GUILTY UK - Lindsay Birbeck, 47, Accrington, 12 Aug 2019 *Arrest* #3

[MusicalMonkey]

The perks of having a top defence lawyer! He's very very good.

At the start some of us did wonder why a 'top lawyer' would be taking on this case.

Now we are seeing why.

 

[Ann Blyth]

At the start some of us did wonder why a 'top lawyer' would be taking on this case.

Now we are seeing why.

The lad is very lucky that his top notch defence is paid for via Legal Aid and doesn’t get saddled with any old barrister!

 

[Alyce]

Mrs Braithwaite said she did not get close enough to see his face but said he was wearing a grey hooded top, matching trousers and black trainers. She noted the hood was up throughout and his hands were in his pockets all the time.

Lindsay Birbeck murder trial: 'Walker felt wary of youth who looked out of place in woods'

ETA: If this was in the live reporting I think I missed it too.

me too !


And this section, from the same article, explains far better the evidence of ZB walking through the Coppice.
She actually came off the main path and cut through moorland, in order to avoid the man and was then surprised when she got back onto the main path to see him behind her, looking as though he had just stopped running.


She said she noticed a lone male figure on a parallel path before the paths eventually met and split.

Mrs Braithwaite said: "I had decided that whichever way he went I would take another route because, from the first time I saw him, I was wary of him. He looked out of place in the woods."


She said she slowed down because she did not want to be front of him and then cut across open moorland.


Mrs Braithwaite said she was then "surprised" to see the young male 50 yards away when she rejoined the main path and glanced back.


She said: "He pulled up as if he had been running. That's when I became concerned and I picked up my pace and went down the descent as quick as I could.

 

[Alyce]

This was the last section on Lancashire Telegraph before they ended today


Before the jury left it heard the defendant could be "easily led" if he was told to take something somewhere.


The teacher said: "He could not ask a lot of questions as to why he was doing it."


The court heard the teacher describe the defendant as "quite placid" and easy-going.


DAY FIVE: Lindsay Birbeck trial continues

 

[MusicalMonkey]

Hmm. So he works out at the gym, spends a lot of time walking and doing physical activity, will do any task asked of him, but he’s “tired”? Mentally perhaps? Aren’t we all!

If we are to believe that someone else murdered Lindsey and asked him to move the body, it must surely have been someone that knew him and knew that he would do anything practical “without question”.

Though I think a teacher asking you to do a practical activity at school is very different to a complete stranger you meet in the woods asking you to move a dead body..unless you have no concept of right and wrong?

Seemingly 'being easily led' into doing things only relates to physical things?

Being easily led into telling the truth therefore doesn't count?

All I've heard from the defence so far seems to have come 100% from the 'solicitors'.

 

[MusicalMonkey]

me too !


And this section, from the same article, explains far better the evidence of ZB walking through the Coppice.
She actually came off the main path and cut through moorland, in order to avoid the man and was then surprised when she got back onto the main path to see him behind her, looking as though he had just stopped running.


She said she noticed a lone male figure on a parallel path before the paths eventually met and split.

Mrs Braithwaite said: "I had decided that whichever way he went I would take another route because, from the first time I saw him, I was wary of him. He looked out of place in the woods."


She said she slowed down because she did not want to be front of him and then cut across open moorland.


Mrs Braithwaite said she was then "surprised" to see the young male 50 yards away when she rejoined the main path and glanced back.


She said: "He pulled up as if he had been running. That's when I became concerned and I picked up my pace and went down the descent as quick as I could.

Does anyone have any ideas exactly where this open moorland is?

 

[Bampot]

From Doris's map I imagine the moorland to be where the arrows are but I could be totally wrong. She was walking (very speedily) to a car park wasn't she. What car park could it be? That might help us

 

[Alyce]

Does anyone have any ideas exactly where this open moorland is?

I would say it's the open section below the dense shrubbery of The Coppice.

On your map here, the pale green tree icon on the grass area, just above the red circle.

 

[Ann Blyth]

Seemingly 'being easily led' into doing things only relates to physical things?

Being easily led into telling the truth therefore doesn't count?

All I've heard from the defence so far seems to have come 100% from the 'solicitors'.

Of course, the defence are capitalising on his ASD, we'll see a report in due course, from a psychologist, I’m sure. Wether it will be enough to get him off the murder charge, time will tell, and I believe the only charge on the indictment is murder at this time. Wonder if the CPS offer a plea to a lesser charge at some point?

EBM to correct my dreadful grammar!

 

[sunflower22]

Has anyone’s views been changed by what they have heard today? Is it a public gallery the whole trial?

 

[Kaykedi]

At the start some of us did wonder why a 'top lawyer' would be taking on this case.

Now we are seeing why.

What do you mean MusicalMonkey? His autism/learning difficulties, or, other?

 

[MusicalMonkey]

EDIT: I'VE UPDATED THE MAP INFO (and message) to account for my error:

*Note - The times shown are CCTV times from Burnley Road (Lindsay) and Elmwood Close, and Peel Park Hotel (Zoe).

Some minutes can be added on according to the particular route taken (in the case of Lindsay)

What are we thinking? The same attacker? Any ideas as to the routes?

 

[MusicalMonkey]

I would say it's the open section below the dense shrubbery of The Coppice.

On your map here, the pale green tree icon on the grass area, just above the red circle.

Thumbnail alert

Are you able to mark where you mean? I'm trying to get a picture of where Zoe meant when she said she 'looked left' through trees at a parallel path (that then joins up with the path she was on).

 

[SpursGyal]

Has anyone’s views been changed by what they have heard today? Is it a public gallery the whole trial?

No. I think I’m still on the theory of a Lone, Random attack, I don’t think he set out to Kill her, but something went wrong and he panicked. I really think his hooded man is just a fairytale.

Yes, it’s open trial, public gallery.

 

[MusicalMonkey]

*Note - The times shown are CCTV times from Burnley Road (Lindsay) and Elmwood Close (Zoe).

Some minutes can be added on according to the particular route taken.

What are we thinking? The same attacker? Any ideas as to the routes?

Actually. Scratch that map. I just realised the 'Exit Coppice' CCTV time of 1604 should have been 'Peel Park Hotel Area'.

The jury is being shown CCTV of the witness on Elmwood Close walking towards the Coppice in Accrington at 3.44pm and then walking back at around 4.04pm near to the Peel Park Hotel.

Though it's not 100% clear from the reporting. 'Walking back . . . walking back where?

I presume Zoe was that spooked that she exited the Coppice as a matter of urgency (a different way to where she entered and walked back home a different way) - past the Peel Park Hotel (and hence not passing the original CCTV on Elmwood Close).

 

[sunflower22]

No. I think I’m still on the theory of a Lone, Random attack, I don’t think he set out to Kill her, but something went wrong and he panicked. I really think his hooded man is just a fairytale.

Yes, it’s open trial, public gallery.

Would be interested in going but I should imagine it would be full with press etc

 

[SpursGyal]

I know that people managed to sit in Thursday. Always worth a try.

 

[Skigh]

I am surprised that it has not really featured in the national papers .
There again they are busy showing empty shelves in supermarkets!

 

[MusicalMonkey]

No. I think I’m still on the theory of a Lone, Random attack, I don’t think he set out to Kill her, but something went wrong and he panicked. I really think his hooded man is just a fairytale.

Yes, it’s open trial, public gallery.

What do you think about Zoe Braithwaite's account?

If her account is to be believed, one can presume that the 'attacker' (assuming 'lone') was in attack mode at that time and that Zoe probably had a lucky escape.

 

[MusicalMonkey]

I know that people managed to sit in Thursday. Always worth a try.

Do you know what time they went? Or how big the gallery actually is (in terms of seats)?

It's my understanding that some spaces are already reserved (obviously for family and possibly one or two others). So I do wonder how many 'turn up on the day' seats are available.