Found Deceased UK - Lindsay Birbeck, 47, Accrington, 12 Aug 2019 *Arrest*

[CharlestonGal]

"A bin similar to the one in the footage was found near the scene where Birbeck was discovered, police said."

Lindsay Birbeck: teenager arrested over Accrington death

*Documenting link for bin found near body.

 

[CharlestonGal]

The police will never name a suspect under 18 in the UK. If he were to be charged and found guilty then the press may apply to the courts to lift the naming restrictions if its in the public's interest. As in Alesha Macphails killer's case for instance.

Do they every try juveniles as adults over there? We do it all the time in the states, but I'm not familiar with the UK. Thanks for the info!

 

[jamjim]

Do they every try juveniles as adults over there? We do it all the time in the states, but I'm not familiar with the UK. Thanks for the info!

Age of criminal responsibility

A 16 year old will be tried as a child here in the UK.

 

[CharlestonGal]

"Hours after the public appeal by police a 16-year-old boy was arrested on suspicion of murdering Lindsay.

The teenager is from Accrington and he remains in custody as of Wednesday morning."

Body of mum-of-two found in cemetery 12 days after she vanished - all we know

 

[CharlestonGal]

Age of criminal responsibility

A 16 year old will be tried as a child here in the UK.

Thank you. Are they then released at age 18 or 21 or something like that? (We keep many of them in prison for life, but I don't think UK does that...?)

 

[jamjim]

Thank you. Are they then released at age 18 or 21 or something like that? (We keep many of them in prison for life, but I don't think UK does that...?)

Types of prison sentences

"Murder
For murder, the court sets the minimum amount of time to be spent in custody. The young person can’t apply for parole before this time.

When released, the young person will be kept under supervision for the rest of their life."

 

[Legally Bland]

Thank you. Are they then released at age 18 or 21 or something like that? (We keep many of them in prison for life, but I don't think UK does that...?)

No, he'll have a minimum tariff which the judge will decide. Because he's under 18 the starting point will be 12 years which will then be increased or decreased depending on aggravating and mitigating factors.

All assuming he's found guilty.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Teenage boy arrested on suspicion of murder of teaching assistant in cemetery

Hyndburn Police (@HyndburnPolice) on Twitter

 

[CharlestonGal]

"Her husband Tim, 49, is chairman of nearby Hapton Parish Council, and their daughter SB, 16, collected her GCSE results last week.

The couple also share a son, SB, 19. The family were too upset to speak yesterday."

Boy, 16, is arrested on suspicion of murdering mother-of-two Lindsay Birbeck | Daily Mail Online

 

[Angleterre]

I think if police name him we can sleuth him, using initials. I think. Would need clarification from a mod.

Police won’t name him
He is a juvenile so until the age of 18 his identity will be protected and the only way in which that will change is if the judge at crown court lifts the restrictions and allows the media to name him. Otherwise it won’t happen- it’s the law in the UK
We also have very tight subjudice laws in the UK so once someone is arrested and charged, you will not hear anything about the case until the court appearance and it will only be allowed to be reported if permitted. It’s unlike the USA where you get to often know a lot of details in advance for eg ‘Making a murderer’ and how we had a ton of information from prosecution and defence beforehand and then daily updates during the trial. It’s to prevent the public and any subsequent jury being prejudiced against the offender from the off and forming an opinion in advance of serving as a juror at crown court. Sort of like protecting the right of innocence until proven guilty.

 

[CharlestonGal]

Police won’t name him
He is a juvenile so until the age of 18 his identity will be protected and the only way in which that will change is if the judge at crown court lifts the restrictions and allows the media to name him. Otherwise it won’t happen- it’s the law in the UK
We also have very tight subjudice laws in the UK so once someone is arrested and charged, you will not hear anything about the case until the court appearance and it will only be allowed to be reported if permitted. It’s unlike the USA where you get to often know a lot of details in advance for eg ‘Making a murderer’ and how we had a ton of information from prosecution and defence beforehand and then daily updates during the trial. It’s to prevent the public and any subsequent jury being prejudiced against the offender from the off and forming an opinion in advance of serving as a juror at crown court. Sort of like protecting the right of innocence until proven guilty.

Thank you for all that. I have noticed that UK cases go pretty quiet once an arrest is made. Freedom of the press here in the US allows a lot more release of information.

 

[Angleterre]

Yes and I would imagine he’s been brought in already, surely. Especially because LE is even calling him a suspect. Which makes me wonder—are we allowed to sleuth him? I’m personally conflicted about that anyway b/c I almost find it hard to believe anyone would do that. I’m hoping it’s unrelated.

Police won’t name him
He is a juvenile so until the age of 18 his identity will be protected and the only way in which that will change is if the judge at crown court lifts the restrictions and allows the media to name him. Otherwise it won’t happen- it’s the law in the UK
We also have very tight subjudice laws in the UK so once someone is arrested and charged, you will not hear anything about the case until the court appearance and it will only be allowed to be reported if permitted. It’s unlike the USA where you get to often know a lot of details in advance for eg ‘Making a murderer’ and how we had a ton of information from prosecution and defence beforehand and then daily updates during the trial. It’s to prevent the public and any subsequent jury being prejudiced against the offender from the off and forming an opinion in advance of serving as a juror at crown court. Sort of like protecting the right of innocence until proven guilty.

 

[Angleterre]

Thank you for all that. I have noticed that UK cases go pretty quiet once an arrest is made. Freedom of the press here in the US allows a lot more release of information.

Yes it does and because we on websleuths like to know details, that’s great but it’s not always the best approach for every case and I think sometimes it can be a balance as it can come close to damaging a trial and subsequent conviction if too much information is ‘out there and up for detailed discussion ‘. X

 

[Angleterre]

V much doubt it tbh

Police won’t name him
He is a juvenile so until the age of 18 his identity will be protected and the only way in which that will change is if the judge at crown court lifts the restrictions and allows the media to name him. Otherwise it won’t happen- it’s the law in the UK
We also have very tight subjudice laws in the UK so once someone is arrested and charged, you will not hear anything about the case until the court appearance and it will only be allowed to be reported if permitted. It’s unlike the USA where you get to often know a lot of details in advance for eg ‘Making a murderer’ and how we had a ton of information from prosecution and defence beforehand and then daily updates during the trial. It’s to prevent the public and any subsequent jury being prejudiced against the offender from the off and forming an opinion in advance of serving as a juror at crown court. Sort of like protecting the right of innocence until proven guilty.

 

[Angleterre]

I was just thinking that if this is trash bin guy, he had booties over his shoes like sub contractors wear while doing work in a house. So maybe he was just doing construction nearby & had materials in the bin?

However I feel like LE must have more on him because they flat out called him a suspect and arrested him instead of calling him a POI and picked him up for questioning. Seems like they have something on him.

Do we even know if trash bin guy is the one they arrested?

It’s a lot different in the UK than it is in the USA when making an arrest. We can virtually arrest with the slightest suspicion of involvement and as a member of the public, you have the right to arrest anybody you KNOW to be guilty of an arrestable offence. It’s not like the USA where you build your case beforehand. We can arrest for the purposes of securing evidence by questioning and search purposes and then we have limited time in which to then charge and put before the court or release them. We also now have double jeopardy which we didn’t use to have until recent years whereas you don’t yet have that in the USA

 

[Angleterre]

How long will the police have to either charge the 16 year old or let him go?

Depends on the evidence and any authorisation by a Police Superintendent or above and any subsequent further authorisation by a court magistrate but for the sake of not complicating the matter, initially 24 hours until further authority is sought

 

[CharlestonGal]

I wonder if this young man is known to anyone in the family? Or related to them? *speculation*

 

[happyday]

Thank you for this. It is interesting, the subtle differences in our systems. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

ETA I was trying to reply to Angleterre. Don’t know why the quote didn’t show up!

 

[Angleterre]

Do they every try juveniles as adults over there? We do it all the time in the states, but I'm not familiar with the UK. Thanks for the info!

Not usually no
In fact the court system bends over backwards to accommodate juvenile offenders to ensure that there can be no ground to appeal any guilty verdict if reached

 

[CharlestonGal]

Depends on the evidence and any authorisation by a Police Superintendent or above and any subsequent further authorisation by a court magistrate but for the sake of not complicating the matter, initially 24 hours until further authority is sought

I wish we could "hold" somebody like that. We bring them in for questioning but they don't have to answer any questions and are pretty much free to leave unless actually charged.