Found Deceased UK - Nicola Bulley Last Seen Walking Dog Near River - St Michaels on Wyre (Lancashire) #16

[luce_92]

Good insights. Most people think that their friend or family member would never commit suicide, homicide, etc. And we often hear comments such as they saw the person this morning and she was so cheerful and happy, so this couldn't have happened. People can be experiencing major trauma and be suicidal but never give others a clue to their inner trauma.

One of her friends said "she would never leave her children". Well, in our right minds, we wouldn't ever leave our children or commit suicide. But, people who attempt to commit suicide or who commit suicide are often tormented with horrible death-dealing thoughts and they convince themselves that everybody would be better off if they weren't alive. When people are considering suicide, their thought process is often impaired and they have often convinced themselves that their family, friends and even their children would be happier, healthier and better off if they just disappeared.

I don't know if this is what happened but people who look and act totally together and normal can be experiencing terrible emotional pain and irrational thought processes that can lead to them convincing themselves that their committing suicide would be the best thing for everyone.

And, at the same time, somebody could have been stalking her and knew that she often walked at that time, and she could have been attacked or abducted.

There seems to be an intense focus on whether she somehow got in the river. And that could point to an accident, an intentional act on her part to either escape or commit suicide or an attack from somebody who strangled her or murdered her by the river and threw her in the river. Any of this is a lot to occur in a 12 minute time-frame, but all of these options are possible.

Risky for an attacker to murder her right there and then chuck her in the river even as a spontaneous act. They’d have had to lure her away/abduct her first to avoid being caught, it is very rare for someone to do that as a spontaneous act though, usually it’s planned/premeditated. The fact they may have seen the police spend all this time searching in the river, if I was an abductor, I would put her in the river now and when they eventually find her, pathologists might not be able to determine her cause of death after a certain length of time. And they might just come to the conclusion it was death by drowning, and the abductor gets away with it. Apologies for my bluntness but I’m autistic and generally say exactly what I’m thinking and I see it how it is sometimes.

 

[Helechawagirl]

It IS very confusing! Admittedly, I'm a bit of a continuity freak, but I just cannot get past the nagging weirdness which is the first witness's initial statement that 'the gent' 'comes through the gate after me and sees a phone lying on the floor', and later statements that it was found on the bench, which Ron re-stated in his Sky News live with KB.

I can't fully articulate why this bothers me so much, but it's troubled me right from the get-go.

Which IS it? It can't be both!

It’s bothersome because on the bench seems intentional or planned and on the ground indicates dropped.

 

[Helechawagirl]

Risky for an attacker to murder her right there and then chuck her in the river. They’d have had to lure her away/abduct her first.

Yea. The Debbie Collier case sure had me fooled.

 

[Helechawagirl]

That remark was from a friend of NB's who was interviewed later, after it was known who the missing person was - just in case anyone thinks it suspicious that the witness already knew it was NB rather than PA doing the walk that day.
--
She said: "The gent has looked on the floor and two feet from the bench there’s a phone. I think she’s either been faffing about at the edge of the river because the dog’s been smelling fishing bait and she’s slipped or she’s had a medical episode."

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/uk-news/friend-says-missing-nicola-bulley-26134452

quoted in lots of posts - fuller transcripts can be located by searching forum for 'faffing'.
<edited by me to correct error - new text i

Faffing? Is that a local word for urinating?

 

[luce_92]

Yea. The Debbie Collier case sure had me fooled.

Not if it’s premeditated

 

[VeraS]

Faffing? Is that a local word for urinating?

No ! Urban Dictionary: faffing

 

[Bedouin]

If you were walking along the river bank and saw someone in the water, drowning, what do you do? Try to save them and risk your own life? Call for help? Who do you call? Coastguard? Fire and rescue? or police? How much of a description of that person do you think you could give?
Would it be treated as a blue light emergency?

 

[rosieposie121]

I remember people questioning why it was necessary for PA to go back home and meet with police at the house. But given what we now know about a prior visit on Jan 10, it makes sense that they needed to have a more in-depth discussion than they could have at the riverside.

I think maybe the police were sure to find a body rather quickly in the immediate area and wanted to save him the scene.

 

[Undecided]

I think maybe the police were sure to find a body rather quickly in the immediate area and wanted to save him the scene.

In theory the police at the time being open to all theories, should’ve also been concerned with contamination of evidence and dna etc, so PA being at the bench compromised the evidence. I’d be sending the partner home from a possible crime scene too, at the time they were called to the scene, they can’t have been sure immediately that her going into the river was their main working hypothesis. This should’ve taken some more evidence gathering.

 

[Goldilox]

@Sillybilly so we cannot comment in the NB work fb page WSleuths has linked?

@Agatha3 I know why you want to know whether we can comment on that fb page - I think most on here have seen that content on there / seen it disappear also.

@Luxee - this leads to my question - if PA never made it as far as the bench and got turned around when did he go off and look at the big property on his own and why?

 

[PeggyHenry]

That's the worrying aspect I truly hope they've had other stuff under their hat all this time, they sometimes do! My main hope is obv that N is alive and well somewhere after having done an elaborate disappearing trick but it does seem rather unlikely JMO

I keep trying to go back to basics and try and forget all the clutter..,

There were tensions in her household

Her parents look after the girls after school every Thursday

She had face to face meeting with her boss on Thursday

Parents say she was upbeat when they left her house on Thursday

She logs into Work related Teams meeting on Friday whilst on dog walk

Disappears whilst meeting in progress without logging off

 

[Andreee]

dbm

 

[Undecided]

I just need to get clarification on something, because I’m wondering if assumptions are being made that may not be accurate: have LE or family reported anything specifically mentioning depression or possibility of suicide?

The reason I ask is because my understanding of perimenopause and menopause is that it’s a vulnerable time for women to experience a wide array of mental health issues, even if they’ve never experienced them before or only in mild forms. Mood disorders (depression, bipolar disorder, and anxiety) are one category of mental illness that may be exacerbated or have first onset during this period, but psychotic disorders like schizophrenia are another.

AFAIK, NB reportedly had vulnerabilities related to menopause and alcohol. Her family has reported that she suffered substantial negative effects from menopause including “brain fog,” then stopped taking HRT cold turkey because of severe headaches. They’ve stated that this abrupt cessation of HRT may have led to the current “crisis.”

With respect to the January 10 welfare check, my recollection is that LE stated no arrests were made, but that the matter was still being investigated.

**A different purely speculative take**

Maybe NB was not depressed or suicidal, but instead extremely anxious or experiencing psychosis-like symptoms. Maybe the January 10 visit was due to a panic attack, or paranoid delusions. Maybe she had expressed ideas or actions that involved harming someone not herself.

If abruptly stopping the HRT and the resulting sudden drop in estrogen led to a psychiatric crisis, for all we know, that crisis might have been related to manic, schizoid, or anxious delusional beliefs about PA, her family, or her children.

I suppose what I’m trying to say is, rather than being depressed or suicidal, is it possible NB developed ideas that led her to believe she needed to “escape” from people who might harm her, to plan that escape to avoid detection while operating under these delusions, even to secret away food and necessities in some location? Might she have left her phone so as not to be tracked? Might LE’s phrasing that they believed she “entered the river” be an indication she wanted to throw off scent hounds for a good distance? Could she be somewhere in an abandoned house actively trying to hide from authorities, who might be part of some imagined conspiracy?

PA’s recent interview wherein he says something like he wants every place within a certain area searched top to bottom makes sense to me if he believes she may be avoiding detection due to irrational beliefs.

MOO

Think where all of that would fall down for me is why PA, who had nowhere to be for an hour that morning and was also quiet enough to be off to the gym, whereas she had a zoom meeting, wouldn’t have supported her in the school run either by doing it or going with her. The suggestion is that she had huge side effects coming off HRT that caused this ‘crisis’ and that drink may have also been a problem. But on the other hand we have her off driving to meetings, doing zooms, getting the breakfast ready. We know about Jan 10th, so presumably those close to her knew there was a vulnerable situation. And we know those close to her felt like she had huge side effects with coming off HRT, and possibly has an issue with alcohol again, but then there she is doing school runs etc driving her precious children in a car , laughing with school mums , whilst PA is having a nice cup of tea at home, the picture doesn’t add up for me.

She wasn’t hiding things from her family as they knew all about these problems. And they seem pretty clear she was close to ‘crisis’

 

[Andreee]

No ! Urban Dictionary: faffing

lol, guessed from the usage here on thread that's what it meant.Didn't realize it was a newer type word in urban dictionary. (never heard of it here in Canada!)Kind of a cool sounding word.

 

[Mr X]

Another point with the brick shed is you could actually hide behind it. You wouldn't even need to be on the roof to be invisible to people coming along the path.

You could entice the dog with treats then when the dog starts hanging around the owner comes around looking for the dog and you grab her.

Maybe this is why it took longer than usual to walk that section. Because the dog was lost (eating the treats?).
Phone is dropped during this interaction then placed on bench by abductor. Possibility of the dog being very obedient and simply told, by the owner, to stay there by the bench. I think you would say this if threatened and dog would do it if obedient.
Owner and abductor then leave by the gate.

This is how an abduction makes sense here. I think if you were stood behind the back wall there nobody on the path would notice you unless they were especially looking out.

Image from sky news report.

IMO more likely to be a suicide and the dog shook itself out of the harness but who knows.

 

[Sillybilly]

@Sillybilly so we cannot comment in the NB work fb page WSleuths has linked?

<rsbm>
As per TOS, a victim's social media is fine for discussion. It is NB's account so it is allowed to be linked and discussed.

 

[Cluella DeVille]

I mentioned this in another thread about no-one answering when he phoned as I believe you can even if it is locked. It was during the missing witness time about 10.30am I believe. He said he rang her phone twice and once on WhatsApp

I also mentioned before regarding the possibility of the calls making the phone vibrate which may have made it fall off the bench onto the ground.

Except the phone was seen on the ground about 9.33, that's an hour before he rang. Nothing to say Willow couldn't have knocked it to the ground, but the discrepancy IMO lies in quite a specific sentence that a gent sees the phone two feet away from the bench on the ground morphing into it was on the bench

 

[joichatterjee]

if you try the ws word search, we've put tons of links from Royal College of Pathology onto previous threads.
Some of the links explain the complexity and are really informative

I imagine that it depends on a variety of factors, such as temperature, current, water chemistry, oxygen levels, and the body's condition prior to submersion. Generally, a full body can take anywhere from one to several weeks or months to decompose in water, depending on the abovementioned factors.

There seem to be conflicting witness statements as to where the dog lead was found. First, it was close to the river bank, then some distance between the bank and the bench.

If you see the river there is little tidal movement and if she fell in the depth is about 6inches.

Some have hypothesised that she could have weighed herself down stones.

The case scenario path simply doesn't add up that she purposefully or accidentally went into the river.

 

[Sillybilly]

Anyone know if there's been any checks for trail cams in the area where Nicola disappeared ?

 

[Mr X]

Edit to remove double post