Found Deceased UK - Nicola Bulley Last Seen Walking Dog Near River - St Michaels on Wyre (Lancashire) #17

[Penny68]

I remember a specialist sonar team before consisting of a couple Bring up the bodies: the retired couple who find drowning victims | Forensic science | The Guardian

Reinforcement that finding drowning victims isn’t always quick and this fits with my own personal recall of cases in the media.

Not sure why DM etc have to make out there needs to be an equiry for how long to find. They simply cannot let NB rest in peace without a last turn or the screw/clickbait. So grim.

I have just read all from the link you have put on. Such a wonderful couple, so dedicated in all they did in helping so many be at peace when their deceased loved ones were found.

 

[JennieM]

Nicola Bulley: Ex-editor demands scrutiny of media coverage​

The press regulator must "demonstrate it really has teeth" and examine how Nicola Bulley's disappearance was reported, a former editor has said.

I think it's the opportunity for IPSO (Independent Press Standards Organisation) to demonstrate that it means business. People had been behaving "very badly, not least members of the public and social media", she added. "It's become the most extraordinary feeding frenzy."

Evan Harris, former director of the Hacked Off campaign group, said: "There's one big difference between the people on social media, who I condemn, and newspapers.

"That's the editor. These purport to be an edited, curated product, therefore they can be regulated and they should be regulated. It's hard to regulate a bloke in his basement."

Nicola Bulley: Ofcom 'extremely concerned' by family media complaints

The broadcasting regulator writes to ITV and Sky News "to ask them to explain their actions".

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[ayrshireguy]

There seems to be an attitude from media and also the public in general that they are entitled to know every detail of everything and that experts are not to be trusted.
There are people just waiting to criticise the police and others who are just doing their jobs. It’s not going to be perfect everytime but this constant hounding of people is causing more problems and distracting people from their work.

The media are supposed to report news rather than create it by inventing conspiracy theories and reporting on SM rumours. They need to remember where that line is because it’s been crossed too many times recently,

We Brits have always admired and preferred quiet professionals that come in and do the job without any fanfare and we let them get on with it.

What's been happening over recent years is this demand from the media and large sections of the public who want a bloody running commentary on everything. IMO 24-hour news media was the beginning.

 

[Nikynoo]

Whilst we await the result of pathology and what I hope is a final police announcement on this case. Many will remember how jumping to a conclusion can mean that evidence is not always preserved.

The Claudia Lawrence case, a typical example. A missing person case deemed so by police in the early days of the investigation, despite evidence to the contrary. Her house not treat as a crime scene until evidence was lost for good.

In this case, would a statement such as:

"We are keeping an open mind in this investigation and conducting a thorough search of the area where NB was last seen, however due to the proximity of a river on Nicolas walk, we are also conducting a full and detailed search of the river"

And for the statement regarding her issues regarding fragility:

" We have discussed with the family why Nicola may have disappeared and are aware that leading up to the disappearance, Nicola may have been in a fragile state of mind"

The above could have been worded jointly by police and family.

Hindsight but we are supposed to be in the hands of proffesionals.

I doubt that the police will make any further statements, unless the pm shows foul play. As stated at the press conference, the case has been passed to the Coroner and as part of that process, the police will provide a report to the Coroner for the subsequent inquest. The Coroner can instruct the police to investigate if the Coroner has any concerns. If, for example, the pm reveals foul play, the inquest will be opened and adjourned, whilst the police investigate. If the pm reveals no foul play, the Coroner will rely on the police report (and witness reports) to come to a conclusion e.g. accidental drowning.

 

[Cuko]

The police were right all along. The likes of Wootton will never admit that however.

The family seem pretty happy with the LP. Any anger should be focused towards the media (hint for Dan, the industry you are in).

The police may well have been right all along. However, there is no way of knowing that for certain until the autopsy has been completed. It may well show that Nicola drowned, but it could show that she didn’t, and that her body was placed in the reeds/river after she had died. The only thing that can provide a degree of certainty is the autopsy.

 

[cottonweaver]

What I found odd at the time was he was giving his own independent press briefings. I am not sure if there was police press liaison with him or not but really they should have put a stop to it straight away (maybe they tried?)

He more than anyone drove the media frenzy because he was so available to the rolling news coverage, incredibly even acting as a defacto spokesman for the family at one point.

He stated she was not in the river and however he now tries to walk that back, people intepreted the comment in an obvious way - that was critical in the media losing patience with the investigation - suddenly we had an army of talking heads claiming the investigation was botched.

sigh

We'll never to get to the bottom of it, but somebody with connections seems to have offered him up as a media pundit . His first interview was around 5th Feb - on GBNews - where he blasts the LE operation to date - and in his first TV interview he said that he'd already been in contact with the (desperate) family and offered the family his services. (Also member @Marie Bell on the previous thread, did some digging and deduced that the introduction was facilitated by MWT. )

Would it have been possible for LP to get him to sign some kind of ' no comment' contract, as a private company volunteer? If not, what would've happened if LP had refused permission to volunteer or permission to publicise searches ? major backlash? Unwinnable situation? IDK

I think LP were in a very difficult position.... because of the family's beliefs that a drowning was incredible and PF's claims of being able to eliminate NB ever having gone in the river

Nicola Bulley latest: Top forensic scientist rubbishes 'foolish' police theory - 'She is NOT in that river'

Nicola Bulley vanished while walking her dog more than a week ago

www.gbnews.uk

'A top forensic expert has claimed he doesn’t agree with police claims that Nicola Bulley fell into the River Wyre.
Nicola’s sister has rubbished the official statement and also questioned the evidence so far.'

( re ' forensic expert' quote above, PF doesn't appear to hold any forensic qualifications)

 

[Nikynoo]

Disagree. Nicola did not consent to having her medical information shared. Menopause and alcoholism are both private medical information. That alone makes it wrong. It’s not her job to have her intimate medical information exploited to publicise these health problems.

Menopause is stigmatised whether we like it or not. It’s all very well saying this has helped, but again, she didn’t consent to being used in this way.

I also disagree that it’s even helped: attributing her disappearance even in a vague way to the menopause contributes to the damaging myth that women going through the menopause are irrational and unstable, which just adds to the stigma.

The fact they even mentioned these things implies that the police will jump to conclusions about the disappearance of women who are menopausal or alcoholic (regardless of whether they actually do or not).

Even if they turn out to be correct in this case, releasing this private information seems judgemental and misogynist while pretending to be sympathetic.

Squish, can I ask why you think the police needed consent to release her medical information?

 

[cottonweaver]

Agreed. The problem is unqualified speculation which often revealed the pundit wasn't even up to speed on the facts.

Those of us who posted through the Pistorius trial on here are well aware that MWT produced a laughably poorly researched TV documentary on the case that overlooked evidence at trial.

It's very frustrating because the Everard case made clear the huge issues in UK policing regards safety of women which this case has nothing to do with!

The case is over now, but when i scan the media this morning, I doubt much has been learned.

re bit in bold - Absolutely haven't learned

Here's an oldie on MWT, under a previous editor
Self-promoting TV detective helped ruin the lives of innocent celebs

ETA - problem going forward, is that if the inquest is not as conclusive as everybody would like, the speculation never ends. I posted about the Todd inquest into an apparent case of suicide, to illustrate the level of proof the coroner might require Todd death 'not suicide' ( Prior to inquest, all the media links speculated suicide)

 

[JennieM]

Perhaps. But all the public needs to know from here on out is that there was no foul play. No lingering threat to the community. Unless she had a medical incident that showed up on autopsy that led to her demise.

Couldn't agree more. There is nothing more for us to know or speculate on. The family was clear.

 

[ayrshireguy]

re bit in bold - Absolutely haven't learned

Here's an oldie on MWT, under a previous editor
Self-promoting TV detective helped ruin the lives of innocent celebs

ETA - problem going forward, is that the inquest is not as conclusive as everybody would like & speculation never ends. I posted about the inquest into this case to illustrate the level of proof the coroner might require Todd death 'not suicide'

I understand he has links with PF. MWT was calling for SGI to come in on the case.

 

[Edvis]

Saddened by the outcome of this and hope the family can find some closure. I hope the Press and public will give the respect and space needed to do so as well. I touched on an idea of NB's disappearance in the start of this case without jumping in all the rabbit holes, keep it simple. Many times when there is a body of water around if it be a pond, lake or river, it's always the first thing I look at. After spending countless hours over the years fishing in mainly rivers learning the meaning of reading water as the fishermen say rivers can snatch, move and hide just about anything no matter the speed or even the depths at times. Other factors did pop up some flags but I kept my eye on the river and just watched from a distance to avoid tripping into the rabbit holes. Again I hope the family can find some closure and left in peace to grieve in peace.

 

[Nikynoo]

<modsnip - quoted post was discussing non-approved source>
BBM, I think that scenario is most likely. I suspect once the body went over the weir, it moved back and forth as was subject to the tides going in and out. So they may have searched one place on one day and not found her, only for her body to move to the place previously searched the next day.

 

[ayrshireguy]

BBM, I think that scenario is most likely. I suspect once the body went over the weir, it moved back and forth as was subject to the tides going in and out. So they may have searched one place on one day and not found her, only for her body to move to the place previously searched the next day.

That is the most likely explanation and happens more often than not.

 

[mrjitty]

We'll never to get to the bottom of it, but somebody with connections seems to have offered him up as a media pundit . His first interview was around 5th Feb - on GBNews - where he blasts the LE operation to date - and in his first TV interview he said that he'd already been in contact with the (desperate) family and offered the family his services. (Also member @Marie Bell on the previous thread, did some digging and deduced that the introduction was facilitated by MWT. )

Would it have been possible for LP to get him to sign some kind of ' no comment' contract, as a private company volunteer? If not, what would've happened if LP had refused permission to volunteer or permission to publicise searches ? major backlash? Unwinnable situation? IDK

I think LP were in a very difficult position.... because of the family's beliefs that a drowning was incredible and PF's claims of being able to eliminate NB ever having gone in the river

Nicola Bulley latest: Top forensic scientist rubbishes 'foolish' police theory - 'She is NOT in that river'

Nicola Bulley vanished while walking her dog more than a week ago

www.gbnews.uk

'A top forensic expert has claimed he doesn’t agree with police claims that Nicola Bulley fell into the River Wyre.
Nicola’s sister has rubbished the official statement and also questioned the evidence so far.'

( re ' forensic expert' quote above, PF doesn't appear to hold any forensic qualifications)

I suspect he freelanced it because of the 'doorstep' nature of the interviews

i.e. media cameras were onsite (to get endless b-roll of 'the search) so then he just jumped in with his yellow jacket on to give a running commentary. Great stuff. And with stringers there - lots of channels can get the footage.

Police investigation was not based there. At times there did seem to be one official looking person who might have been a police liaison - but maybe to do with the search and not media

I do feel the investigation could have done a daily briefing once things got so insane. Not just a presser, but actually a spokesperson to do the round of channel appearances

 

[mrjitty]

BBM, I think that scenario is most likely. I suspect once the body went over the weir, it moved back and forth as was subject to the tides going in and out. So they may have searched one place on one day and not found her, only for her body to move to the place previously searched the next day.

Exactly! Also we know the body only floats up much later, when it is likely to snag on things on the surface.

 

[Zuleika]

We now know that it was released to public because MWT and Media were going to release far worse.

However, police should have been very limited in what they released without sharing detail and done a joint release with NB family.

Let's hope that MWT and PF never get another job in search of missings.

This is news to me ! What could MWT and the media have had to release?

 

[Firstsnow4]

I understand that she may have gone over the weir but can I just ask and correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t police divers search the river by the bench immediately after NB went missing (or at least the day after) according to this article? - Nicola Bulley search - all the key evidence and day-by-day timeline

Would she have gone over the weir so quickly to have not been found in the immediate area of the bench?

I guess I’m struggling to understand how she wasn’t found in the first few days of searching in the non tidal section of the river (before the weir). Unless of course she went in after the weir. JMO.

 

[Agatha3]

This is news to me ! What could MWT and the media have had to release?

Not heard about anything worse but I did see MWT saying it was his inquiries that led to police saying about vulnerabilities. Unless “worse” refers to the welfare check, which we know little about and don’t need to unless some relevance. Of course we don’t know what anyone else had asked the family behind the scenes as no detrimental story has appeared about Nicola or her relatives.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

The whole thing is almost so weird and ironic in some ways. She's been trending on twitter for the past few days. If it was suicide, she likely would have not wanted that. If it was an accident, I'm sure she'd have been happy to know the whole country was concerned/thinking about her during this time.

My very thoughts. I don't think people realize how many suicides happen. Often, they never hit the news ranks, or do so, so briefly. Reflecting back on other cases that ended up to be determined as suicide... it was a "mystery" that kept the whole story alive. In this case ... the mystery of being "missing"....for a very long time.

I think I keep wanting to believe this to be a true accident.... and yes, Nicola would feel blessed that so many people were thinking about her...

 

[Nikynoo]

I understand that she may have gone over the weir but can I just ask and correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t police divers search the river by the bench immediately after NB went missing (or at least the day after) according to this article? - Nicola Bulley search - all the key evidence and day-by-day timeline

Would she have gone over the weir so quickly to have not been found in the immediate area of the bench?

That is where I am stuck too.

Note - the following is based on the point of entry being located near the bench and where the harness was found.

If we take various experts reports, the body would have sunk pretty much in the area where it entered the water. But, that scenario presumes immediate drowning and the body sinking.

The only way I can make it work is if N was knocked unconscious (there was mention of rocks near the point of entry) and somehow landed on her back. As she was still breathing, she would have floated for a while, and may have made it over the weir. I seem to recall that the tide was going out at that time? I am not sure whether this is a viable scenario.

The alternative is that there is a 'deep hole' near the point of entry and she sunk into it, only to surface and make her way over the weir as the body de-composed.

If she went into the river after the weir, the river is tidal so the body will move more readily with the currents produced by the tides.