Found Deceased UK - Lindsay Birbeck, 47, Accrington, 12 Aug 2019 *Arrest*

[JosieJo]

These are my thoughts about the bin. I wheeled my brown bin to the kerb last night. It was full and I found it heavy. I tried pulling it along like the person in the photo. It was difficult. It kept falling back onto the wheels unless I tipped it right over towards my back. It was easier to pull one handed. Anyway that is just my opinion. However I think that the person was taking the bin to a specified location. As @Angleterre says if the body had been decomposing for a while it would have attracted flies and maggots plus the smell would be unbearable. Therefore Lindsay was killed quite soon before the bin was summoned or she was kept in a freezer for a while. Lindsay's body was then put in the bin and taken to where it was found. The bin in the cemetery puzzles me. First of all I thought that someone was hoping to dispose of the body in a freshly dug grave. However, with Cadaver dogs the body would be found in no time. My next thought was that the perp was going to put the body on the railway track. I'm not sure if trains run on that line but it would sure make a mess of the body. Sorry I don't mean to be flippant but not sure how else to describe it. In other words, the mode of death might not be so obvious. Perhaps the murderer was disturbed by the walker and wasn't able to complete what he set out to do.
All MOO

I agree the bin does not look that heavy to me and I also feel it would be pulled one handed if heavy ...to ke it looks more "akward" than heavy

 

[Dcflag]

I agree the bin does not look that heavy to me and I also feel it would be pulled one handed if heavy ...to ke it looks more "akward" than heavy

I think it looks quite bottom heavy to me. But that's by the by, I'm not entirely convinced they believe she's in there in that particular footage. <modsnip>

 

[SpursGyal]

I think it looks quite bottom heavy to me. But that's by the by, I'm not entirely convinced they believe she's in there in that particular footage.<modsnip>

I agree, the footage is a week before her body was found, and i believe searches were done between then, LE or public.

 

[Tommy Turtle]

Do we have any evidence to suggest that this bin made multiple trips to the graveyard?

Perhaps the body was moved around as smaller parts and cut up off site?

Would explain the body being described as an object earlier on..

 

[JosieJo]

The graveyard disposal is what makes me think that part at least was down to 16-year-old thinking. Like, who would worry about finding bones in a cemetery type thinking. If that was your best option, you didn't have access to a vehicle.

Yes this way of thinking does seem juvenile...a more mature person might drive a body as far away as possible

 

[FrostOwl]

Also interesting:

- A third of women were killed by their partner or ex-partner1 (33%, 63 homicides) in the year ending March 2018.

Homicide in England and Wales - Office for National Statistics

So....67% of the time, the partner or ex DIDN'T do it.

And how many of those 67% of females died in the Manchester concert bombing or in the London terror attacks in 2017? Those were exceptional deaths, and if those victims, and of other similar deeds, are not counted as homicide victims, there would be 31 fewer victims, how many of them female?

 

[Kaykedi]

Do we have any evidence to suggest that this bin made multiple trips to the graveyard?

Perhaps the body was moved around as smaller parts and cut up off site?

Would explain the body being described as an object earlier on..

I think you could be on to something

 

[CharlestonGal]

And how many of those 67% of females died in the Manchester concert bombing or in the London terror attacks in 2017? Those were exceptional deaths, and if those victims, and of other similar deeds, are not counted as homicide victims, there would be 89 fewer victims, how many of them female?

They took the bombing and terror victims out of the statistics. I only quoted a few items - there is a lot more info at the link that explains how they arrived at their numbers.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Detectives have now confirmed that they have until 8.50pm on Saturday (August 31) to hold the suspect.

At that point, police will need to either charge or release the suspect, as that will 96 hours since the initial arrest on Tuesday (August 31).

Lindsay Birbeck murder investigation: Police have until Saturday to hold suspect

 

[chimpface]

I think we all suspect it's the same lad. Looks like LE has not confirmed that one way or the other.

I'd imagine that's to protect the identity of the person who was arrested if it was him in the Cctv from those who recognised him. As it would fuel even more rumours.

If that makes sense.

 

[Whitehall 1212]

The graveyard disposal is what makes me think that part at least was down to 16-year-old thinking. Like, who would worry about finding bones in a cemetery type thinking. If that was your best option, you didn't have access to a vehicle.

Or less juvenile but calculated thinking would be to purposely be involved in a search of the area post mortem but before deposition. The body is then deposited subsequent to the search of that area.

This would provide a level of forensic alibi, such as soil type on footwear, clothing fibres on or near the body, footprints matching sole pattern. All assuming the same clothing is worn throughout. It could also create reasonable doubt that forensic evidence from LB came from someone else that the offender came into contact with during the search.

Being 'involved' in the search can offer opportunity to obtain information on the investigation, remove potential suspicion by being 'involved' and will provide 'duping delight' for offenders with particular personality disorders.

MOO

 

[Davethom]

Exactly - it doesn't make any sense to do that.

I keep thinking 'why the cemetery - why place the body there?' To torment the police? The family? Or was it put there due to someone's naivety?

With the other obvious place to dump a body being searched by a large part of the community and the suspected perpetrator not having a car, I think his choice of places to hide the body were limited. My guess is he lives/was staying close to the cemetery, and took the body there when the chance arose.

 

[SpursGyal]

With the other obvious place to dump a body being searched by a large part of the community and the suspected perpetrator not having a car, I think his choice of places to hide the body were limited. My guess is he lives/was staying close to the cemetery, and took the body there when the chance arose.

Especially with numerous searches of the cemetery already, they may have seen it as a ‘safe option’

 

[RachelZachary]

I thought the cemetery was thoroughly searched? You would think that if a body had been there from the start, it would have been found. That’s not to say it was carried and placed there using a wheelie bin, but I’m not sure which is more likely - 1. LB was there the whole time and not found or 2. LB was moved there - carried or otherwise.

I don’t think this was random. JMO.

 

[Whitehall 1212]

Welcome aboard the WS bus by the way. Finding your posts v helpful and thought provoking

Thanks for the welcome.

I suspect this case is far from straightforward. Body in bin theories seem a step too far for me with the facts we have....very unusual/risky MO. Although as some fella once said:

Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth

 

[Dcflag]

Is this case going to descend into in depth Occam's razor discussion

For what it's worth there's still a whole lot of assumptions being made about the CCTV in general. For me the timings don't add up for her to have been in the bin in the footage.

Begs the question why they released it to the public..

 

[CharlestonGal]

Is this case going to descend into in depth Occam's razor discussion

For what it's worth there's still a whole lot of assumptions being made about the CCTV in general. For me the timings don't add up for her to have been in the bin in the footage.

Begs the question why they released it to the public..

Have you noticed there has not been a single appeal to the public since the arrest of this boy? Not a peep.

 

[Kaykedi]

Thanks for the welcome.

I suspect this case is far from straightforward. Body in bin theories seem a step too far for me with the facts we have....very unusual/risky MO. Although as some fella once said:

Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth

Exactly. Occam's razor may also bear fruit

 

[JosieJo]

Maybe just as simple as it seems? Bin found at scene...boy on CCTV with bin ..quickest way to get an ID a public appeal?

 

[Dcflag]

Maybe just as simple as it seems? Bin found at scene...boy on CCTV with bin ..quickest way to get an ID a public appeal?

I do think the speculation is getting s bit convoluted. And I'm totally guilty of it too. There's no real confirmation just assumptions. Which is great for chat when we're waiting on announcements. It will be interesting to see if anyone calls the outcome tomorrow.