UK -Major incident declared - UK anti-terror police investigating possible nerve agent attack, 2018

[dotr]

REVEALED: Final movements of poisoned Amesbury couple before they were rushed to hospital
"Officers are trawling through more than 1,300 hours of CCTV footage and are speaking to several key witnesses."

"Friday, 29 June:

• At around 12:20pm the man and woman are together at John Baker House in Salisbury.
• They then leave that venue and visit a number of shops in Salisbury before going to Queen Elizabeth Gardens.
• They return to John Baker House at around 4.20pm before catching a bus to Amesbury at approximately 10.30pm. In the absence of any information to the contrary at this stage, detectives are currently working on the basis that they then spent the night at an address on Muggleton Road, Amesbury."
• Saturday, 30 June:
  
  • At 10.15am, the South West Ambulance Service are called to an address on Muggleton Road, where the 44-year-old woman had been taken ill, and she was subsequently taken to hospital. The man was also present at the address at this time.
  • At around midday, the man visits Boots the chemist on Stonehenge Walk in Amesbury and then returns to his address in Muggleton Road around half an hour later.
  • At around 1.45pm he visits the Amesbury Baptist Centre on Butterfield Drive and again returns home at around 15:00hrs.
  • At 6.20pm the South West Ambulance Service are called back to the address on Muggleton Road and the man is also taken to hospital"
  
  
• "Anyone who may have information that could assist with this investigation is urged to contact police on 0800 789 321."
  
  Anyone with health concerns should follow the advice provided by Public Health England or call the dedicated helpline on 0800 092 0410 or 020 7158 0124.
  

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

With as potent as Novichok apparently is, if this couple had injected it, they'd be dead.

The police should release what specific item was contaminated or tell the public they have no idea and avoid Queen Elizabeth Gardens.

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

REVEALED: Final movements of poisoned Amesbury couple before they were rushed to hospital
"Officers are trawling through more than 1,300 hours of CCTV footage and are speaking to several key witnesses."

"Friday, 29 June:

• At around 12:20pm the man and woman are together at John Baker House in Salisbury.
• They then leave that venue and visit a number of shops in Salisbury before going to Queen Elizabeth Gardens.
• They return to John Baker House at around 4.20pm before catching a bus to Amesbury at approximately 10.30pm. In the absence of any information to the contrary at this stage, detectives are currently working on the basis that they then spent the night at an address on Muggleton Road, Amesbury."
• Saturday, 30 June:
  • At 10.15am, the South West Ambulance Service are called to an address on Muggleton Road, where the 44-year-old woman had been taken ill, and she was subsequently taken to hospital. The man was also present at the address at this time.
  • At around midday, the man visits Boots the chemist on Stonehenge Walk in Amesbury and then returns to his address in Muggleton Road around half an hour later.
  • At around 1.45pm he visits the Amesbury Baptist Centre on Butterfield Drive and again returns home at around 15:00hrs.
  • At 6.20pm the South West Ambulance Service are called back to the address on Muggleton Road and the man is also taken to hospital"
  
  
• "Anyone who may have information that could assist with this investigation is urged to contact police on 0800 789 321."
  
  Anyone with health concerns should follow the advice provided by Public Health England or call the dedicated helpline on 0800 092 0410 or 020 7158 0124.

It seems odd that the female was taken by ambulance while incoherent and frothing at the mouth at 10:15 and her friend then leaves the house to visit a pharmacy and then walks over to a free food event at the Baptist Church. Why didn't he travel to the hospital when she was exhibiting such bizarre symptoms?

 

[Amonet]

Do they have any idea how long it takes from initial contamination to the major symptoms appearing?

 

[Hatfield]

Do they have any idea how long it takes from initial contamination to the major symptoms appearing?

Thats a good question and can help determine where it was likely something got touched. Work backwards from time of ambulance call based on length of time it takes to take effect.

 

[dotr]

Do they have any idea how long it takes from initial contamination to the major symptoms appearing?

Novichok agent - an overview | ScienceDirect Topics
Rbbm.
"The main route of exposure is thought to be by inhalation, although absorption may also occur via skin or mucous membrane exposure."

"Novichok is reported to be 5–8 times more lethal than VX nerve agent and effects are rapid, usually within 30 seconds to 2 minutes."

"Local effects are thought to be immediate, while systemic effects may be delayed up to 18 hours."

"Persistency
Novichok agents have a higher density than air and will therefore tend to collect in low-lying areas."

 

[dotr]

Rbbm.
Amesbury novichok poisoning: Police operation 'could take months'
Saturday 07 July 2018
"One theory understood to be under investigation is whether the pair inadvertently found the container used to transport the nerve agent in the Skripal attack before being discarded.

Mr Rowley has been described as having foraged for goods to fix and sell, and is known to have collected discarded cigarettes."

 

[Ellmau]

I would think, though, that as DS was taken Ill earlier, she would have had the first exposure.

 

[Taskforce88]

Novichok can be degraded by rainwater and sunlight over time - meaning it was probably discovered by the pair in a contained space, a government source said.

 

[jjenny]

Novichok can be degraded by rainwater and sunlight over time - meaning it was probably discovered by the pair in a contained space, a government source said.

Or it wasn't original Novichok. The UK government doesn't seem to have any proof of their claims. They blamed Russia for Skripals but haven't provided any proof of that. Now they are blaming this poisoning on Russia, again with no proof.

 

[jjenny]

Thats a good question and can help determine where it was likely something got touched. Work backwards from time of ambulance call based on length of time it takes to take effect.

In Skripal's case, supposedly they walked around for hours after being exposed to Novichok, if it really was on their font door. From what has originally being reported, Novichok is supposed to be fast acting, but the one used to poison Skripals certainly doesn't appear to be.

 

[CARIIS]

In Skripal's case, supposedly they walked around for hours after being exposed to Novichok, if it really was on their font door. From what has originally being reported, Novichok is supposed to be fast acting, but the one used to poison Skripals certainly doesn't appear to be.

At some level it seems as if it might be residue from the first attack. It is the same batch etc etc and they were really close to the other one

the hard thing to understand is if we go with it had been "there" for five months why now

then I guess if we go into lifestyle and dumpster diving that might explain why nothing had happened since the first one in that dumpster diving is lets say a unique activity - so maybe that is the actual reason for there being no one taking ill earlier than this week ??

It certainly seems less likely that russia would have a desire to attempt to kill two middle aged troubled citizens ?

kinda like

identical batch + close proximity + going inside dumpsters

 

[CARIIS]

Novichok can be degraded by rainwater and sunlight over time - meaning it was probably discovered by the pair in a contained space, a government source said.

dumpster ideal?

 

[Taskforce88]

Or it wasn't original Novichok. The UK government doesn't seem to have any proof of their claims. They blamed Russia for Skripals but haven't provided any proof of that. Now they are blaming this poisoning on Russia, again with no proof.

And anyone that questions the official narrative is automatically a Russian bot.

Novichok was developed by the Soviet Union in Uzbekistan, but with the clean up of the development site in the early 90's, samples of the nerve agent were taken for testing and examination to the US, UK, France. I read somewhere even Slovakia had samples.

 

[jjenny]

And anyone that questions the official narrative is automatically a Russian bot.

Novichok was developed by the Soviet Union in Uzbekistan, but with the clean up of the development site in the early 90's, samples of the nerve agent were taken for testing and examination to the US, UK, France. I read somewhere even Slovakia had samples.

It also has been reported that the structures of these novichoks aren't secret. So they could be synthesized pretty much anywhere.

 

[Taskforce88]

It also has been reported that the structures of these novichoks aren't secret. So they could be synthesized pretty much anywhere.

If I recall correctly a scientist in Iran published it online for all to see.

 

[Taskforce88]

Police officer was taken to hospital "for medical advice in connection with the ongoing incident in Amesbury" - Sky News

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

Novichok agent - an overview | ScienceDirect Topics
Rbbm.
"The main route of exposure is thought to be by inhalation, although absorption may also occur via skin or mucous membrane exposure."

"Novichok is reported to be 5–8 times more lethal than VX nerve agent and effects are rapid, usually within 30 seconds to 2 minutes."

"Local effects are thought to be immediate, while systemic effects may be delayed up to 18 hours."

"Persistency
Novichok agents have a higher density than air and will therefore tend to collect in low-lying areas."

Novichok poisons within 30 seconds to 2 minutes if it is inhaled. If it must be absorbed through the skin, it's going to take a lot longer.

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

Police officer was taken to hospital "for medical advice in connection with the ongoing incident in Amesbury" - Sky News

Taken to the hospital? He had to ride in an ambulance or someone had to drive him.

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

Police officer given all clear after nerve agent tests at Salisbury District Hospital