Found Deceased UK - Lindsay Birbeck, 47, Accrington, 12 Aug 2019 *Arrest*

[Whitehall 1212]

Is this case going to descend into in depth Occam's razor discussion

For what it's worth there's still a whole lot of assumptions being made about the CCTV in general. For me the timings don't add up for her to have been in the bin in the footage.

Begs the question why they released it to the public..

A possibility.....Bin not seen during initial search of cemetery. Blue bin found near LB's body. LE trawl CCTV and find male pulling blue bin towards cemetery 5 days after LB last seen. LE cannot identify internally so go public for identity. Subsequent arrest very soon after.

Of course if there is a DNA match between the victim, immediate area of the crime scene and the arrested person then there could be a prima facie case to answer. Although with no report of a charge yet that may indicate that the evidence is purely circumstantial.

Of course this is only my opinion.

 

[Dcflag]

A possibility.....Bin not seen during initial search of cemetery. Blue bin found near LB's body. LE trawl CCTV and find male pulling blue bin towards cemetery 5 days after LB last seen. LE cannot identify internally so go public for identity. Subsequent arrest very soon after.

Of course if there is a DNA match between the victim, immediate area of the crime scene and the arrested person then there could be a prima facie case to answer. Although with no report of a charge yet that may indicate that the evidence is purely circumstantial.

Of course this is only my opinion.

It's so hard to second guess the reason for so many extensions. I kind of feel a hunch that they have fingerprints that tie him. No reason at all for that feeling though.

 

[Sally4x]

Maybe just as simple as it seems? Bin found at scene...boy on CCTV with bin ..quickest way to get an ID a public appeal?

I agree it could be that simple, but would love to find out the motive though. It’s really unusual.

 

[JosieJo]

I agree it could be that simple, but would love to find out the motive though. It’s really unusual.

It really is I agree

 

[Whitehall 1212]

It's so hard to second guess the reason for so many extensions. I kind of feel a hunch that they have fingerprints that tie him. No reason at all for that feeling though.

It could be that the forensic testing is challenging and LE are waiting for results.

Also bear in mind that detailed searches of addresses linked to the arrested person will probably have taken place and the result of any evidence found at those locations, including forensic and mobile phone/computer evidence, will need to be secured, analysed and witness statements taken. All this will need to be documented and put to the arrested person in interview.

Many people do not appreciate that LE in the UK have a duty to obtain and present ALL evidence. This includes evidence which may undermine the prosecution case or support the defence case. Although this is documented after charge but before trial at Court.

It's a great amount to do against the clock!

MOO

 

[Joolz1975]

They must have got something on the boy to keep getting extensions on detaining him I feel.

If he was innocently just strolling along with a wheelie bin and it was all a big misunderstanding I think he would have been released by now.

 

[Amonet]

Is this case going to descend into in depth Occam's razor discussion

For what it's worth there's still a whole lot of assumptions being made about the CCTV in general. For me the timings don't add up for her to have been in the bin in the footage.

Begs the question why they released it to the public..

Then we remove the assumption that there was a body in the bin in that footage...which was only from people leaping to conclusions.

If police want someone identified and there's several occasions where the person is on cctv, then police have a choice of which footage to show, and they pick one with certain things in mind...in this one it's a fairly clear image of the individual, the face looks identifiable, and as a bonus he's walking down the same street Lindsay was walking down on the last known cctv footage of her before she disappeared....So maybe this footage was chosen primarily for those reasons, not because there was a body in the bin at that point in time?

Occam should be the patron saint of sleuthers!

 

[Amonet]

They must have got something on the boy to keep getting extensions on detaining him I feel.

If he was innocently just strolling along with a wheelie bin and it was all a big misunderstanding I think he would have been released by now.

In Libby Squire's case, PR was questioned under arrest for the full 96 hours...and at the end of it he was charged with a number of offences that had zero to do with Libby's disappearance...

 

[Joolz1975]

In Libby Squire's case, PR was questioned under arrest for the full 96 hours...and at the end of it he was charged with a number of offences that had zero to do with Libby's disappearance...

Yeh he was, maybe similar will happen here but if they had NOTHING on this kid then I cant see a magistrate giving extensions especially not when it's a 16 year old.

They obviously have lots of questions that need to be put to him relating to what they have found and his involvement.

I full expect more arrests as well if I'm honest.

All MOO obviously.

 

[Alyce]

It could be that the forensic testing is challenging and LE are waiting for results.

Also bear in mind that detailed searches of addresses linked to the arrested person will probably have taken place and the result of any evidence found at those locations, including forensic and mobile phone/computer evidence, will need to be secured, analysed and witness statements taken. All this will need to be documented and put to the arrested person in interview.

Many people do not appreciate that LE in the UK have a duty to obtain and present ALL evidence. This includes evidence which may undermine the prosecution case or support the defence case. Although this is documented after charge but before trial at Court.

It's a great amount to do against the clock!

MOO

I agree, all of the above. Plus the age of the suspect will alter the questioning .....moo

 

[Dcflag]

Yeh he was, maybe similar will happen here but if they had NOTHING on this kid then I cant see a magistrate giving extensions especially not when it's a 16 year old.

They obviously have lots of questions that need to be put to him relating to what they have found and his involvement.

I full expect more arrests as well if I'm honest.

All MOO obviously.

I'm also of the opinion that we'll see more arrests.

 

[jiminy]

I agree, all of the above. Plus the age of the suspect will alter the questioning .....moo

I wonder if there's also the issue of having an appropriate adult present. He's at that funny in-between age and they might want to go with belt and braces to make sure everything is water tight.

 

[cherrytree9]

SBM

Begs the question why they released it to the public..

Maybe the wheelie bin footage isn't actually that relevant, but it's clearer than an important piece of CCTV where the same boy appears and looks like he's involved? This footage isn't that high quality, but it's pretty close up and you get a really good sense of his clothes and what he looks like.

Obviously if he's involved his moments are very important, but it's possible he's not doing anything regarding Lindsay in the clip.

 

[Whitehall 1212]

Yeh he was, maybe similar will happen here but if they had NOTHING on this kid then I cant see a magistrate giving extensions especially not when it's a 16 year old.

They obviously have lots of questions that need to be put to him relating to what they have found and his involvement.

I full expect more arrests as well if I'm honest.

All MOO obviously.

Notwithstanding that other serious unrelated offences may have come to light, for which he has been arrested and the ongoing detention relates to those investigations. Who knows he may have been de-arrested on suspicion of murder? MOO

The further applications for continued detention show that, if he was still being investigated for the murder, then there was insufficient evidence to charge at those points.

 

[CharlestonGal]

Notwithstanding that other serious unrelated offences may have come to light, for which he has been arrested and the ongoing detention relates to those investigations. Who knows he may have been de-arrested on suspicion of murder? MOO

The further applications for continued detention show that, if he was still being investigated for the murder, then there was insufficient evidence to charge at those points.

If they do charge him, will the charges be kept a secret like his identity is a secret?

 

[Sarahlou]

Maybe the wheelie bin footage isn't actually that relevant, but it's clearer than an important piece of CCTV where the same boy appears and looks like he's involved? This footage isn't that high quality, but it's pretty close up and you get a really good sense of his clothes and what he looks like.

Obviously if he's involved his moments are very important, but it's possible he's not doing anything regarding Lindsay in the clip.

They mentioned the bin though when they released that footage. Saying a similar bin was found in the cemetery. I think the bin being shown has relevance.

If they do charge him, will the charges be kept a secret like his identity is a secret?

No we will hear what he is charged with

 

[CharlestonGal]

They mentioned the bin though when they released that footage. Saying a similar bin was found in the cemetery. I think the bin being shown has relevance.



No we will hear what he is charged with

Thank you.

 

[Alyce]

I wonder if there's also the issue of having an appropriate adult present. He's at that funny in-between age and they might want to go with belt and braces to make sure everything is water tight.

yes, that was my thought when I said age - moo or even imo of course

 

[Skigh]

A possibility.....Bin not seen during initial search of cemetery. Blue bin found near LB's body. LE trawl CCTV and find male pulling blue bin towards cemetery 5 days after LB last seen. LE cannot identify internally so go public for identity. Subsequent arrest very soon after.

Of course if there is a DNA match between the victim, immediate area of the crime scene and the arrested person then there could be a prima facie case to answer. Although with no report of a charge yet that may indicate that the evidence is purely circumstantial.

Of course this is only my opinion.

I am enjoying your thoughtful and informative posts.
In your own opinion do you think there will be a further arrest or arrests?

 

[Joolz1975]

Notwithstanding that other serious unrelated offences may have come to light, for which he has been arrested and the ongoing detention relates to those investigations. Who knows he may have been de-arrested on suspicion of murder? MOO

The further applications for continued detention show that, if he was still being investigated for the murder, then there was insufficient evidence to charge at those points.

Yeh absolutely they obviously have not had enough for a murder charge up to now or there would have been one.

Be interesting to see what this evening brings.