Found Deceased UK - Lindsay Birbeck, 47, Accrington, 12 Aug 2019 *Arrest* #4

[SpursGyal]

I think the timings put the person Zoe saw, in the right place at the right time.

 

[SpursGyal]

I think the window of opportunity is very small, I do believe the person Zoe saw is the person who attacked Lindsay.

I also believe it’s the defendant, but obviously for many that’s yet to be proved.

 

[HongKongPhooey]

Thanks all for the updates. Are you guys reading my interpretation the same way?

The prosecution are using Zoe's evidence to place The Defendant (may use TD as initials for this one!) on scene. Also suggests some kind of unexplained behaviour - lurking, following - which provides an angle on intent.

The defence are querying her eyesight, different trainer descriptions and possibly the fact she was shown cctv?

 

[SpursGyal]

Thanks all for the updates. Are you guys reading my interpretation the same way?

The prosecution are using Zoe's evidence to place The Defendant (may use TD as initials for this one!) on scene. Also suggests some kind of unexplained behaviour - lurking, following - which provides an angle on intent.

The defence are querying her eyesight, different trainer descriptions and possibly the fact she was shown cctv?

Yes, I think that’s exactly what they are doing, I fully believe Zoe saw the defendant.

 

[Roostercat]

Yes, I think that’s exactly what they are doing, I fully believe Zoe saw the defendant.

Agree, maybe the defendant was fired up on adrenaline after seeing Zoe so struck quickly, also if he was a regular to the coppice he would know that his window of opportunity was becoming smaller as it would start to get busier and busier with dog walkers. Poor LB was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

 

[Doris777]

Agree, maybe the defendant was fired up on adrenaline after seeing Zoe so struck quickly, also if he was a regular to the coppice he would know that his window of opportunity was becoming smaller as it would start to get busier and busier with dog walkers. Poor LB was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I think Zoe was the intended target. If she hadn't of turned around it probably would have been her in the headlines. I think she's spooked him by turning around, that's stopped him in his tracks, but adrenaline is pumping and then Lindsay comes along and bang he attacks! If its the area I'm thinking it happened it would have been very easy to hide himself and Lindsay. If u remember from last time the dog walker who seen the coat said she heard a faint voice/noise. Could have been when he had Lindsay and was killing her. It was all in such a short time frame.!

All my option of course

 

[Jartykarate]

Already seems to be a lot more detail in this trial than the previous one. Also the right thing adding the extra charge as I believe in the original trial we where heading for an aquittal.

 

[JosieJo]

Although I do think this imaginary "killer" who asked for him to dispose of the body is nonsense ...I do think the Jury are going to struggle with this case again

The killing seemed very swift and because they cannot say for sure there was sexual assault they have no clear motive

I think they added the manslaughter hoping he would plead guilty and he hasn't which leaves them stuck again

The only small hope they have is showing intent with zoe

As already said although this mysterious killer is madness .... his reluctance to grasp at manslaughter seems odd

 

[Jartykarate]

I think Zoe was the intended target. If she hadn't of turned around it probably would have been her in the headlines. I think she's spooked him by turning around, that's stopped him in his tracks, but adrenaline is pumping and then Lindsay comes along and bang he attacks! If its the area I'm thinking it happened it would have been very easy to hide himself and Lindsay. If u remember from last time the dog walker who seen the coat said she heard a faint voice/noise. Could have been when he had Lindsay and was killing her. It was all in such a short time frame.!

All my option of course

Would it have been possible to hide a body there for five days though, In a dog walking area would dogs not have been alerted to go and investigate.

I can’t help thinking the body of poor
Lindsay may have been moved/attempted to be covered a few times before the final movement plan was carried out.

I also wonder how a scene of the crime was not found in a relatively small area, but then again the police don’t seem to have covered themselves in glory at all in this case.

 

[SpursGyal]

Would it have been possible to hide a body there for five days though, In a dog walking area would dogs not have been alerted to go and investigate.

I can’t help thinking the body of poor
Lindsay may have been moved/attempted to be covered a few times before the final movement plan was carried out.

I also wonder how a scene of the crime was not found in a relatively small area, but then again the police don’t seem to have covered themselves in glory at all in this case.

Its likely she was placed in the bin the same day she was killed. I have no doubt he moved it several times and no doubt he was keeping an eye on the planned searches that were detailed on facebook. He will have known where was searched and where was planned to be searched the next day.

 

[Doris777]

Would it have been possible to hide a body there for five days though, In a dog walking area would dogs not have been alerted to go and investigate.

I can’t help thinking the body of poor
Lindsay may have been moved/attempted to be covered a few times before the final movement plan was carried out.

I also wonder how a scene of the crime was not found in a relatively small area, but then again the police don’t seem to have covered themselves in glory at all in this case.

It was off the path. It was over grown with brambles and it led to where all the out buildings where on the pictures. It wasn't on the path through the coppice if u get what I mean. It was right where Zoe was walking. I went past it just after Lindsay was found and got such an uneasy feeling about it and me and my friend was like this is probably where it happened. I recon he's dragged her in there or pushed her in there or something like that and hid under the brambles. When night time came he's hid her somewhere in that area where all the outbuildings where. That's also where the bin was dragged over if u remember from last time. The scratch marks on the bin matches the plinths...so it's all happened around there. Police just don't know exactly where.

 

[SpursGyal]

Do we know where the plinths are in relation to the pub?

 

[Alyce]

Would it have been possible to hide a body there for five days though, In a dog walking area would dogs not have been alerted to go and investigate.

I can’t help thinking the body of poor
Lindsay may have been moved/attempted to be covered a few times before the final movement plan was carried out.

I also wonder how a scene of the crime was not found in a relatively small area, but then again the police don’t seem to have covered themselves in glory at all in this case.

We know that LB was placed inside the wheelie bin shortly after she died ( blood pooling at the head ).
If the bin was then put inside one of those outbuildings behind the pub, then I think it's quite likely that none of the dogs would have picked up a scent. Plus, I dont think anyone walking a dog would get that close to those buildings, they seem to be a bit away from the main paths.

From memory, the search of the pub area did not start until Saturday afternoon, August 17.


eta - Doris has just explained it above, far better than me - post 171

 

[Doris777]

Do we know where the plinths are in relation to the pub?

Right behind it. I'll try to sort a picture out

 

[Doris777]

Pink bit is where I think she's been dragged. The green lines are bike/path ways through the coppice. Orange bit is plinths. Where the pink area is but on the path is where Zoe the dog walker and the lad would have been. Obviously Zoe seen him there I think it is. Later dog walker and it's possible that Lindsay and the lad where where the pink bit is. All around that area can be accessed off Burnley road. It's also where the lad was seen going in and out of.

 

[SpursGyal]

She really didn't get very far at all did she...

 

[Doris777]

She really didn't get very far at all did she...

Nope. It's literally behind her house.

 

[SpursGyal]

Unfortunately, I don't think we will ever get the truth of what happened to her. Absolutely terrifying you can walk out of your house for a walk, and be murdered in broad daylight moments later.

 

[Alyce]

Pink bit is where I think she's been dragged. The green lines are bike/path ways through the coppice. Orange bit is plinths. Where the pink area is but on the path is where Zoe the dog walker and the lad would have been. Obviously Zoe seen him there I think it is. Later dog walker and it's possible that Lindsay and the lad where where the pink bit is. All around that area can be accessed off Burnley road. It's also where the lad was seen going in and out of.

Great map and explanation Doris, many thanks.

 

[Jartykarate]

We know that LB was placed inside the wheelie bin shortly after she died ( blood pooling at the head ).
If the bin was then put inside one of those outbuildings behind the pub, then I think it's quite likely that none of the dogs would have picked up a scent. Plus, I dont think anyone walking a dog would get that close to those buildings, they seem to be a bit away from the main paths.

From memory, the search of the pub area did not start until Saturday afternoon, August 17.


eta - Doris has just explained it above, far better than me - post 171

That all makes sense and is quite plausible, I had forgotten some of this detail in the intervening months. Was it established where the bin came from and when? I seem to remember it was sourced from the industrial estate near the traveller site and was relatively new but I’m not sure why that stuck in my mind. I need to refresh from the previous thread posts from the original trial.