Found Deceased UK - Lindsay Birbeck, 47, Accrington, 12 Aug 2019 *Arrest*

[Dcflag]

The 'also known as' made me think that the 'strangulation' part didn't come directly from police but was the media interpretation, leaving open the exact nature of the method used.

Nice to see you amonet - it's been a few years.

I suspect manual strangulation - lending to the theory of it being more personal I suppose. I'm not entirely sure I believe that to be the case, but it would certainly suggest something not quite so prepared as when someone has a specific weapon.

 

[Amonet]

Nice to see you amonet - it's been a few years.

I suspect manual strangulation - lending to the theory of it being more personal I suppose. I'm not entirely sure I believe that to be the case, but it would certainly suggest something not quite so prepared as when someone has a specific weapon.

I thought I recognised your name! Welcome back!

 

[Whitehall 1212]

The term 'compression of the neck' is suitably vague for a number of potential scenarios and probably not elaborated on for reasons of investigative and evidential integrity.

MOO

 

[Whitehall 1212]

That would be classed as a ligature.

Hanging is compression of the neck under gravity, where there is total or partial suspension. A ligature would invariably be used as a method of non-manual strangulation, with external force applied by a third party.

MOO

 

[Scorpiette]

Ian Huntley references..I don't understand ...am I missing something?

 

[Kaykedi]

Ian Huntley references..I don't understand ...am I missing something?

I think the poster may be saying there's someone putting himself in the middle of the investigation (hiding in plain sight like Huntley). I don't know who she is referring to though

 

[Ruby1971]

I'm just trying to work out which of the following is most likely as regards wheelie bin guy pulling the bin down Burnley Road on 17 August:

1. He is the murderer and is taking the bin to the cemetery.

2. He knows the murderer and what he/she has done and is helping them out by taking the bin to the cemetery.

3. He is taking the bin to the cemetery for the murderer but has no idea what has happened or what is in the bin.

<modsnip>

My guess would be 3.

Def

Im not sure how you could prevent a dead body, concealed for that long, in the recent temperatures, from smelling. Also, her remains were not found IN a bin, a bin was nearby. He didn't just drop it off and walk away, if indeed he was pulling the bin in question. MOO.[/QUOTE

Concealed whilst transported and for disposal MOO

 

[FrostOwl]

I think the poster may be saying there's someone putting himself in the middle of the investigation (hiding in plain sight like Huntley). I don't know who she is referring to though

Ian Huntley killed two ten-year-old girls in 2002: Soham murders - Wikipedia

 

[Ironside]

I'm getting more of an Ian Stewart vibe here, I could be wrong though.

 

[SpursGyal]

I'm getting more of an Ian Stewart vibe here, I could be wrong though.

I would agree with that.

I think certain people, and their comments have led people to the ‘Huntley vibe’

 

[Dcflag]

I think when people (certainly me) refer to a Huntley vibe, they mean the same/similar thing.

Certainly early on with the very public organised searches. The feeling that someone is inserting themselves into the investigation. Or at the very least being vocal/standout.

Ian Stewart is an interesting comparison. I remember him speaking to police in the wrong tense about his wife which helped raise suspicion.

Is there any reason for a Stewart vibe/comparison Ironside?

 

[SpursGyal]

Don’t you think it looks like he is holding something between his hands and the bin handles, which are rounded in shape ?

Yes. Possibly a cloth.

 

[Angleterre]

Is this type of extension normal? To me it implies they don’t have much physical evidence as surely he would’ve been charged if they did? Hope that isn’t the case and I’m wrong, I’m not very knowledgeable on this subject.

It’s very normal
There are a hundred and one things happening behind the scenes and every second counts as alibis are checked and double checked and any routine movements that the suspect says in interviews that they made or areas they visited are corroborated . It’s frenetic during the first 24-96 hours of custody detention as I have gone through hundreds of times as a DCI in charge of a murder investigation.

 

[Skigh]

It’s very normal
There are a hundred and one things happening behind the scenes and every second counts as alibis are checked and double checked and any routine movements that the suspect says in interviews that they made or areas they visited are corroborated . It’s frenetic during the first 24-96 hours of custody detention as I have gone through hundreds of times as a DCI in charge of a murder investigation.

Your professional experience will give you a feeling about cases.Do you think the 16 year old in custody is the main perpetrator or that there will be other arrests?

 

[Angleterre]

He was arrested some time Tuesday evening? They had 24 hours, and were given a further 36. So Approx Friday afternoon before another extension/release or charge.

If the full 96 hours is granted then an easy way to process it is 96 hours is 4 days so arrested Tuesday evening plus 4 so Saturday evening is the latest he can be held and at that point he will either need to be charged or release without charge.

 

[Angleterre]

your nose would tell you, no scraps of material or weighing down could mask the smell i'm afraid. it was day 5 of the disappearance i believe, but could be wrong

I agree
The smell of a decomposing dead body is unlike any other smell that you have ever experienced. It’s truly one of those smells that you never get used to and is so toxic and such a horrific attack on your sense of smell. You never forget it and even if wrapped in material and with the lid bouncing up and down slightly, the smell will emanate plus ( I APOLOGISE FOR THE GRAPHIC TEXT I AM ABOUT TO POST) when a body is decomposing and is dead for this amount of time being suggested here by the time he’s transporting the wheelie bin in the CCTV , due to the process that the body goes through and due to the heat, there will be flies, lots of flies and maggots, lots of maggots and even jumping maggots . I will leave it there but it’s all from personal experience. MOO

 

[Angleterre]

I wonder if there's an "official" term that encompasses all kinds of strangulation/compression/ligatures etc. That could be where there is some confusion. Compression of the neck could very well be an umbrella term.

Yes you are correct- compression of the neck is by either manual strangulation or ligature or knee /feet or whatever means used to compress the neck and breaking the hyoid bone .

 

[Angleterre]

Your professional experience will give you a feeling about cases.Do you think the 16 year old in custody is the main perpetrator or that there will be other arrests?

It’s difficult to say without knowing the finer details of the investigation.
It’s not as easy as people believe to manually strangle a person. Lindsay was 5’11 and looks to be healthy and strong so for someone to kill her in that way, it will take a huge amount of strength plus I would suspect she will be fighting back to save herself and once the body releases the cortisol for fight or flight response and she is full of adrenaline then she will be unbelievably strong in fighting back. Conversely , if the suspect is full of adrenaline then he too will become very strong for a short time. So who knows . The suspect could be the person who murdered LB or he could be merely moving her body either with or without knowledge of what’s in the bin ( however I refer to my previous post that I find it impossible that he would not be able to smell the decomposing body as he wheels the blue bin along if in fact LB is inside it ). Furthermore, I would suspect that whoever strangled LB, would have injuries and scratches in plentiful supply as she would have fought back, unless rendered unconscious before strangulation).

 

[Skigh]

I agree
The smell of a decomposing dead body is unlike any other smell that you have ever experienced. It’s truly one of those smells that you never get used to and is so toxic and such a horrific attack on your sense of smell. You never forget it and even if wrapped in material and with the lid bouncing up and down slightly, the smell will emanate plus ( I APOLOGISE FOR THE GRAPHIC TEXT I AM ABOUT TO POST) when a body is decomposing and is dead for this amount of time being suggested here by the time he’s transporting the wheelie bin in the CCTV , due to the process that the body goes through and due to the heat, there will be flies, lots of flies and maggots, lots of maggots and even jumping maggots . I will leave it there but it’s all from personal experience. MOO

I find it hard to imagine he would look so casual walking the bin down the street with a bin with such a distinctive smell.Would flies not be swarming around him?
Any passer by could have smelt it.
perhaps he has been used as a decoy.

 

[Joolz1975]

It’s difficult to say without knowing the finer details of the investigation.
It’s not as easy as people believe to manually strangle a person. Lindsay was 5’11 and looks to be healthy and strong so for someone to kill her in that way, it will take a huge amount of strength plus I would suspect she will be fighting back to save herself and once the body releases the cortisol for fight or flight response and she is full of adrenaline then she will be unbelievably strong in fighting back. Conversely , if the suspect is full of adrenaline then he too will become very strong for a short time. So who knows . The suspect could be the person who murdered LB or he could be merely moving her body either with or without knowledge of what’s in the bin ( however I refer to my previous post that I find it impossible that he would not be able to smell the decomposing body as he wheels the blue bin along if in fact LB is inside it ). Furthermore, I would suspect that whoever strangled LB, would have injuries and scratches in plentiful supply as she would have fought back, unless rendered unconscious before strangulation).

What if she wasnt killed immediately? How long from moment of death is it until the horrible smells start to happen?

She could have been kept alive for a number of days I suppose.

However I still think if she was int that bin he would know even if he was asked to move it by a 3rd party. You would look wouldn't you surely.