GUILTY UK - Louise Smith, 16, Havant, Hampshire, 8 May 2020 *Arrest*

[Stumpyaura]

I was walking through Havant Thicket yesterday, close to where it happened and it made me so sad to think of poor Louise. Where it happened was on the outer edges of where people might be walking but tantalising close to where a large amount of people would have been enjoying family walks and exercise that day. It is unimaginable that such brutality was happening hundreds of yards away from people in all likelihood and that he walked off that day not full of remorse and horror at what had just happened, but anger still at Louise for whatever perceived wrong she had done that caused him to to carry out that act. I don't understand why the judge didn't take into account all of the cold and calculating factors that make him an extremely dangerous individual (and going to see her mother that day is terrible to imagine).

 

[Alyce]

Completely agree Stumpy. Psychopath for sure. Watching the video clips of him walking to his mother's house in Stratfield Gardens, just minutes after he has murdered Louise, he just looks so casual and normal. I know this is the case with many violent murderers, they have no concern or thought for what they have done, but it is still chilling to see.

 

[StillDiggin]

This is a video that shows Hampshires Search and rescue operation involvement in there search for Louise.
Hampshire Search and Rescue the support from the community was outstanding.

 

[Justice4all9]

Its comforting for us non murderers to classify SM as a monster (I was at the front of the line). I'm not excusing the horrific crimes he committed upon Louise, if it were not for him she would be alive. There were other factors at play both for Louise and for him, She was vulnerable and frustration and anger were obviously building in him. His memory lapses and denial might be better described as Dissociation. The level of overkill and self denial points to this. As a dissociater myself I agree there is always a choice. Despite his leery 'arrogant' grin, I think SM would be better rehabilitated in a mental health institution ( horrible name) basically a hospital

 

[dalsglen]

Its comforting for us non murderers to classify SM as a monster (I was at the front of the line). I'm not excusing the horrific crimes he committed upon Louise, if it were not for him she would be alive. There were other factors at play both for Louise and for him, She was vulnerable and frustration and anger were obviously building in him. His memory lapses and denial might be better described as Dissociation. The level of overkill and self denial points to this. As a dissociater myself I agree there is always a choice. Despite his leery 'arrogant' grin, I think SM would be better rehabilitated in a mental health institution ( horrible name) basically a hospital

Just, nope

 

[Kitkat28]

Just, nope

This 100 %

The goal is not “rehabilitation”, but justice for Louise and ensuring safety for the rest of the female population.

 

[Justice4all9]

Thats ok, I understand. An eye for an eye and all. What he did was horrendous and if it were my child, I wouldn't feel so far removed. I guess in my gut I dont feel he was truly evil, and there are some truly evil murderers out there. Taking Louise to HT was a premeditated attempted sexual assault IMO and what happened next was albeit horrific, a panicked overkill attempt to erase what he perhaps genuinely convinced himself she wanted too. I dont think we can completely ignore his extremely low intelligence and very small life. I do not in any way condone what he did, that is not what I'm saying. Not all murderers are born evil is what I believe. Someone of such a low IQ I believe is capable of freaking out and doing something horrific, that they later struggle to accept truly happened. Sorry I'm not trying to offend or minimalise his crime in any way. X

 

[Stumpyaura]

Appreciate you clarifying your opinions and I think it's always worth having a nuanced discussion about people and moving away from black and white notions of evil monsters etc but I do struggle with him to see the humanity. The attack was so brutal and so uncontrolled happening in a place where he could have been disturbed. He's demonstrated no remorse or aided the police in any step of the investigation. During the trial he still didn't take any responsibility and put the blame on Louise as being the trigger for him starting the attack. The ferocity of the attack shows what a dangerous individual he is. As for whether he should be in a therapeutic setting, he was assessed thoroughly and this was presented in court. At no point did the Clinical Psychologist suggest that he was not fit to stand trial or not responsible for his crime due to mental illness. Even the defense didn't use his low IQ as part of the defense in any meaningful way from what we can see from reports. I agree it was probably a premeditated sexual attack plan and can imagine that lock down had worsened any anger/frustration issues but I feel he was fully culpable at every stage of this terrible crime.

 

[Justice4all9]

Appreciate you clarifying your opinions and I think it's always worth having a nuanced discussion about people and moving away from black and white notions of evil monsters etc but I do struggle with him to see the humanity. The attack was so brutal and so uncontrolled happening in a place where he could have been disturbed. He's demonstrated no remorse or aided the police in any step of the investigation. During the trial he still didn't take any responsibility and put the blame on Louise as being the trigger for him starting the attack. The ferocity of the attack shows what a dangerous individual he is. As for whether he should be in a therapeutic setting, he was assessed thoroughly and this was presented in court. At no point did the Clinical Psychologist suggest that he was not fit to stand trial or not responsible for his crime due to mental illness. Even the defense didn't use his low IQ as part of the defense in any meaningful way from what we can see from reports. I agree it was probably a premeditated sexual attack plan and can imagine that lock down had worsened any anger/frustration issues but I feel he was fully culpable at every stage of this terrible crime.

 

[Justice4all9]

I can totally agree with all of what you are saying. I also struggle to believe that any sane person could commit such a crime. Maybe all prisons need to be hospitals?!

Hospitals without keys

 

[Legally Bland]

I can totally agree with all of what you are saying. I also struggle to believe that any sane person could commit such a crime. Maybe all prisons need to be hospitals?!

Hospitals without keys

Nah, plenty of people commit crimes without being mentally ill. It can be a bit of a fool's errand trying to understand the whys of people like this when you're a normal, decent person and just don't think like SM.

There's no easy answers here, but I don't see sanity as a factor in this case.

ETA: Just reading this back and I think it may come across as quite patronising, that really isn't my intention, hope you're not offended.

 

[mrazda71]

I can totally agree with all of what you are saying. I also struggle to believe that any sane person could commit such a crime. Maybe all prisons need to be hospitals?!

Hospitals without keys

I completely get where you're coming from and I agree with you.

Perhaps it's not so much about sanity though as 'content' people don't commit crimes.

The vast majority of people in prisons, are adults who suffered childhood poverty, neglect, abuse, sexual abuse, brain injuries, abandonment etc ... many have learning disabilities that aren't addressed, fetal alcohol syndrome.

None of these things are made better by imprisonment alone.

The issue is that they are sent to prison for punishment but, what they need to be 'better' is a whole host of things that would go against the wants of the 'eye for an eye' thinkers.

 

[mrazda71]

I am quite frustrated with one thing about this trial...

It being reported during the trial, before verdict that Shane had 'suffered a Stroke at 18' when after verdict it says he had 'Bells palsey' which is absolutely NOT a Stroke! It is a purely facial nerve and muscle issue which is temporary.

A Stroke is IN the brain.

 

[Legally Bland]

I am quite frustrated with one thing about this trial...

It being reported during the trial, before verdict that Shane had 'suffered a Stroke at 18' when after verdict it says he had 'Bells palsey' which is absolutely NOT a Stroke! It is a purely facial nerve and muscle issue which is temporary.

A Stroke is IN the brain.

It was clarified before the jury retired in agreed facts. I guess it wasn't anticipated by the prosecution so they didn't challenge it at the time.

Mr Horder says when giving evidence Mays referred to having a stroke, he was referencing Bell's palsy, which he had in August 2010. It caused a temporary paralysis to his left side of his face in August 2010. ‘It was remedied by medication,’ Mr Horder says.

 

[mrazda71]

It was clarified before the jury retired in agreed facts. I guess it wasn't anticipated by the prosecution so they didn't challenge it at the time.

It frustrates me so much as it spreads misinformation that can be detrimental to genuine young Stroke survivors like my daughter.

Anyway! Thank goodness that some 'justice' has been given to Louise and the people that loved her.

 

[Kitkat28]

It’s not about “an eye for an eye” though, not for me anyway. I’m not one of those on Facebook ranting about stringing people up or vigilante justice.

I just don’t think you need to “rehabilitate” anyone who can do that to a young woman. Society doesn’t need people like that on the streets, ever.

I’m not particularly bothered at the trial stage whether they are evil or mentally ill because I don’t think it matters. Did they do it, yes or no? The time for doctors/psych team/etc to decide whether they are ill is afterwards to figure out where they spend their sentence, hospital or prison.

 

[mrazda71]

It’s not about “an eye for an eye” though, not for me anyway. I’m not one of those on Facebook ranting about stringing people up or vigilante justice.

I just don’t think you need to “rehabilitate” anyone who can do that to a young woman. Society doesn’t need people like that on the streets, ever.

I’m not particularly bothered at the trial stage whether they are evil or mentally ill because I don’t think it matters. Did they do it, yes or no? The time for doctors/psych team/etc to decide whether they are ill is afterwards to figure out where they spend their sentence, hospital or prison.

I'd have to respectfully disagree on the 'evil' part. Using a blanket term like that detracts from the fact that they're 'just' people, just human beings...

It's important to truly understand why people end up committing crimes like the ones we all follow here because if you don't, if you just deem them evil and lock them up then you'll never learn and ultimately prevent future crimes, which is surely what we all want?

 

[scapa]

I'd have to respectfully disagree on the 'evil' part. Using a blanket term like that detracts from the fact that they're 'just' people, just human beings...

It's important to truly understand why people end up committing crimes like the ones we all follow here because if you don't, if you just deem them evil and lock them up then you'll never learn and ultimately prevent future crimes, which is surely what we all want?

I generally agree about the value of the term "evil," in that it isn't a term of art (in crime, anyways) and doesn't have much explanatory power, since it tends to relate to a sense of outrage and horror on the part of observers (not unjustified in cases like this one) as opposed to a diagnostic category for offenders. What can we learn from his attack, given what we know, that can really protect "the next victim?" To supervise teens in care more carefully and effectively? I feel like we know that already. Just not sure.

OTOH, I'm not sure that an impact offender like SM can be rehabilitated anytime soon, if ever. What did he contibute to society before he committed this crime? What is he likely to add if released? Incarceration serves a protective function in the near and long term -- and that may be it, unfortunately.

 

[Skigh]

Sentence of Louise Smith's killer Shane Mays to be reviewed by Court of Appeal | Daily Mail Online

 

[Lucy6226]

Sentence of Louise Smith's killer Shane Mays to be reviewed by Court of Appeal | Daily Mail Online

Gosh I was about to get really angry about this until I realised it is to possibly extend his sentence. I really hope this goes through, his life term should mean life. I support rehabilitation but he clearly poses a danger if released IMO