Found Deceased UK - Lindsay Birbeck, 47, Accrington, 12 Aug 2019 *Arrest* #4

[Roostercat]

It's just a real bad shot of her if that's the case. Plenty people agree it doesn't look feminine.. that's all my point is

Terrible shot of her. I don't think these were in circulation for very long, probably because they realised they were not great plus they then released the Cctv from Burnley Road which was much clearer and became their go to shot of her along with the most photo taken from the school where she worked.

 

[SpursGyal]

I think we have to remember that posed photos and CCTV will always look very different... CCTV is notoriously bad, it’s often said we can take high quality photos on moving rollercoasters but the majority of police appeal CCTV is bad at best.

I look very different in a photo I have posed for, than when I nip to Morrison’s with no make up and my hair not done.... the mask wearing helps with no make up days now tho lol.

 

[Emmalt]

I'm interested to know if you don't think the image looks feminine, how it makes you view this case and what you feel may have happened to JB?

I have said previously what I think has happened so i would rather not go down the same route again as it's pointless and gets quite out of hand and argumentative. I'm just here for other people's views and I am glad to know I'm not alone in my thoughts

 

[Emmalt]

I remember one of the first photos released of Lindsay was with her hair short and no fringe with a drink in hand. Her clothing she was supposedly wearing changed also. So I think due to this it threw a spanner in the works to start with

 

[Becky53]

I’d never seen those shots from flyers until now - only the stills of her walking on Burnley Rd on the day. CCTV gets some bad rep I think when people say it’s an invasion of their privacy - I see it as invaluable in this day and age. Defendant could still be walking the streets “unsupervised” if it didn’t exist.

And he wandered around a lot “unsupervised”.

 

[SpursGyal]

This is also a newly released photo I believe. I hadn’t seen this picture of her until this trial.

Teen 'killed woman and moved body in wheelie bin'

 

[Roostercat]

This is also a newly released photo I believe. I hadn’t seen this picture of her until this trial.

Teen 'killed woman and moved body in wheelie bin'

Yeah, I thought the same. I think she looks younger in this photo, so possibly an old one.

 

[Becky53]

I look very different in a photo I have posed for, than when I nip to Morrison’s with no make up and my hair not done.... the mask wearing helps with no make up days now tho lol.

Me being female of a certain age I’ve now decided to stop plucking a stray dark hair in the moustache region as I can hide it with a mask - I’m seeing how long I can grow it before other half notices...

 

[Alyce]

This is also a newly released photo I believe. I hadn’t seen this picture of her until this trial.

Teen 'killed woman and moved body in wheelie bin'

I hadn't seen this one either before the new trial - I think it's a really lovely one of her

 

[Emmalt]

This is also a newly released photo I believe. I hadn’t seen this picture of her until this trial.

Teen 'killed woman and moved body in wheelie bin'

Me being female of a certain age I’ve now decided to stop plucking a stray dark hair in the moustache region as I can hide it with a mask - I’m seeing how long I can grow it before other half notices...

This made me giggle lol.. I had one I didn't even know about on my chin area.. my lovely teenager pointed it out to me

 

[Becky53]

Going back to the teachers statements and the fact that defendant didn’t have the best attendance - I wonder how recently they taught him. I’d assume the years he attended would be given to the jury.

 

[Legally Bland]

Going back to the teachers statements and the fact that defendant didn’t have the best attendance - I wonder how recently they taught him. I’d assume the years he attended would be given to the jury.

Good point, I never thought about it like that, I was assuming it was the odd day(s) not years. Thinking back, it sounded like he was a current pupil to me.

 

[Emmalt]

Yes its not been confirmed but you would think more recently.. maybe he left last year.. end of year 11 as normal.. Although some people say this type of child(ren) don't go to secondary school.. (I am not sure how to word that correctly without giving anything away) so i am honestly unsure
They haven't been able to name the school or teachers so it's impossible to know for sure.

Going back to the teachers statements and the fact that defendant didn’t have the best attendance - I wonder how recently they taught him. I’d assume the years he attended would be given to the jury.

 

[Becky53]

It was just with the headteacher who I believe said she wasn’t 100 % sure it was defendant on CCTV footage when originally shown it by another teacher who was sure and advised them to report it.

 

[Whitehall 1212]

Going back to the teachers statements and the fact that defendant didn’t have the best attendance - I wonder how recently they taught him. I’d assume the years he attended would be given to the jury.

Just this crossed my mind on Thurday, when the teachers gave evidence.

I suspect that the dates they taught/supervised him would have formed part of their evidence but it could not be reported by the press as it could help to identify the defendant and the witnesses.

I feel it is extremely relevant to the evidence they gave.

If the defendant was taken out of mainstream schooling at fourteen for example, then he is likely to be a very different individual now than he was last August, at sixteen years of age.

If something along these lines was the case then it creates some doubt regarding the validity of their evidence now.

 

[Becky53]

If the defendant was taken out of mainstream schooling at fourteen for example, then he is likely to be a very different individual now than he was last August, at sixteen years of age.

If something along these lines was the case then it creates some doubt regarding the validity of their evidence now.

This is what I was thinking...

 

[MusicalMonkey]

I haven't really been here since the original farce of a trial and then the 'Covid thing'.

Last time it was pretty much: The defendant kills woman and Gipmafia help cover his tracks meanwhile hot-shot solicitor makes up and bull story whilst defendant turns into a mute.

Has anything changed? Or is it all a bit Groundhog Day but without the Murray?

Perhaps The Hooded Claw died of Covid-19?

 

[Whitehall 1212]

I haven't really been here since the original farce of a trial and then the 'Covid thing'.

Last time it was pretty much: The defendant kills woman and Gipmafia help cover his tracks meanwhile hot-shot solicitor makes up and bull story whilst defendant turns into a mute.

Has anything changed? Did The Hooded Claw die of Covid-19?

Hi MM,

The key difference reported is that he has also been charged with manslaughter and an assistance offence, I think assisting an offender/preventing a lawful burial or similar. He has pleaded not guilty to manslaughter but guilty to the assistance offence, which does carry a maximum sentence of life imprisonment but that would not be the case here.

The prosecution should conclude by Monday lunchtime.

It's been all the same evidence as before, although the Court reporting has been more informative about the evidence being presented.

The evidence is very much circumstantial but collectively quite damning if one doesn't genuinely believe the 'mystery man....get rid of a body for me' defence.

The defence case is what we are all waiting for as they didn't get beyond the end of the prosecution evidence last time.

I hope that helps

 

[Emmalt]

Hi MM,

The key difference reported is that he has also been charged with manslaughter and an assistance offence, I think assisting an offender/preventing a lawful burial or similar. He has pleaded not guilty to manslaughter but guilty to the assistance offence, which does carry a maximum sentence of life imprisonment but that would not be the case here.

The prosecution should conclude by Monday lunchtime.

It's been all the same evidence as before, although the Court reporting has been more informative about the evidence being presented.

The evidence is very much circumstantial but collectively quite damning if you don't genuinely believe the mystery man defence.

The defence case is what we are all waiting for as they didn't get beyond the end of the prosecution evidence last time.

I hope that helps

Why would he not get life imprisonment for assisting an offender? He has physically been able to deal with a rotting corpse.. he deserves life imprisonment for that alone.. is it Because of his age/disability? Or both? Minus time served?

Life imprisonment isn't how it should be anyway.. apart from sickness and ill health who doesnt live to 20/25? I don't understand using the term 'life' if the perps aren't locked up for the whole of their lives.. it's so wrong

 

[Whitehall 1212]

Why would he not get life imprisonment for assisting an offender? He has physically been able to deal with a rotting corpse.. he deserves life imprisonment for that alone.. is it Because of his age/disability? Or both? Minus time served?

Life imprisonment isn't how it should be anyway.. apart from sickness and ill health who doesnt live to 20/25? I don't understand using the term 'life' if the perps aren't locked up for the whole of their lives.. it's so wrong

Prevention of the lawful and decent burial of a dead body is an offence under Common Law and carries a maximum life sentence.

The Sentencing Guidelines will be used by the Judge to help determine the sentence for this offence. The Judge will take into account the aggravating and mitigating factors to determine the length of sentence. He will get a 25% deduction off the calculated sentence for his early guilty plea.

If he is found guilty of either murder or manslaughter then his sentence for preventing the lawful burial will no doubt run concurrently with his sentence for the substantive offence.

Life orders are only given in the most egregious of cases as identified in the Sentencing Guidlines.

Prison is for the protection of the public but also for the reform of the offender. Without the chance of parole their is little or no motivation to reform, express remorse and to become a positive contributor to society.

Therefore, only in the most serious instances of the most serious offences like murder will a life order, without any chance of parole, be handed down e.g. Ian Huntley, Rose West, Mark Bridger.

Life orders can only be given to those who are over 21 at the time of the offence.