Found Deceased UK - Lindsay Birbeck, 47, Accrington, 12 Aug 2019 *Arrest* #3

[Kaykedi]

Easy to manipulate, maybe all they needed was someone to "take care of the body" while they got away...
Maybe he was told to wait around that day, and maybe the coat was hung to signify where the body was... I know he said he met a hooded guy, but that could be a cover story, maybe he knew she was gonna come to harm because someone had messaged or rung him and they had told him to wait around?
Just thoughts...
If he did plan on killing her he did a **** job of covering his tracks after, didn't plan it well... If he did it randomly why didn't he leave her where she was? Why not cover her body and leg it?

All the crime experts say that a person who commits a random attack flees the scene don't they. They don't hang around to clean up the crime

 

[MusicalMonkey]

Easy to manipulate, maybe all they needed was someone to "take care of the body" while they got away...
Maybe he was told to wait around that day, and maybe the coat was hung to signify where the body was... I know he said he met a hooded guy, but that could be a cover story, maybe he knew she was gonna come to harm because someone had messaged or rung him and they had told him to wait around?
Just thoughts...
If he did plan on killing her he did a **** job of covering his tracks after, didn't plan it well... If he did it randomly why didn't he leave her where she was? Why not cover her body and leg it?

Is anyone able to mark on the map where exactly the coat was on the barbed wire fence?

We could actually do with our own map couldn't we? With all the details on it.

 

[MusicalMonkey]

If he did kill Lindsay would he have confided to someone else in his family and been given advice on how to dispose of her body?

Surely the best way would have been for a big 'scrap metal truck' to turn up and take the bin away.

Bye bye body.

 

[Kaykedi]

Is anyone able to mark on the map where exactly the coat was on the barbed wire fence?

We could actually do with our own map couldn't we? With all the details on it.

I think it's where Hillside Funeral Directors is

 

[sunflower22]

We are in the very early stages of the trial, there will be alot more information to come to light. IMO - They still have evidence which will link him to her murder, for example, maybe his DNA under her nails?
His internet searches leading up to, and after her death.

I have and continue to believe she was unfortunately in the wrong place at the wrong time, and was victim to a random attack. The fact her body was found naked suggests to me a sexual motive.

I don’t think it was random, he was around the area before she left her home, did someone know she had just got back from her shopping trip around the time he was seen and told him to be on stand by,He was 16 she was in 40s can’t really see a sexual motive but just my thoughts

 

[Rosegold68]

the defendant fulfilled his part and did as asked (by supposed man).....so wheres his money? was t left? whats the story there then?

 

[SpursGyal]

I don't think age is relevant to it being sexually motivated.

 

[Legally Bland]

Easy to manipulate, maybe all they needed was someone to "take care of the body" while they got away...
Maybe he was told to wait around that day, and maybe the coat was hung to signify where the body was... I know he said he met a hooded guy, but that could be a cover story, maybe he knew she was gonna come to harm because someone had messaged or rung him and they had told him to wait around?
Just thoughts...
If he did plan on killing her he did a **** job of covering his tracks after, didn't plan it well... If he did it randomly why didn't he leave her where she was? Why not cover her body and leg it?

I think he did "cover her body and leg it". Just my opinion.

Then decided he needed to move it.

But whatever scenario, there wasn't much logic to it.

 

[sunflower22]

the defendant fulfilled his part and did as asked (by supposed man).....so wheres his money? was t left? whats the story there then?

The money has already been given to the person that

the defendant fulfilled his part and did as asked (by supposed man).....so wheres his money? was t left? whats the story there then?

my thought is that someone from their community was paid to do this, he then got the defendant to cover it up. They will not grass on their own hence why he won’t name the hooded man. That’s my thought on it all.

 

[Kaykedi]

I don’t think it was random, he was around the area before she left her home, did someone know she had just got back from her shopping trip around the time he was seen and told him to be on stand by,He was 16 she was in 40s can’t really see a sexual motive but just my thoughts

Perhaps not random then, opportunistic. Opportunistic if he was 'working alone'. If a male is sexually motivated to attack a female, her age is irrelevant to him. Yes, there would be people who would know her movements I'm sure due to her being an organised person, and, awaiting the arrival of her daughter for tea

 

[Legally Bland]

The money has already been given to the person that

my thought is that someone from their community was paid to do this, he then got the defendant to cover it up. They will not grass on their own hence why he won’t name the hooded man. That’s my thought on it all.

The defendant's parents "grassed" him up.

 

[Kaykedi]

The defendant's parents grassed him up.

Do you think they did grass him up, or, do you think they may have taken him to the police station thinking he hasn't murdered that lady, and, the sooner we explain that to the police the better?

 

[sunflower22]

The defendant's parents grassed him up.

I wouldn’t say they grassed him up, his face was all over the news, they where coming for him either way, maybe it looked less guilty if they took him to the station? I don’t know

 

[Legally Bland]

Do you think they did grass him up, or, do you think they may have taken him to the police station thinking he hasn't murdered that lady, and, the sooner we explain that to the police the better?

Sorry, grassed is the wrong word.

I was using the terminology of the post I was replying to. They did what was right.

The implication was they will not cooperate with the police. They did.

There was no wall of silence.

 

[Kaykedi]

Sorry, grassed is the wrong word.

I was using the terminology of the post I was replying to. They did what was right.

The implication was they will not cooperate with the police. They did.

There was no wall of silence.

I understand why you used the term grassed. I was surprised when I heard his parents gave him up

 

[Legally Bland]

I understand why you used the term grassed. I was surprised when I heard his parents gave him up

There is an argument here (not by you) that his parents will give their son up, but not give up the real murderer, because of their "community".

I don't see it.

I don't see it in the court reporting either, but it's early days there too.

We haven't heard the defence yet in fairness.

 

[MusicalMonkey]

I understand why you used the term grassed. I was surprised when I heard his parents gave him up

There really wasn't any other option after this:

Suspect identified in hunt for killer

I would think calls were already coming in to the police to say 'That's (the name we all know but can't say) and he lives at (address).

 

[RachelZachary]

We know that he was seen heading to The Coppice at 2:27pm. What was he doing there? Lindsey leaves her house at 4pm, presumably for a walk in The Coppice. Dog walkers see her coat at 4:20pm and “heard a voice”. He is eventually seen leaving The Coppice at 6:19pm. What has he been doing there since 2:27pm?? He returns with his rucksack, then at 8:28pm with the wheelie bin.

Surely if the hooded man exists, we will see evidence of this through CCTV. If someone else did murder her, surely they will be on the CCTV too, and the defendant could be asked to identify them. Is there evidence of anyone else’s DNA?

How much money did they offer him? Is this the type of thing he has done before? Why would he accept such a task so readily from a complete stranger? We haven’t heard how his learning difficulties may impact his decision making, but he clearly has mental capacity for right and wrong or he wouldn’t be standing trial?

 

[Legally Bland]

We know that he was seen heading to The Coppice at 2:27pm. What was he doing there? Lindsey leaves her house at 4pm, presumably for a walk in The Coppice. Dog walkers see her coat at 4:20pm and “heard a voice”. He is eventually seen leaving The Coppice at 6:19pm. What has he been doing there since 2:27pm?? He returns with his rucksack, then at 8:28pm with the wheelie bin.

Surely if the hooded man exists, we will see evidence of this through CCTV. If someone else did murder her, surely they will be on the CCTV too, and the defendant could be asked to identify them. Is there evidence of anyone else’s DNA?

How much money did they offer him? Is this the type of thing he has done before? Why would he accept such a task so readily from a complete stranger? We haven’t heard how his learning difficulties may impact his decision making, but he clearly has mental capacity for right and wrong or he wouldn’t be standing trial?

Great post. It's sometimes good to refocus on what we know.

 

[MusicalMonkey]

We know that he was seen heading to The Coppice at 2:27pm. What was he doing there? Lindsey leaves her house at 4pm, presumably for a walk in The Coppice. Dog walkers see her coat at 4:20pm and “heard voices”. He is eventually seen leaving The Coppice at 6:19pm. What has he been doing there since 2:27pm?? He returns with his rucksack, then at 8:28pm with the wheelie bin.

Surely if the hooded man exists, we will see evidence of this through CCTV. If someone else did murder her, surely they will be on the CCTV too, and the defendant could be asked to identify them. Is there evidence of anyone else’s DNA?

How much money did they offer him? Is this the type of thing he has done before? Why would he accept such a task so readily from a complete stranger? We haven’t heard how his learning difficulties may impact his decision making, but he clearly has mental capacity for right and wrong or he wouldn’t be standing trial?

I was trying to imagine what baloney the defence may come up with regarding that and the only thing I can think off it that they will make out that the hooded man may have come from the direction of Accrington Bypass where there are fields, back roads and farmland - and many ways to enter and exit avoiding any possible witness sightings and CCTV.

As f0r the Hooded Man's DNA. Well, yes that's the other thing. As far as I'm aware there isn't any. The defence might use the decomposition of the body and/or lack of a murder location as a defence.

But then it goes back to the story telling. Surely the defendant is going to have to take to the stand and explain EXACTLY where he met the Hooded Man and how he showed him where the body is? If they claim he 'doesn't know/remember' and go back to the 'moderate learning difficulties' as a reason for this, well I'm not sure what the jury would think about that. But I'd say there isn't really a credible reason for it other than 'story telling'.
If he had some kind of bizarre goldfish memory syndrome he wouldn't remember where the body was, right?
Or be able to do the 'dry run' and move and return to the body several times etc.

None of it is credible. That's why I can't quite believe he's pleaded not guilty.
Some people here are wondering if the defence is going to drop some bombshell at some point. As it's just a really weird situation all round.

From an interest point of view I think we'll all be disappointed if he suddenly changes his plea to guilty or that the 'defence' were just in it for the extra money from spinning out a trial (as is often the 'solicitor way') rather than having anything more credible.