Found Deceased UK - Lindsay Birbeck, 47, Accrington, 12 Aug 2019 *Arrest*

[chimpface]

If the full 96 hours is granted then an easy way to process it is 96 hours is 4 days so arrested Tuesday evening plus 4 so Saturday evening is the latest he can be held and at that point he will either need to be charged or release without charge.

Or released under investigation? Bailed?

 

[CharlestonGal]

I agree
The smell of a decomposing dead body is unlike any other smell that you have ever experienced. It’s truly one of those smells that you never get used to and is so toxic and such a horrific attack on your sense of smell. You never forget it and even if wrapped in material and with the lid bouncing up and down slightly, the smell will emanate plus ( I APOLOGISE FOR THE GRAPHIC TEXT I AM ABOUT TO POST) when a body is decomposing and is dead for this amount of time being suggested here by the time he’s transporting the wheelie bin in the CCTV , due to the process that the body goes through and due to the heat, there will be flies, lots of flies and maggots, lots of maggots and even jumping maggots . I will leave it there but it’s all from personal experience. MOO

Thank you. What if the body were very well wrapped and taped inside of several sheets of thick plastic? Would that contain the odor and minimize the insect activity?

ETA: This would also explain why Lindsay's body was initially referred to as an "unidentified object" and why police were seen removing a "bag" from the scene.

 

[WiseOwl]

It’s difficult to say without knowing the finer details of the investigation.
It’s not as easy as people believe to manually strangle a person. Lindsay was 5’11 and looks to be healthy and strong so for someone to kill her in that way, it will take a huge amount of strength plus I would suspect she will be fighting back to save herself and once the body releases the cortisol for fight or flight response and she is full of adrenaline then she will be unbelievably strong in fighting back. Conversely , if the suspect is full of adrenaline then he too will become very strong for a short time. So who knows . The suspect could be the person who murdered LB or he could be merely moving her body either with or without knowledge of what’s in the bin ( however I refer to my previous post that I find it impossible that he would not be able to smell the decomposing body as he wheels the blue bin along if in fact LB is inside it ). Furthermore, I would suspect that whoever strangled LB, would have injuries and scratches in plentiful supply as she would have fought back, unless rendered unconscious before strangulation).

As you say it's difficult to know exactly what happened until the police release more details.

I agree it would be difficult to strangle someone of Lindsay's size but one possibility is a ligature around the neck - maybe she was taken by surprise from behind this way, rendered unconscious by tightening the ligature and finally strangled?

As for the body smelling it would depend exactly on when Lindsay died. There has been no confirmation of the time/date of her death from the police, she might have been held somewhere on the 12th and killed a few days later or perhaps killed on the 12th but her body dismembered, stored in a freezer for a few days and then transported in the bin on the 17th - there would be no smell if this happened.

A host of scenarios are possible until there is more information released.

 

[SpursGyal]

I find it hard to imagine he would look so casual walking the bin down the street with a bin with such a distinctive smell.Would flies not be swarming around him?
Any passer by could have smelt it.
perhaps he has been used as a decoy.

We don't know when she died, Although i IMO i think she probably died very soon after her last sighting.

Was she in the bin at this point? or could he have been taking the bin somewhere before her body was put in? That smell would have been very memorable for anyone walking past him?

 

[CharlestonGal]

"A 16-year-old boy who has been arrested on suspicion of murder after the death of Lindsay Birbeck remains in custody.

Lancashire Constabulary has confirmed to LancsLive yesterday (August 29) that his custody period has been extended.

Detectives have now confirmed that they have until 8.50pm on Saturday (August 31) to hold the suspect.

At that point, police will need to either charge or release the suspect, as that will 96 hours since the initial arrest on Tuesday (August 31)."

How long police have to question Lindsay Birbeck murder suspect

 

[Chellbu]

(Been absent from this forum for a while as I forgot my password but have been following this case as it’s fairly local to me).

My thoughts are :-

There was not a body in the bin (for reasons as stated above by a previous poster).

Following on from the above, I think the initial “object” that lead to the discover of the body is what was in the bin (did the dog walker open the bin to dispose of dog muck?).

The person currently in custody is not the perp, and I think the police know this. I’m wondering if they are being kept in custody whilst the police are, behind the sciences, looking at someone else.

I can imagine a scenario where the person in custody, somehow, accidentally got caught up in this. I can see a much older person, threatening them with a “who would believe you, I’m xxxx”. This would be additionally persuasive if the perp has an influential role in the community for example.

All MOO. I would honestly be shocked to the core if the 16 year old is found guilty of this.

 

[SpursGyal]

So around 2 Hours from releasing the CCTV to arrest? Thats quick.

 

[CharlestonGal]

(Been absent from this forum for a while as I forgot my password but have been following this case as it’s fairly local to me).

My thoughts are :-

There was not a body in the bin (for reasons as stated above by a previous poster).

Following on from the above, I think the initial “object” that lead to the discover of the body is what was in the bin (did the dog walker open the bin to dispose of dog muck?).

The person currently in custody is not the perp, and I think the police know this. I’m wondering if they are being kept in custody whilst the police are, behind the sciences, looking at someone else.

I can imagine a scenario where the person in custody, somehow, accidentally got caught up in this. I can see a much older person, threatening them with a “who would believe you, I’m xxxx”. This would be additionally persuasive if the perp has an influential role in the community for example.

All MOO. I would honestly be shocked to the core if the 16 year old is found guilty of this.

I'm not shocked a 16 y/o could have done this. I've been looking at homicide statistics for England and Wales and these are some interesting facts from 2018:

- One-third (33%) of convicted male suspects were aged between 16 and 24 years old, with 26% being 25 to 34 years old and 21% being 35 to 44 years old.

- Female victims were most likely to be killed in or around a house or dwelling or residential home (77%, 174 offences for year ending March 2018). This compares with 40% of male homicides (200 offences). Around a third (32%) of male homicides took place in a street, path or alleyway (161 offences) compared with only 7% of female homicides (16 offences).

- A third (32%) of homicide suspects were reported by the police to have been under the influence of alcohol and/or drugs at the time of the homicide

- The latest figures show just over half (51%, 373 offences) of all homicide cases resulted from a quarrel, a revenge attack or a loss of temper.

Homicide in England and Wales - Office for National Statistics

 

[Sarahlou]

I wouldn't be shocked at all if the 16 yr old did this either. I know some people keep hinting at someone else but I don't see that being the case.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Lindsay Birbeck murder investigation: Police have until Saturday to hold suspect

 

[SpursGyal]

I'm not shocked a 16 y/o could have done this. I've been looking at homicide statistics for England and Wales and these are some interesting facts from 2018:

- One-third (33%) of convicted male suspects were aged between 16 and 24 years old, with 26% being 25 to 34 years old and 21% being 35 to 44 years old.

- Female victims were most likely to be killed in or around a house or dwelling or residential home (77%, 174 offences for year ending March 2018). This compares with 40% of male homicides (200 offences). Around a third (32%) of male homicides took place in a street, path or alleyway (161 offences) compared with only 7% of female homicides (16 offences).

- A third (32%) of homicide suspects were reported by the police to have been under the influence of alcohol and/or drugs at the time of the homicide

- The latest figures show just over half (51%, 373 offences) of all homicide cases resulted from a quarrel, a revenge attack or a loss of temper.

Homicide in England and Wales - Office for National Statistics

While it's not shocking for a 16 to commit murder now sadly, especially with the rise of knife crime. I do think it would be extremely rare for a 16 year old to commit a random attack with this cause of death, especially when you consider initial reports of a found 'object'

 

[CharlestonGal]

Also interesting:

- A third of women were killed by their partner or ex-partner1 (33%, 63 homicides) in the year ending March 2018.

Homicide in England and Wales - Office for National Statistics

So....67% of the time, the partner or ex DIDN'T do it.

 

[SpursGyal]

I wouldn't be shocked at all if the 16 yr old did this either. I know some people keep hinting at someone else but I don't see that being the case.

If he has, I do not think he can have acted alone.

 

[WiseOwl]

I do not believe that there was a body in the bin on the footage from 17 August. I think the footage was made public just to show the wheelie bin guy and nothing to do with the contents of the bin.

Lindsay's body was found a whole week later on 24 August and i cannot see how it would take that long for it to be discovered. It was reported that the police were searching the cemetery from the week commencing 19 August so how could they have missed it? I think the body was taken there some time on Saturday 24 August as i believe the police wasn't searching the cemetery over that weekend, so whoever placed it there must have known this.

It would be interesting to know if wheelie bin guy shows up on any footage from 24 August - perhaps for now the police are keeping that for themselves.

All MOO of course!

 

[CharlestonGal]

I do not believe that there was a body in the bin on the footage from 17 August. I think the footage was made public just to show the wheelie bin guy and nothing to do with the contents of the bin.

Lindsay's body was found a whole week later on 24 August and i cannot see how it would take that long for it to be discovered. It was reported that the police were searching the cemetery from the week commencing 19 August so how could they have missed it? I think the body was taken there some time on Saturday 24 August as i believe the police wasn't searching the cemetery over that weekend, so whoever placed it there must have known this.

It would be interesting to know if wheelie bin guy shows up on any footage from 24 August - perhaps for now the police are keeping that for themselves.

All MOO of course!

I don't think the body was in the bin either. Perhaps clothing/shoes/etc? If the body was in the bin, why not just leave it in there when the bin was abandoned? Why wheel to the cemetery, take the body out of the bin, and leave the bin there?

 

[oviedo]

I do not believe that there was a body in the bin on the footage from 17 August. I think the footage was made public just to show the wheelie bin guy and nothing to do with the contents of the bin.

Lindsay's body was found a whole week later on 24 August and i cannot see how it would take that long for it to be discovered. It was reported that the police were searching the cemetery from the week commencing 19 August so how could they have missed it? I think the body was taken there some time on Saturday 24 August as i believe the police wasn't searching the cemetery over that weekend, so whoever placed it there must have known this.

It would be interesting to know if wheelie bin guy shows up on any footage from 24 August - perhaps for now the police are keeping that for themselves.

All MOO of course!

All compelling opinions and I think you may be spot on JMO

 

[WiseOwl]

I don't think the body was in the bin either. Perhaps clothing/shoes/etc? If the body was in the bin, why not just leave it in there when the bin was abandoned? Why wheel to the cemetery, take the body out of the bin, and leave the bin there?

Exactly - it doesn't make any sense to do that.

I keep thinking 'why the cemetery - why place the body there?' To torment the police? The family? Or was it put there due to someone's naivety?

 

[CharlestonGal]

Exactly - it doesn't make any sense to do that.

I keep thinking 'why the cemetery - why place the body there?' To torment the police? The family? Or was it put there due to someone's naivety?

Perhaps it's someone who visits the cemetery a lot? It is said that perpetrators tend to dispose of bodies in places they know well. IMO

 

[SpursGyal]

Exactly - it doesn't make any sense to do that.

I keep thinking 'why the cemetery - why place the body there?' To torment the police? The family? Or was it put there due to someone's naivety?

The Cemetery looks like it can be accessed a few ways, maybe they thought that because it had already been searched, and that it could be easy to enter undetected it would be a safe place?

 

[Dcflag]

I do not believe that there was a body in the bin on the footage from 17 August. I think the footage was made public just to show the wheelie bin guy and nothing to do with the contents of the bin.

Lindsay's body was found a whole week later on 24 August and i cannot see how it would take that long for it to be discovered. It was reported that the police were searching the cemetery from the week commencing 19 August so how could they have missed it? I think the body was taken there some time on Saturday 24 August as i believe the police wasn't searching the cemetery over that weekend, so whoever placed it there must have known this.

It would be interesting to know if wheelie bin guy shows up on any footage from 24 August - perhaps for now the police are keeping that for themselves.

All MOO of course!

I'm beginning to lean this way also <modsnip>

But that leads us to to something more interesting, was he connected to the found bin in the cemetary? And if he was, why bother trying to identify him through CCTV? Because they would already know who he is. Unless the aim is to find witnesses who did see him using the bin with her inside it, because they don't have an CCTV evidence of this?