GUILTY UK - Logan Mwangi, 5, found dead in Wales River, Bridgend, 31 July 2021 *arrests, inc. minor* #5

[Planet24]

The court reinforces the fact that it is not up to the defendants to prove their innocence but for the prosecution to prove their guilt. You are told that to give a guilty verdict you have to be 100% sure. That is what is worrying. There isnt enough evidence to be 100% sure who did it.

 

[Alyce]

A rather abrupt end there

Yes, surprising that AWs defence could not be heard this afternoon, but that may be due to other commitments for one of the QCs or Judge

 

[JosieJo]

Why do they keep having these half days? Surely they could have carried on so frustrating

 

[LucyRocket]

Hmmm not really 100% sure, but more that it is proven beyond reasonable doubt. The child died, he died as a result of homicidal violence, Cole was one of the people in the residence, there are independent witnesses to his cruel treatment of the child, he admits to extreme (in my view) punishment of the child, another defendant in the trial has given a pretty believable account of an assault he subjected the child to, and he has enough interest in covering up the child’s death to remove the child’s dead body and participate in a cover-up act. That’s enough to convince me without reasonable doubt. If it isn’t then no-one will be accountable for this little boy’s murder, and neither would anyone in a lot of cases.

 

[Skigh]

Why do they keep having these half days? Surely they could have carried on so frustrating

It has been a long trial. I am sure if it was possible they would have let all of the defence give their closing speeches today. Any court official or juror could have had a prior engagement.

 

[Linnyg]

Yes, surprising that AWs defence could not be heard this afternoon, but that may be due to other commitments for one of the QCs or Judge

Unless AWs defence isn't ready, or last minute prep after hearing JCs? Or perhaps it was scheduled for tomorrow and JCs was much shorter than expected?

 

[Alyce]

I think tomorrow may also be a half day, or at least not a long day. I can’t see the youth’s defence giving a long closing argument.

 

[katydid23]

The court reinforces the fact that it is not up to the defendants to prove their innocence but for the prosecution to prove their guilt. You are told that to give a guilty verdict you have to be 100% sure. That is what is worrying. There isnt enough evidence to be 100% sure who did it.

I think there is enough evidence to show that all three were guilty of assisting/enabling and carrying out this child's tragic murder. There were only these three people in that home when Logan was brutally battered to death.

One person has described some of the assaults---AW said the youth shoved Logan down the stairs and also swept his feet and helped JC bully the child. And AW described the assault by JC, which most likely caused the severe internal injuries.

Neither of the other two came forward to say what they think happened or what they saw or heard happening that could have killed Logan. And these attacks happened over a small span of time but there was more than one assault.

We only have AW's meagre account of the assault.No one else would talk. That gives me enough evidence to be sure that they ALL are complicit in the killing.

NONE OF THEM TRIED TO HELP LOGAN OR TRIED TO SAVE HIM. That in itself makes me very comfortable declaring they are all GUILTY in some way of the crimes.

 

[Skigh]

Unless AWs defence isn't ready, or last minute prep after hearing JCs? Or perhaps it was scheduled for tomorrow and JCs was much shorter than expected?

AW' s defence would have been ready and nothing different was said in JC,s to warrant any last minute changes.

I cannot see AC's defence taking that much longer and the youth's I imagine will be very short.

 

[Linnyg]

I'd confidently say none of them are getting away with all of it.
There will be some guilty verdict for each of them, and they will all be sentenced to some sort of imprisonment.
It's a shame our laws are rather lenient in my view and none of them will get what they deserve.

 

[Skigh]

I'd confidently say none of them are getting away with all of it.
There will be some guilty verdict for each of them, and they will all be sentenced to some sort of imprisonment.
It's a shame our laws are rather lenient in my view and none of them will get what they deserve.

I think JC will get a murder verdict and be given 30+years. What ever verdict the youth is given,I think he will spend a long time in secure accommodation as his behaviour will be a concern.

I hope AW is given a verdict of murder and also is given a suitably long sentence.

 

[LucyRocket]

I have a feeling they all, particularly AW, might feel ‘guilty’ is a real probability after prosecution’s closing today. From reading it, I got the sense that there is no alternative for AW as she implicated herself heavily in testifying she was aware of and witnessed assaults dating right back to the previous year.

 

[Linnyg]

I'm hoping the youth is put through some intense therapy and analysed because he displays very concerning behaviour that will become an issue as he progresses into adulthood.
I do not feel sorry for him, but I do feel as though he just wants to feel wanted. He was attacked as a young child, passed around homes and placements within the care system, and I doubt he was ever provided with help to process the things that he has been through. He is a very unstable child, and I believe if he had been supported better, he could have learnt to see how the start of his life with the abuse, was similar to what he was seeing LM subjected to, and possibly could have helped. I'm just running through these thoughts in my own mind, based on experience of working with troubled youths. Social services provide a safe place for children at risk, but due to work load, they are unable to provide adequate mental health support which I feel is essential to n abused/neglected child to have the best chance of a balanced life.
Again it's not sympathy, just a small highlight on a system that is seriously under resourced. MOO

 

[Parker Knoll]

I feel the youth will most definitely re offend in the future.

 

[Alyce]

Interesting article re beyond reasonable doubt and the suggested replacement wordings


Judges told to stop using 'beyond reasonable doubt' because jurors don't understand what it means | Daily Mail Online

 

[Dotta]

I just have a feeling that JC defence closing speech was just a "token" defence.
But maybe not all has been reported.

It speaks a lot of his character, that not 1 of his family members talked on his behalf.

MOO

 

[Skigh]

I'm hoping the youth is put through some intense therapy and analysed because he displays very concerning behaviour that will become an issue as he progresses into adulthood.
I do not feel sorry for him, but I do feel as though he just wants to feel wanted. He was attacked as a young child, passed around homes and placements within the care system, and I doubt he was ever provided with help to process the things that he has been through. He is a very unstable child, and I believe if he had been supported better, he could have learnt to see how the start of his life with the abuse, was similar to what he was seeing LM subjected to, and possibly could have helped. I'm just running through these thoughts in my own mind, based on experience of working with troubled youths. Social services provide a safe place for children at risk, but due to work load, they are unable to provide adequate mental health support which I feel is essential to n abused/neglected child to have the best chance of a balanced life.
Again it's not sympathy, just a small highlight on a system that is seriously under resourced. MOO

To be fair ,we do not know what help or therapy he has been offered.

I think it is highly probable he was already well known to the police.

Those 2 little girls in his foster family placement were fortunate not to have been harmed or worse,killed.

 

[Alyce]

Yes, surprising that AWs defence could not be heard this afternoon, but that may be due to other commitments for one of the QCs or Judge

Or I suppose the other way of reasoning is that if they had heard AWs defence this afternoon, it would be two closings for the Jury to consider in one day. I know that does happen but better for them if it can be avoided. Plus it would make tomorrow a very short day - I expect the youth's defence to take no more than 30-40 minutes.

 

[Bluedaisy100]

After the verdict will we find out more details about the youth and more background on the story in general?

 

[Skigh]

After the verdict will we find out more details about the youth and more background on the story in general?

We will hear more details and there will probably be stories from people who know the family . How much we hear about the youth will depend on whether reporting restrictions are lifted.