Found Deceased UK - Lindsay Birbeck, 47, Accrington, 12 Aug 2019 *Arrest* #3

[Angleterre]

Do we know when the cemetery was searched with dogs? maybe this happened before she was moved there & maybe he knew this if he was watching for when the search moved away from the cemetery

I think dogs would find a lot to be interested in in a cemetery, not every person is embalmed & even if are they will still decay

Even if it was searched before she was moved there , the SIO has to detail in a policy book , every line of enquiry that is considered and followed through with and the results or if it’s considered and discounted and the reason why that is the case .. all this is done under various strategy headings , one of which will be Searches . In that strategy you will write that the dog handler has completed this task without success BUT as the enquiry develops and there’s more information that comes to light and the cemetery /coppice/Whittaker’s is mentioned then you review your policy book and strategies and that is done not just by the SIO but by another DCI because with the best will in the world, when managing a hi profile case like this, you may just miss something and it’s for that reason and a fresh pair of eyes , that the policy book and strategies within, are reviewed .
It’s at this stage in time that I would have thought that it would be prudent to revisit the area with a GSD to see if there’s anything that has been missed, especially once they knew that she had in fact been in that location . As I have said before and I will say again, the benefit of hindsight is a wonderful thing and it’s easy to sit here and be the should have , would have, could have squad ... but these are basics ....

 

[Dcflag]

I feel the lack of evidence suggests even more the involvement of someone else, this dude has made no attempts to cover his own tracks, hide himself from being sighted, moved her in broad daylight, abandoned everything at the disposal site.
but yet someone has gone to great lengths to hide her belongings & her phone/fitbit etc & managed to remove everything & anything that could be brought forward as evidence.

It just doesn't make sense, if we are believe that he is below average intelligence and has the mind of a child.

See I think it actually just suggests a lack of evidence and nothing more. I also don't believe he has the mind of a child. I don't think he is as unintelligent as is being made out. A mild learning disability isn't hugely debilitating and the iq suggested with that severity is low, but not that low.

I think the way information has spread online has turned into the Chinese whispers game a little bit

 

[Angleterre]

Agreed, in fact I’m surprised when it went to the CPS for charging, that the CPS thought there was enough evidence to charge him, @Angleterre , what are your thoughts?

@Ann Blyth
I am very surprised that it passed the threshold test. There’s not even the fact that it could have passed the threshold test based on incomplete DNA or Technology results to be awaited and it passed based on awaiting positive results from there but that can’t be the case because there was no DNA or Technology recovered to be submitted and the results to be awaited and the prosecution to go ahead based upon these results... IYKWIM ?

 

[Angleterre]

Whenever competency of searching for a person is discussed I always think back to a case on here, some of the more frequent older ws members may remember it.

It was an a woman and husband (and maybe her son?) In Scotland. They had CCTV of her last sighting walking by herself but couldn't find her anywhere. They had both police and civilian searches going on. The husband actually flew back to America.

The case was solved when she was found, largely down to this website in fact, when a friend of hers from America teamed up with someone from ws and flew to Scotland. They undertook their own searches with the ws goers dogs and found her, sitting under a tree.

She had remarkably been missed in all of the searches despite being in the searched area. Unfortunately she had passed (if that wasn't obvious)

But it goes to show, even when someone is essentially hiding in plain sight, they can be missed in various professional and non professional searches. Which is why it sticks in my brain.

I wish I could remember the poor woman's name.

I read about that case recently
Susan McClean ?
To be fair though she was some distance away from where last sighted and across a main road and down in the undergrowth and unless I am mistaken, the dogs weren’t deployed straight away? But yes, they are not foolproof and can get it wrong...

 

[Rosegold68]

as for Lindsays missing belongings....how likely is it there would be incinerators etc on the caravan site? google maps doesn't zoom all the way in but looks like theres multiple ways of disposing of items

 

[Angleterre]

See I think it actually just suggests a lack of evidence and nothing more. I also don't believe he has the mind of a child. I don't think he is as unintelligent as is being made out. A mild learning disability isn't hugely debilitating and the iq suggested with that severity is low, but not that low.

I think the way information has spread online has turned into the Chinese whispers game a little bit

I think that you are right and he is more able to comprehend than he is being given credit for... moo

 

[Angleterre]

as for Lindsays missing belongings....how likely is it there would be incinerators etc on the caravan site? google maps doesn't zoom all the way in but looks like theres multiple ways of disposing of items

To be fair @Rosegold there’s a million and one places that they could be and plenty of time was had to do the disposal ...
I just don’t understand the lack of any phone evidence unless it was done and nothing of value was gleaned but that would be very unusual in this day and age ...

 

[MusicalMonkey]

Absolutely. I know it gives that element of doubt but I really am surprised so many people have given the idea the time of day to be honest. Given the timeframes involved from leaving her house to dead, it would be highly unlikely a second person was involved. Plus he was on the coppice for hours before she died, yet the man asked him on Burnley road. What was he doing on the coppice all those hours? Did he leave after a few hours, have the encounter and go back? It's a wildly tall tale.

It just goes to show how it's worked on a lot of people's psyche here. So one can only wonder if the jury are thinking the same way.

It's a pity that Zoe Braithwaite's witness account has been so easily 'discredited'. As it seems like that was probably the strongest piece of circumstantial evidence the prosecution had.
Obviously there's no blame on her part (she basically escaped being attacked and probably murdered) - but speaking from a purely evidence wise point of view - not even close to a positive id means it's very flimsy.

To add: I think you're referring to the 'Hooded Man' on Burley Road?
The location hasn't been disclosed, as it forms part of the defence's 'I'm a public mute' story.

 

[Thelastleg]

Whenever competency of searching for a person is discussed I always think back to a case on here, some of the more frequent older ws members may remember it.

It was an a woman and husband (and maybe her son?) In Scotland. They had CCTV of her last sighting walking by herself but couldn't find her anywhere. They had both police and civilian searches going on. The husband actually flew back to America.

The case was solved when she was found, largely down to this website in fact, when a friend of hers from America teamed up with someone from ws and flew to Scotland. They undertook their own searches with the ws goers dogs and found her, sitting under a tree.

She had remarkably been missed in all of the searches despite being in the searched area. Unfortunately she had passed (if that wasn't obvious)

But it goes to show, even when someone is essentially hiding in plain sight, they can be missed in various professional and non professional searches. Which is why it sticks in my brain.

I wish I could remember the poor woman's name.

Was it Susan McLean?

 

[Thelastleg]

After the defendant's prepared statement saying that he was only asked to move the body, was it ever established if the body was clothed or not when he put her in the bin?

 

[Ann Blyth]

Not to my knowledge, the pre prepared statement didn’t go into extreme detail despite being fairly lengthy, he hasn’t even said where he picked her up nor where he was meant to collect his cash for the job.

 

[MusicalMonkey]

Just wondering if we can have a roll call. Just for interest purposes. The trial will come to a conclusion next week. So based on what we know so far and also your hunches/theories:

Who do you think killed Lindsay (as in the actual murder, not including any possible cover-up help)?
(please add your username and repost)

The Defendant:
MusicalMonkey

The Hooded Man:


A Family Member or Close Known Associate:


Combination of The Defendant and The Hooded Man:


Combination of The Defendant and Family Member or Close Known Associate:


Someone else (please state):


Edit: I'll clean up the tally when I go through the messages and then repost.

 

[Ann Blyth]

I think that you are right and he is more able to comprehend than he is being given credit for... moo

Possibly, but his learning difficulty is moderate apparently, and I also believe he knows right from wrong but still can’t shake off that someone else has been involved somewhere along the line, whether that is the murder, assisting the defendant with hiding the body or something along those lines.

 

[Ann Blyth]

Just wondering if we can have a roll call. Just for interest purposes. The trial will come to a conclusion next week. So based on what we know so far and also your hunches/theories:

Who do you think killed Lindsay (as in the actual murder, not including any possible cover-up help)?
(please add your username and repost)

The Defendant:
MusicalMonkey

The Hooded Man:


A Family Member or Close Known Associate:


Combination of The Defendant and The Hooded Man:


Combination of The Defendant and Family Member or Close Known Associate: Ann Blyth


Someone else (please state):

 

[sunflower22]

Just wondering if we can have a roll call. Just for interest purposes. The trial will come to a conclusion next week. So based on what we know so far and also your hunches/theories:

Who do you think killed Lindsay (as in the actual murder, not including any possible cover-up help)?
(please add your username and repost)

The Defendant:
MusicalMonkey

The Hooded Man:


A Family Member or Close Known Associate:
Sunflower22

Combination of The Defendant and The Hooded Man:


Combination of The Defendant and Family Member or Close Known Associate:


Someone else (please state):

 

[Alyce]

Re murder location. Always possible LB was not killed on The Coppice. Defendant had a knife. Could have forced her into one of the outbuildings - not the chicken sheds but that creepy circular building back of the pub.
Leaves body there until evening. Brings wheelie bin. Puts body inside ( after having removed clothing to ensure no dna trace left ). Puts large plastic sheeting or bags on top of body so that, in the very unlikely event anyone goes into the building and looks inside the bin, they won't see the body ( yes I know the smell etc....but possibly he didn't think of that ).
When search gets too close to the pub he realises someone might go into the building and decides to move body.

Susan McClean - an astounding read if anyone has the time

Found Deceased - UK - Susan McLean, 61, U.S. tourist, Aberfeldy, Scotland, 17 May 2015

I agree, it is a wonderful read and restores faith - her friend and the WS gal were fantastic

 

[Bampot]

Who do you think killed Lindsay (as in the actual murder, not including any possible cover-up help)?
(please add your username and repost)

The Defendant:
MusicalMonkey, Bampot

The Hooded Man:


A Family Member or Close Known Associate:
Sunflower22

Combination of The Defendant and The Hooded Man:


Combination of The Defendant and Family Member or Close Known Associate:
Ann Blyth

Someone else (please state):

 

[Dcflag]

Who do you think killed Lindsay (as in the actual murder, not including any possible cover-up help)?
(please add your username and repost)

The Defendant:
MusicalMonkey, Bampot, dcflag

The Hooded Man:


A Family Member or Close Known Associate:
Sunflower22

Combination of The Defendant and The Hooded Man:


Combination of The Defendant and Family Member or Close Known Associate:
Ann Blyth

Someone else (please state):

 

[Rosegold68]

Who do you think killed Lindsay (as in the actual murder, not including any possible cover-up help)?
(please add your username and repost)

The Defendant:
MusicalMonkey, Bampot

The Hooded Man:


A Family Member or Close Known Associate:
Sunflower22
Rosegold68

Combination of The Defendant and The Hooded Man:


Combination of The Defendant and Family Member or Close Known Associate:
Ann Blyth

Someone else (please state):

 

[Mind your biscuits]

initial view does look like a carrier bag (trainers were found in a carrier bag) with a loose top/jacket in same hand

Wasn't he seen shirtless on cctv? Maybe it's his shirt. Moo.