Found Deceased UK - Lindsay Birbeck, 47, Accrington, 12 Aug 2019 *Arrest* #4

[accylocal]

Thank you for this. I would agree that he acted alone, I hadn’t however factored in him hiding his rucksack. That’s a very scary thought that he could have planned this in so much detail.

Do you really think she looks 15st tho? She looks quite svelte in the CCTV clip. I would probably put her around 12.

Not that I have stepped on a scale for along time. Especially not during lockdown

The facts are is that he had all the equipment to conceal and try and dismember a body. The fact that in a very small timescale he crossed the road at whittakers pub, went down the side of the cemetery which is on a slope, walked down towards that way which leads you across a small railway bridge and into the forest and then walked back up in such a short time shows you the bag was around that area. He couldnt of gone any further than that timescale. It make senses as he knows that area and its easy to hide a bag. He couldn't of hidden it on the road as people had cctv and he would of been spotted, he couldn't of hidden it in the cemetery as they also had cctv so must of been somewhere in the wooded area. He was captured on cctv going through the brambles behind a company called isofirm i think it was called. Not sure what time that was but if it was between the times of when he left Lindsay and came back with a bag then he would of hidden it around that wooded area.

So to conclude all that he has certainly planned it. What 16 year old buys very good quality plastic sheeting to wrap a body if its not planned. A bag with gloves, a saw etc hes planned what to do and hes planned how hes going to deal with it. In my eyes hes planned the bin also as in a strange way its not the worst idea. In this area alot of kids carry and mess around with bins moving either stolen goods etc.

Looking at Lindsay on photos she looks a well built woman. Shes fit and healthy but i think she is also 6ft or if not more. I would say around 14 to 15 stone. Even myself i would struggle especially bringing it down from the coppice.

 

[Genny]

Hi, I just signed up, but have been following the case on here and in the Lancs evening Telegraph since LB went missing. I live close to where she was murdered so this case was/is very disturbing to me. Regarding the previous sexual assault reported here:

Just to add what i have put above. Less than 2 years ago there was a sexual assault behind where i live which is the forest leading to the cemetery , where the path is that leads to the caravan site and the industrial site where the defendant was seen on cctv and also where the defendant will have collected the bag and bin he was seen with going to the coppice. Now, after looking at this the last couple of days could this be the defendant? (See link and pictures). The defendant especially on the pictures from the cctv looks older than he actually is and we have also realised through the trial he is alot stronger than he looks. The pictures for me look very similar and he is described as with a parting in his hair what he has and also seems the correct height. The only thing which seems wrong is she described him as blonde. Did she just get the hair colour wrong? However, since his name came out around Accrington , pictures starting circulating and i am sure i saw a picture of him with blonde hair. Did he dye it after being worried about being caught? It just makes me wonder if it was him and this could of been part of his mind and why he may of done what he has done to Lindsay? Could this be him and he could of been sexually motivated?

I really dont know but the picture especially from an evofit looks like him, the location makes sense and other than the hair which i have explained it could be him. Obviously its speculation but it just came to me the other day. The man was never caught.

This is the link for the story... Police issue Evofit after dog walker sexually assaulted in Accrington

I recall another assault on a ten year old girl on the canal towpath in Clayton-le-Moors (a few minutes from Whinney Hill Road) in 2017. the report and e-fit is here: Detectives release e-fit of man accused of groping 10-year-old girl

Now I realize that its only speculation that this might be the defendant, and that the girl described her attacker as 18-20 yrs old but to a ten year old people often appear much older than they are. As far as I'm aware this person was never caught. Anyway - we will never know if this was the defendant or not, but my feeling is, that if a person commits murder of a stranger, then it is highly unlikely to be their first offence.

 

[Alyce]

The facts are is that he had all the equipment to conceal and try and dismember a body. The fact that in a very small timescale he crossed the road at whittakers pub, went down the side of the cemetery which is on a slope, walked down towards that way which leads you across a small railway bridge and into the forest and then walked back up in such a short time shows you the bag was around that area. He couldnt of gone any further than that timescale. It make senses as he knows that area and its easy to hide a bag. He couldn't of hidden it on the road as people had cctv and he would of been spotted, he couldn't of hidden it in the cemetery as they also had cctv so must of been somewhere in the wooded area. He was captured on cctv going through the brambles behind a company called isofirm i think it was called. Not sure what time that was but if it was between the times of when he left Lindsay and came back with a bag then he would of hidden it around that wooded area.

So to conclude all that he has certainly planned it. What 16 year old buys very good quality plastic sheeting to wrap a body if its not planned. A bag with gloves, a saw etc hes planned what to do and hes planned how hes going to deal with it. In my eyes hes planned the bin also as in a strange way its not the worst idea. In this area alot of kids carry and mess around with bins moving either stolen goods etc.

Looking at Lindsay on photos she looks a well built woman. Shes fit and healthy but i think she is also 6ft or if not more. I would say around 14 to 15 stone. Even myself i would struggle especially bringing it down from the coppice.

Here's the timings................

At 6.19pm the defendant was seen on CCTV crossing over Burnley Road from the Whitakers Arms side with his hood up, his tracksuit top partially unzipped and appeared to have 'wet knees'.

Around 30 minutes later he was then seen emerging from brambles at the rear of Isothane on Newhouse Road and walking up Whitewell Road with a black rucksack on his back.

Mr McLachlan said he was heading back to the location ‘where he left Lindsay’s body’.

He told the jury: “He must have had something in his rucksack to assist him in some way in relation to Lindsay Birbeck’s body.”

Fifty minutes later the defendant was then seen emerging from the direction of the grassed area on Burnley Road and still had the rucksack with him. He entered Accrington Cemetery before exiting through a side gate onto Whitewell Road in the direction of home.



Lindsay Birbeck murder retrial: Guilty plea, final movements and the hooded man

 

[Officer Dibble]

Just to add what i have put above. Less than 2 years ago there was a sexual assault behind where i live which is the forest leading to the cemetery , where the path is that leads to the caravan site and the industrial site where the defendant was seen on cctv and also where the defendant will have collected the bag and bin he was seen with going to the coppice. Now, after looking at this the last couple of days could this be the defendant? (See link and pictures). The defendant especially on the pictures from the cctv looks older than he actually is and we have also realised through the trial he is alot stronger than he looks. The pictures for me look very similar and he is described as with a parting in his hair what he has and also seems the correct height. The only thing which seems wrong is she described him as blonde. Did she just get the hair colour wrong? However, since his name came out around Accrington , pictures starting circulating and i am sure i saw a picture of him with blonde hair. Did he dye it after being worried about being caught? It just makes me wonder if it was him and this could of been part of his mind and why he may of done what he has done to Lindsay? Could this be him and he could of been sexually motivated?

I really dont know but the picture especially from an evofit looks like him, the location makes sense and other than the hair which i have explained it could be him. Obviously its speculation but it just came to me the other day. The man was never caught.

Thanks for this. I agree this photofit looks very similar indeed.

This is the link for the story... Police issue Evofit after dog walker sexually assaulted in Accrington

 

[Alyce]

2017 e-fit

2018 Evofit

 

[Officer Dibble]

Hi, I just signed up, but have been following the case on here and in the Lancs evening Telegraph since LB went missing. I live close to where she was murdered so this case was/is very disturbing to me. Regarding the previous sexual assault reported here:



I recall another assault on a ten year old girl on the canal towpath in Clayton-le-Moors (a few minutes from Whinney Hill Road) in 2017. the report and e-fit is here: Detectives release e-fit of man accused of groping 10-year-old girl

Now I realize that its only speculation that this might be the defendant, and that the girl described her attacker as 18-20 yrs old but to a ten year old people often appear much older than they are. As far as I'm aware this person was never caught. Anyway - we will never know if this was the defendant or not, but my feeling is, that if a person commits murder of a stranger, then it is highly unlikely to be their first offence.

Could also be him too. JMO.

 

[Jartykarate]

Here's the timings................

At 6.19pm the defendant was seen on CCTV crossing over Burnley Road from the Whitakers Arms side with his hood up, his tracksuit top partially unzipped and appeared to have 'wet knees'.

Around 30 minutes later he was then seen emerging from brambles at the rear of Isothane on Newhouse Road and walking up Whitewell Road with a black rucksack on his back.

Mr McLachlan said he was heading back to the location ‘where he left Lindsay’s body’.

He told the jury: “He must have had something in his rucksack to assist him in some way in relation to Lindsay Birbeck’s body.”

Fifty minutes later the defendant was then seen emerging from the direction of the grassed area on Burnley Road and still had the rucksack with him. He entered Accrington Cemetery before exiting through a side gate onto Whitewell Road in the direction of home.



Lindsay Birbeck murder retrial: Guilty plea, final movements and the hooded man

Isothane only looks about 100 yards from the caravan site, I think it is more likely he went back to the site to pick up the bag and equipment, I’m not convinced this was premeditated unless Lindsay was targeted, it looks more like an opportunistic attack. Although I agree this is unlikely to have been the first attack by the perpetrator.

 

[accylocal]

Thank you for this. I would agree that he acted alone, I hadn’t however factored in him hiding his rucksack. That’s a very scary thought that he could have planned this in so much detail.

Do you really think she looks 15st tho? She looks quite svelte in the CCTV clip. I would probably put her around 12.

Not that I have stepped on a scale for along time. Especially not during lockdown

The facts are is that he had all the equipment to conceal and try and dismember a body. The fact that in a very small timescale he crossed the road at whittakers pub, went down the side of the cemetery which is on a slope, walked down towards that way which leads you across a small railway bridge and into the forest and then walked back up in such a short time shows you the bag was around that area. He couldnt of gone any further than that timescale. It make senses as he knows that area and its easy to hide a bag. He couldn't of hidden it on the road as people had cctv and he would of been spotted, he couldn't of hidden it in the cemetery as they also had cctv so must of been somewhere in the wooded area. He was captured on cctv going through the brambles behind a company called isofirm i think it was called. Not sure what time that was but if it was between the times of when he left Lindsay and came back with a bag then he would of hidden it around that wooded area.

So to conclude all that he has certainly planned it. What 16 year old buys very good quality plastic sheeting to wrap a body if its not planned. A bag with gloves, a saw etc hes planned what to do and hes planned how hes going to deal with it. In my eyes hes planned the bin also as in a strange way its not the worst idea. In this area alot of kids carry and mess around with bins moving either stolen goods etc.

Looking at Lindsay on photos she looks a well built woman. Shes fit and healthy but i think she is also 6ft or if not more. I would say around 14 to 15 stone. Even myself i would struggle especially bringing it down from the coppice.

Here's the timings................

At 6.19pm the defendant was seen on CCTV crossing over Burnley Road from the Whitakers Arms side with his hood up, his tracksuit top partially unzipped and appeared to have 'wet knees'.

Around 30 minutes later he was then seen emerging from brambles at the rear of Isothane on Newhouse Road and walking up Whitewell Road with a black rucksack on his back.

Mr McLachlan said he was heading back to the location ‘where he left Lindsay’s body’.

He told the jury: “He must have had something in his rucksack to assist him in some way in relation to Lindsay Birbeck’s body.”

Fifty minutes later the defendant was then seen emerging from the direction of the grassed area on Burnley Road and still had the rucksack with him. He entered Accrington Cemetery before exiting through a side gate onto Whitewell Road in the direction of home.



Lindsay Birbeck murder retrial: Guilty plea, final movements and the hooded man

30 minutes sounds about right. Walk 15 minutes down from whitakers arms to the woods, through the brambles to collect the bag and then walk back up. Sounds like the right amount of time. You can do that much quicker especially when the walk back up is uphill. He obviously had the bag ready to do what he needed to do.

 

[accylocal]

2017 e-fit

2018 Evofit

I just think in 2017 he might of been a bit too young but it could well be. He could of walked down whinney hill road, cut down the side streets and onto the canal exactly where that girl was assaulted so it does make sense. This could all be the build up before he tried it on Lindsay and had the bag ready incase he had to murder her or maybe he wanted to.

 

[accylocal]

Isothane only looks about 100 yards from the caravan site, I think it is more likely he went back to the site to pick up the bag and equipment, I’m not convinced this was premeditated unless Lindsay was targeted, it looks more like an opportunistic attack. Although I agree this is unlikely to have been the first attack by the perpetrator.

Sorry but what 16 year old goes back to his home and in the short space of time gets a bag with all the tools to conceal a body that good a sniffer dog didnt even pick up the scent? What 16 year old randomly has to hand plastic sheeting etc? He knew what he was doing and he knew how to wrap a body. He was also that sick in the head he tried sawing her leg off. This is not a opportunist , this is a man who knew what he wanted to do and was ready to do it.

 

[Legally Bland]

I meant to ask this earlier, but for any locals is this cardiac hill?



خرائط ‪Google‬‏‏

 

[accylocal]

I meant to ask this earlier, but for any locals is this cardiac hill?

View attachment 259163

خرائط ‪Google‬‏‏

And where it says accrington that is where hes changed direction and gone down left towards whittakers and that is where i think unfortunately he has faced Lindsay.

 

[accylocal]

Sorry but what 16 year old goes back to his home and in the short space of time gets a bag with all the tools to conceal a body that good a sniffer dog didnt even pick up the scent? What 16 year old randomly has to hand plastic sheeting etc? He knew what he was doing and he knew how to wrap a body. He was also that sick in the head he tried sawing her leg off. This is not a opportunist , this is a man who knew what he wanted to do and was ready to do it.

Just to add this boy has to look a dying Lindsay in the eyes, conceal a dead body, move a dead body and bury a dead body after days of decomposition. This is not a normal 16 year old.

 

[Jartykarate]

Just to add this boy has to look a dying Lindsay in the eyes, conceal a dead body, move a dead body and bury a dead body after days of decomposition. This is not a normal 16 year old.

I don’t think there is any argument with that.

I am just expressing an opinion that I don’t believe this was premeditated, is there any evidence that the saw was used, or the body wrapped on the day of the attack?

 

[JosieJo]

I have no idea how this will go
Presumably the Jury will have a much better idea than us but it seems difficult
The defendant does not have to prove his version of events and its impossible for the prosecution to show there was no other person on the coppice at the time
I do not think they have proven beyond reasonable doubt their case but who knows

 

[SpursGyal]

Just to add this boy has to look a dying Lindsay in the eyes, conceal a dead body, move a dead body and bury a dead body after days of decomposition. This is not a normal 16 year old.

Agree with this. 100x over. Attempting to Dismember too.

 

[JosieJo]

Just to add this boy has to look a dying Lindsay in the eyes, conceal a dead body, move a dead body and bury a dead body after days of decomposition. This is not a normal 16 year old.

Just to say .. in theory we do not know if he did look a dying lindsay in the eyes ...though of course still horrific either way

 

[JosieJo]

Imo the attempt at dismemberment was purely an idea he had to make disposal easier
It appears he stopped without continually trying.. to play devils advocate...that could as easily shown he stopped because he couldn't bring himself to do it as it does stopping as it was more difficult than it looked

 

[Whitehall 1212]

The facts are is that he had all the equipment to conceal and try and dismember a body. The fact that in a very small timescale he crossed the road at whittakers pub, went down the side of the cemetery which is on a slope, walked down towards that way which leads you across a small railway bridge and into the forest and then walked back up in such a short time shows you the bag was around that area. He couldnt of gone any further than that timescale. It make senses as he knows that area and its easy to hide a bag. He couldn't of hidden it on the road as people had cctv and he would of been spotted, he couldn't of hidden it in the cemetery as they also had cctv so must of been somewhere in the wooded area. He was captured on cctv going through the brambles behind a company called isofirm i think it was called. Not sure what time that was but if it was between the times of when he left Lindsay and came back with a bag then he would of hidden it around that wooded area.

So to conclude all that he has certainly planned it. What 16 year old buys very good quality plastic sheeting to wrap a body if its not planned. A bag with gloves, a saw etc hes planned what to do and hes planned how hes going to deal with it. In my eyes hes planned the bin also as in a strange way its not the worst idea. In this area alot of kids carry and mess around with bins moving either stolen goods etc.

Looking at Lindsay on photos she looks a well built woman. Shes fit and healthy but i think she is also 6ft or if not more. I would say around 14 to 15 stone. Even myself i would struggle especially bringing it down from the coppice.


30 minutes sounds about right. Walk 15 minutes down from whitakers arms to the woods, through the brambles to collect the bag and then walk back up. Sounds like the right amount of time. You can do that much quicker especially when the walk back up is uphill. He obviously had the bag ready to do what he needed to do.

You make some very good points and I agree that the apparent resourcefulness in which he dealt with the body and quickly acquired the necessary equipment does lend itself to a sense of premeditation.

Personally, I think that it is unlikely in one so young. He would probably have ready access to tools and plastic sheeting from the travellers site and I think he made some elementary errors, which he probably would not have done with considered premeditation.

I think he is probably extremely focussed on things that grab his attention and worryingly, maybe stalking and assaulting females is his fixation.

I also think he is very good at thinking on his feet, has very little empathy and no fear of being caught.

There was a fabulous post on the LB thread a while back from someone with professional experience of Autism Spectrum Disorders. The OP articulated the thought process as being like a manual by which many ASD individuals operate and that neuro-typical individuals would not figure it out as it was beyond their way of reasoning.

I could never do the incredible post justice so I will try and find it, copy and repost, if that is allowed.

 

[HongKongPhooey]

Hi, I just signed up, but have been following the case on here and in the Lancs evening Telegraph since LB went missing. I live close to where she was murdered so this case was/is very disturbing to me. Regarding the previous sexual assault reported here:



I recall another assault on a ten year old girl on the canal towpath in Clayton-le-Moors (a few minutes from Whinney Hill Road) in 2017. the report and e-fit is here: Detectives release e-fit of man accused of groping 10-year-old girl

Now I realize that its only speculation that this might be the defendant, and that the girl described her attacker as 18-20 yrs old but to a ten year old people often appear much older than they are. As far as I'm aware this person was never caught. Anyway - we will never know if this was the defendant or not, but my feeling is, that if a person commits murder of a stranger, then it is highly unlikely to be their first offence.

Oh wow, that efit