt prosecution would say he ripped them off in a state of sexual violence? Since they were in place, they say that’s what a rapist does - they push them to one side and that proves sexual assault.”

Mr Saxby is now outlining Libby’s injuries and what there was not on Dr Lyall’s evidence. He said: “No evidence of any sexual attack. No bruises on the arms that would suggest grabbing, no injuries such as might be seen where there has been forceful penetration. His evidence doesn’t suggest she was killed by some violent assault or even killed."

Libby Squire murder trial live: Defence gives closing statement

Her body was in the water for seven weeks.
If they couldn’t ascertain cause of death by her internal organs, how does he think they could see bruises on her discoloured skin?
Bodies recovered in water are very different to found elsewhere

 

[Newthoughts]

13:00
Defence examines evidence - or lack of it - of what happened to Libby

Mr Saxby said: “DNA, they had sex - yes, Dr Lyall - what light does he shed? The knickers, in place and in tact - if they had not been do you have any doubt prosecution would say he ripped them off in a state of sexual violence? Since they were in place, they say that’s what a rapist does - they push them to one side and that proves sexual assault.”

Mr Saxby is now outlining Libby’s injuries and what there was not on Dr Lyall’s evidence. He said: “No evidence of any sexual attack. No bruises on the arms that would suggest grabbing, no injuries such as might be seen where there has been forceful penetration. His evidence doesn’t suggest she was killed by some violent assault or even killed."

Libby Squire murder trial live: Defence gives closing statement

<modsnip>The pathologist reported a bruise on her arm that could have been where she was grabbed and one on her inner thigh! Several other bruises. Lacerations inside her mouth consistent with blunt trauma.

He didn't say there were no injuries he said they had to be interpreted with caution because of her time in the water! <modsnip>

 

[bos]

Her body was in the water for seven weeks.
If they couldn’t ascertain cause of death by her internal organs, how does he think they could see bruises on her skin?
Bodies recovered in water are very different to found elsewhere

Exactly:absence of evidence isn’t evidence of absence (which I seem to have been saying a lot during this trial).

 

[HollyHunter9]

Very good point, not searching online at all is equally, if not more suspicious! There are many ways to avoid detection, VPN’s, google incognito, a burner phone etc. Technology companies are hesitant to release private information. I wondered did he use fake social media profiles to be able to know when students weren’t home( to enter their houses) , maybe by looking at their recent Snapchat or Instagram stories.

Yes I agree, i think from analysing his previous crimes/behaviour he was clearly leading a double life, so it is quite plausible he may have even had a second untraceable phone to stalk victims/carry out internet searches. The lack of searches on his known phone to me looks more suspicious. JMO

 

[LastSeenWearing]

<modsnip>The pathologist reported a bruise on her arm that could have been where she was grabbed and one on her inner thigh! Several other bruises. Lacerations inside her mouth consistent with blunt trauma.

He didn't say there were no injuries he said they had to be interpreted with caution because of her time in the water! <modsnip>

I think bruises to the legs could be explained by the amount of times Libby fell to the ground that night, bruising to the arms by people pulling her up but lacerations to the inside of the mouth?? I cannot see how that would be caused in a fall but a hand pushing up against a mouth to silence could cause that type of injury.

 

[Cherwell]

I think bruises to the legs could be explained by the amount of times Libby fell to the ground that night, bruising to the arms by people pulling her up but lacerations to the inside of the mouth?? I cannot see how that would be caused in a fall but a hand pushing up against a mouth to silence could cause that type of injury.

Not on the inner thigh.

 

[HullGirl72]

I think bruises to the legs could be explained by the amount of times Libby fell to the ground that night, bruising to the arms by people pulling her up but lacerations to the inside of the mouth?? I cannot see how that would be caused in a fall but a hand pushing up against a mouth to silence could cause that type of injury.

Top inner thigh?
Where would that have made contact with any pavements?
They’re clutching at straws

 

[Newthoughts]

I think bruises to the legs could be explained by the amount of times Libby fell to the ground that night, bruising to the arms by people pulling her up but lacerations to the inside of the mouth?? I cannot see how that would be caused in a fall but a hand pushing up against a mouth to silence could cause that type of injury.

I agree about the bruises to her outer thigh but there was one on her inner thigh as well which he mentioned.

I agree about the lacerations - that does seem more consistent with hand over mouth