UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #23

[jamjim]

I was just curious because if I was a juror I would wonder why no one felt the need to support him. So many families of criminals have stood by them. All we have from his family was they did not think he would do this sort of thing but if so then he must pay. At least that is all I have seen. MOO

Someone on here contacted one of the journos who's in court to ask if he had anyone there - can't remember for the life of me who it was! But the journalist was under the impression there isn't anyone, but can't be 100% sure.

 

[HullGirl72]

Ah, but that's going home, that's the sensible thing to do. I meant randomly wander off from a place of safety.

She was doing her best to stay in a well lit, busy area probably waiting for her friends. Sometimes the best part of the night is in the takeaway afterwards.
He took her to a place she wasn’t safe.

 

[Newthoughts]

I have
I’ve made my own way home if I couldn’t get into clubs.

I have too. Makes my blood run cold now but at that age you really do think you're invincible.

I'm a huggy, trusting, gullible drunk. Everyone is my mate. Whereas normally I'm cynical as hell

 

[Newthoughts]

I have
I’ve made my own way home if I couldn’t get into clubs.

I have too. Makes my blood run cold now but at that age you really do think you're invincible.

I'm a huggy, trusting, gullible drunk. Everyone is my mate. Whereas normally I'm cynical as hell

 

[Scorpiette]

Yes he did. He said he put her seatbelt why hasn't that been disallowed?

From the CCTV it looked to me like she put her seatbelt on. I always thought PR saying he did, was to explain if his clothes fibres were subsequently found on Libby. More lies from PR!!

 

[Winterbells]

I still think she might have been trying to make her way back to the Welly.

Yes, that's a possibility. She'd said she'd walk home rather than be put in a taxi. I can remember being young and drunk and not wanting the party to end, no matter what. She may have just wanted to stay near the Welly; near to where the party was happening.

 

[tedtink]

Sometimes you don’t want your night to end so quickly and go home drunk alone. I’ve been there.

Me too, plenty of times - 12am would be 'the night is young'!

 

[JosieJo]

13:02
Defence on how Libby might have died
Mr Saxby said: “Possible ways she might have died:

• "Drowning, some of the possible features were not present. Some of the classical features like fluid on one side of the chest were present - his evidence brushed under the carpet to be found with some of her mental health issues. He said it couldn’t be likely but could be as much as possible as the others.
• “Asphyxiation: Cupping over the mouth to create an airtight seal. Unlike drowning there were none of the signs you can sometimes see. He noted, to be complete, lacerations to the inside of the lip but couldn’t see whether they had been caused before or after death. It isn’t to say she wasn’t asphyxiated but if Dr Lyall was having to rely on pathological evidence that she was asphyxiated then it provides us with no assistance.
  
• “Hypothermia: Professor Deakin was asked for help on five specific questions. Theory meets reality. It’s OK for him to say how he thought she would behave and we have evidence of how she was behaving.”

Mr Saxby has asked whether Libby would be “capable of keeping her footing” in the river if she had fallen or gone in herself - he said: “She would not have survived.”

Libby Squire murder trial live: Defence gives closing statement

This seems to give a different picture ...and more info that I've read previously..some signs of drowning and none of asphyxiation

 

[bos]

Screaming to me is high pitched expulsion of sound with no words or attempted words.

I think some people may use screaming to indicate high pitched sound generally i.e to include words

 

[HullGirl72]

Me too, plenty of times - 12am would be 'the night is young'!

When I was that age midnight would be the start of the night!

 

[Stumpyaura]

This defence is worse than I imagined it would be. Yes, he has to defend his client but you would expect some sensitivity around the traumatic aspects he's raising. You'd imagine he would tread very carefully when blaming Libby's death on her previous mental health issues (conveniently leaving out what the possible reason that she could be so distressed about or the reason why she was in a dark park, near to a river)

He's currently serving 8.5 years for crimes that are being diminished as some kind of kink that we might not like but he's not doing any harm to anyone. Imagine how the victims of those crimes feel hearing this - I read the account when it posted yesterday, from the girl whose window she stuck his head through and how it changed her life.

And finally the line he is taking on rape is a very strange one. Obviously things might get lost in reporting but he seems to be making a distinction between rape and having sex when you know it's wrong. It's absurd and offensive! They are the same thing in the way he means it. Awful to diminish rape where one person can't give consent. I don't think that was the scenario anyway but just commenting on his defence. And also to talk about lack of evidence it was a violent sexual assault meaning it wasn't rape is a very dates defence IMO

 

[JosieJo]

<modsnip>The pathologist reported a bruise on her arm that could have been where she was grabbed and one on her inner thigh! Several other bruises. Lacerations inside her mouth consistent with blunt trauma.

He didn't say there were no injuries he said they had to be interpreted with caution because of her time in the water! <modsnip>

I remember the pathologist saying bruises on arm did he say they looked like grab marks or was that the inference we took? I can't remember

 

[HullGirl72]

This seems to give a different picture ...and more info that I've read previously..some signs of drowning and none of asphyxiation

It said some water in the left side
Not like as if she drowned.
It could be it was after death
Water is funny like that.
It travels into all available space.
If she’d drowned they’d be full

 

[JosieJo]

This seems to give a different picture ...and more info that I've read previously..some signs of drowning and none of asphyxiation

I do not remember this information

"Some of the classical features like fluid on one side of the chest were present"

 

[HullGirl72]

I do not remember this information

"Some of the classical features like fluid on one side of the chest were present"

Some fluid could easily travel after death
If she drowned they’d be full
He’s stating the obvious to suit his narrative without explaining the science behind it.
PR assumed after death the water would travel into her and wash his dna away

 

[HollyHunter9]

He was leading a double life and very successfully too, and in the vicinity of his own home. I think part of this success is similar to many criminals in the fact that he’s actually naturally very indistinct looking and that he lives in a place with a transient population. None of his characteristics are memorable. He sort of looks like a student, when he’s out committing crimes he runs off and he looks like someone going for a run. His clothes are completely normal and he could be any nationality. When he’s caught peeping he says he’s delivering pizza, he speaks English but when it doesn’t suit him he doesn’t. When he finds the perfect victim he claims he’s trying to help yet he brings them to ORPF. Even here people again give him the benefit of the doubt but I think he’s smarter than he looks.

100% agree!

 

[stephaniejanes]

I completely agree. I was very much like you in my late teens.

Long time lurker, but felt compelled to post today.

This part of the trial has really upset me on a visceral level. When I was 19 I was in a situation very much like Libby - a man offered to help me when I was extremely drunk. He ended up violently assaulting me, but I managed to escape. I truly thought I was going to die. At his trial they brought up my precarious mental health too. For me, this was the hardest part of the trial - that this man who only knew me because he hurt me was allowed to know my innermost thoughts, and then use those to say I was a liar. It was such a violation, and nothing to do with what he did that night. Much like Libby, they also tried to make out I was upset because he had rejected me. Thankfully, the jury saw through it. But it was horrific. Ten years on I don't think I will ever truly get over what happened in those six months - the assault, the trial.

I am so so sorry Libby's family are having to listen to this. I am so sorry that she wasn't as lucky as me. It is beyond cruel and gross that they are painting her in this way. I really hope the jury see through this.

And yes, I understand the defence have a job to do, of course, and of course I lack any impartiality. My heart just aches for Libby and her loved ones.

I'm sorry for what you went through. It is so unfair that in these sorts of cases, the victim ends up being the one on trial, so to speak. Their character is torn apart. The inclusion of, quite frankly irrelevant, medical records for the world to pour over seems such an intrusion.

 

[Steve2021]

Hi all. Sending strength and love to Libby’s family, boyfriend and friends. I am a long time reader on this site but have read every single message on all 23 threads on this case; I joined solely to find justice for Libby, as so many other people have. I am writing now as reading the defence is disgusting. I have two toddler girls and the heartbreakingly tragic night for Libby struck such a chord with me whilst trying to nurture and protect my girls in their early years. Libby was clearly a very strong, brave and caring young lady. Her mother sounds just wonderful.

I have been so moved by the comments and care of the people following Libby’s case on here, it’s just so dreadfully sad that the world just takes innocent, lovely people from their families by the hands of sick individuals who believe their entitlement to do what they want overrides the safety and happiness of someone else, overrides someone else’s life. It’s hard not to write without great emotion. PR is an extremely dangerous, calculated, manipulative, controlling, compulsive lying individual and I find him guilty on both counts. MOO

Welcome. I know exactly how you feel as I feel the same. I only joined here because of Libby and I have read every single post over the past 2 years but only decided to step out and write one of my own last week. It's making me cry reading what the defence is saying about Libby. I don't care, they can talk about suicide all day, I'm not interested. All I see is an intelligent young woman from a good home overcoming the hurdles we all face in life who'd no doubt have become a fine mother herself one day. There's only one reason why she won't now...PR.

 

[ChiCubs2016]

I completely agree. I was very much like you in my late teens.

Long time lurker, but felt compelled to post today.

This part of the trial has really upset me on a visceral level. When I was 19 I was in a situation very much like Libby - a man offered to help me when I was extremely drunk. He ended up violently assaulting me, but I managed to escape. I truly thought I was going to die. At his trial they brought up my precarious mental health too. For me, this was the hardest part of the trial - that this man who only knew me because he hurt me was allowed to know my innermost thoughts, and then use those to say I was a liar. It was such a violation, and nothing to do with what he did that night. Much like Libby, they also tried to make out I was upset because he had rejected me. Thankfully, the jury saw through it. But it was horrific. Ten years on I don't think I will ever truly get over what happened in those six months - the assault, the trial.

I am so so sorry Libby's family are having to listen to this. I am so sorry that she wasn't as lucky as me. It is beyond cruel and gross that they are painting her in this way. I really hope the jury see through this.

And yes, I understand the defence have a job to do, of course, and of course I lack any impartiality. My heart just aches for Libby and her loved ones.

Thank you for posting and sharing this with us. I am sorry you had to go through this. It is terrible and disgusting. I will never understand why courts find it acceptable to use victims past against them. Especially when the victim is so young like yourself. No one deserves this sort of violence. You coming here and posting this proves you are a strong, amazing person!!

 

[JosieJo]

12:38
Defence casts doubt over Libby getting into Relowicz's car

Mr Saxby said: “The prosecution can’t say he saw her - he wasn’t anywhere near her when she was walking down Beverley Road. They say he waited in the shadows of Beresford Avenue, you can see he goes right into Beresford Avenue and then he intercepts her, the prosecution say his plan to abduct, rape and kill her.

“The prosecution said about CCTV: ‘What we see is movement lasting several seconds, toing and froing between them.’ Whether she was forced or persuaded into the vehicle may never be clear from that CCTV footage. During cross-examination their stance changed to force.

“I don’t know what you found but it is the sort of footage, the more you look at it the more you think you see and you realise you start seeing things that aren’t there, shadows, limbs and so on. You’re desperate to find something from it. Echoing what I think will be said to you in due course, beware of over-analysing this footage. This is not me saying do not look at it, it is me saying proceed please with caution.

“Cars and people aplenty going up and down Beverley Road. How many times the car lights flashed? You have an agreed fact on the lights flashing and the locking mechanism. Unlock is two flashes. What you see is uncertain with what he has said. She gets into the car - you can see her leg on the CCTV, she isn’t being forced in, she puts her seatbelt on. It was suggested he made it harder for her to get out but if that was the case he would have gone around and locked the door. It was suggested he knew where he was going to take her from the start. He said she directed him to Beresford Avenue but there was nothing more said and he went down to Oak Road to turn around.”

Libby Squire murder trial live: Defence gives closing statement

I think this should read he ..not she ...the defence is pointing out the prosecution said him putting her seat belt on suggests he wanted it to be harder to get out
He is countering that by saying so why did he not go round and lock the door

"she puts her seatbelt on. It was suggested he made it harder for her to get out but if that was the case he would have gone around and locked the door."

I think we know there have been lots of errors that have been edited later previously