Found Deceased UK - Nicola Bulley Last Seen Walking Dog Near River - St Michaels on Wyre (Lancashire) #17

[GeorgeFormby]

Not much good can come from this awful event, but pushing the agenda for menopause, and the varied symptoms and challenges it presents, can't be a bad thing. My wife works in a large corporate, and she said it was almost a taboo subject, until recently. Testicular and prostate cancer got a lot of airtime for men, its awful that something like this has almost been ignored for women. Rest in peace, Nicola Bulley, and may your documented struggles give a voice to others.

 

[Agatha3]

If it was Sky crime man, will be veteran Martin Brunt.

Oh by the way, it wasn’t Martin Brunt who made the call at the centre of Sky news debate, it was the correspondent who has been in Garstang.

 

[ScalableHeights]

Yes. Curiously worded statement from
Him. Rather nuanced, and not what I would have expected. He doesn’t seem to be all out for ‘Fame’ IMO . What do others think ?

I think he’s given an interview with the press where he’s name dropped another case he was involved in, so I don’t think fame was furthermost from his mind, but I’m a cynical old soul. Given they do seem to have form in this area, I was wondering whether LE had requested his services (officially or unofficially), or at least approved it, like with the sonar guy. If so, it would seem it paid off.

 

[geelongcate]

I think he’s given an interview with the press where he’s name dropped another case he was involved in, so I don’t think fame was furthermost from his mind, but I’m a cynical old soul. Given they do seem to have form in this area, I was wondering whether LE had requested his services (officially or unofficially), or at least approved it, like with the sonar guy. If so, it would seem it paid off.

He mentioned the other case in his original statement on social media, so I'm not sure he's given an interview to the press at all actually, they're just reporting that first statement (still time for the interview, of course!). To be fair that first statement is pretty dignified. I think he also mentioned in the statement that the police hadn't requested his help, he decided to go along himself.

 

[GeorgeFormby]

I think he’s given an interview with the press where he’s name dropped another case he was involved in, so I don’t think fame was furthermost from his mind, but I’m a cynical old soul. Given they do seem to have form in this area, I was wondering whether LE had requested his services (officially or unofficially), or at least approved it, like with the sonar guy. If so, it would seem it paid off.

He needn't have made any comment about his 'gift', because there is no gift. The reality is, certain people have furthered there own agenda, in what is essentially a very awful situation. The Lancashire Police have been lambasted, yet others get almost lauded in the press. He found NB, because he went looking for her, and by chance, found her. <modsnip>

 

[PS8800]

I don't know if it will ever be a sure thing that she went into the water by the bench. The phone being there and the dog running between the fence and bench doesn't convince me. It's possible, but also possible she entered or fell in somewhere else. This tragedy still doesn't make sense IMO.

Theres also the makeshift steps going into the river there…

 

[mrjitty]

This morning Wootton in the Mail is all "will no one think of the children' and accusing LP of not trying to find NB

It's amazing that after days spent promoting the lie that LP was not investigating other theories, they pivot seamlessly to the idea they didn't search the river properly all along.

Even thought this exact thing has happened in many the cases as discussed here.

Seems to me the people intent on undermining confidence in police are the Mail

 

[Gavlar1985]

This morning Wootton in the Mail is all "will no one think of the children' and accusing LP of not trying to find NB

It's amazing that after days spent promoting the lie that LP was not investigating other theories, they pivot seamlessly to the idea they didn't search the river properly all along.

Even thought this exact thing has happened in many the cases as discussed here.

Seems to me the people intent on undermining confidence in police are the Mail

The police were right all along. The likes of Wootton will never admit that however.

The family seem pretty happy with the LP. Any anger should be focused towards the media (hint for Dan, the industry you are in).

 

[Furore]

I remember a specialist sonar team before consisting of a couple Bring up the bodies: the retired couple who find drowning victims | Forensic science | The Guardian

Reinforcement that finding drowning victims isn’t always quick and this fits with my own personal recall of cases in the media.

Not sure why DM etc have to make out there needs to be an equiry for how long to find. They simply cannot let NB rest in peace without a last turn or the screw/clickbait. So grim.

 

[pineapple23]

GB News this morning has been reporting from St Michaels on Wyre, nothing new - just the basics and the family statement. All of this could have been done from the studio imo. I wonder if other reporters will pop up during the day? Imo it's time to back off and give the community some space

 

[bringmeacupoft]

I remember a specialist sonar team before consisting of a couple Bring up the bodies: the retired couple who find drowning victims | Forensic science | The Guardian

Reinforcement that finding drowning victims isn’t always quick and this fits with my own personal recall of cases in the media.

Not sure why DM etc have to make out there needs to be an equiry for how long to find. They simply cannot let NB rest in peace without a last turn or the screw/clickbait. So grim.

Yes NB was a lesson for me in terms of finding drowning victims as other links have been provided. And subsequently a quick google search also suggests similar victims can take a while to find, which made me think why can’t the journalist do some research, but that doesn’t lead to quite a sensationalised headline and not as many clicks as you say.

It’s very frustrating and will continue to fuel the social media posts.

 

[sriraaacha]

I disagree. There will be an autopsy and toxicology results that may shed light on the mystery. For example, if tests reveal NB was drinking that morning, I think this could easily explain a loss of balance and accidental fall in the water.

Personally, I think NB was interrupted during her call when perhaps Willow got into something or was in trouble with another dog and NB got up abruptly and ran to Willow's aid -- leaving her phone and the leash behind. For whatever reason, NB did not make it back to the bench. Also by accident.

I don't know anything about NB to speculate about self-harm. As a mother, I think it would take some very serious issues to leave her children. MOO

If she was drinking that morning, surely it would've been just as likely to be suicide rather than an accidental death... that proves nothing imo. People leave their children/partners/families all the time for various reasons... and a reason that may be very significant to her may not be to somebody else, so I don't think that's much to go by either.

 

[ScalableHeights]

He mentioned the other case in his original statement on social media, so I'm not sure he's given an interview to the press at all actually, they're just reporting that first statement (still time for the interview, of course!). To be fair that first statement is pretty dignified. I think he also mentioned in the statement that the police hadn't requested his help, he decided to go along himself.

Yes, you’re right, the quotes weren’t from an interview, my mistake. That’s what I get for posting while still half asleep!

 

[squish]

no

Yes to that. Just for info, several papers have done menopause, peri menopause features since it was disclosed, with case histories.

Disagree. Nicola did not consent to having her medical information shared. Menopause and alcoholism are both private medical information. That alone makes it wrong. It’s not her job to have her intimate medical information exploited to publicise these health problems.

Menopause is stigmatised whether we like it or not. It’s all very well saying this has helped, but again, she didn’t consent to being used in this way.

I also disagree that it’s even helped: attributing her disappearance even in a vague way to the menopause contributes to the damaging myth that women going through the menopause are irrational and unstable, which just adds to the stigma.

The fact they even mentioned these things implies that the police will jump to conclusions about the disappearance of women who are menopausal or alcoholic (regardless of whether they actually do or not).

Even if they turn out to be correct in this case, releasing this private information seems judgemental and misogynist while pretending to be sympathetic.

 

[pineapple23]

And mainly it’s the compelling urge to think in simple terms. Yet, complexities run rampant in this case - as do possibilities. There is no such thing as a coincidence.

I believe the dots MUST connect, or the facts are not as accurate as perceived. The dots do not connect. There is definitely something more to this tragedy. I hope they figure it all out.

I've not seen much of a compelling urge to think in simple terms. On social media, what I've seen is the opposite, a compelling urge to think in conspiracy terms. Fuelled maybe with distrust in authority. Both have got worse since the pandemic imo.
To me the dots connect perfectly for either accident or suicide.

 

[Woodburnbay]

I would like to thank all at Websleuths for ensuring that this site distanced itself from the trolling and TickTocking of other parts of Social Media.

The rules and the admin intervention is necessary and whilst sometimes we may question why we can and cannot post certain content on this site, we now know that it necessary to protect not only the name and credibility of Websleuths, other site members and most importantly, the victims.

I am proud to belong to this community and hope to stay for as long as I am permitted to do so.

Thank you.

 

[GeorgeFormby]

Disagree. Nicola did not consent to having her medical information shared. Menopause and alcoholism are both private medical information. That alone makes it wrong. It’s not her job to have her intimate medical information exploited to publicise these health problems.

Menopause is stigmatised whether we like it or not. It’s all very well saying this has helped, but again, she didn’t consent to being used in this way.

I also disagree that it’s even helped: attributing her disappearance even in a vague way to the menopause contributes to the damaging myth that women going through the menopause are irrational and unstable, which just adds to the stigma.

The fact they even mentioned these things implies that the police will jump to conclusions about the disappearance of women who are menopausal or alcoholic (regardless of whether they actually do or not).

Even if they turn out to be correct in this case, releasing this private information seems judgemental and misogynist while pretending to be sympathetic.

Some women do struggle with menopause. I don't believe many people are judgemental or misogynistic towards NB, given what was said. Its a health issue, same as addiction, and it needs to be framed as such. Its nobodies fault, and those who do struggle, need support from their partners, their employers, the health services and other people who have also suffered from similar symptoms. I think the information released about NB added potential context/backdrop to the situation, which may or may not have been useful overall, but it didn't paint NB as anything other than a loving mother, partner, daughter, worker, whatever. I think any woman out there who is struggling with this sort of thing, should be able to openly discuss with her employer, her partner, her children, and not be judged, because stuff happens, to all of us, and sometimes we need to feel we can share it, and that we're not alone. Its just my opinion, but I think a lot of employers have preferred not to address the struggles that some of their employees have with the menopause, because they perceive some sort of loss of labour, sick days, whatever. Disgraceful, in my opinion.

 

[ayrshireguy]

Diving expert says Nicola Bulley found on 'perfect deposition site'

The boss of a private search team who searched the river bed said he wouldn't want to speculate as to whether the body was deposited at the site.

www.express.co.uk

The family can't be happy with PF continuing to speculate.

 

[squish]

Some women do struggle with menopause. I don't believe many people are judgemental or misogynistic towards NB, given what was said. Its a health issue, same as addiction, and it needs to be framed as such. Its nobodies fault, and those who do struggle, need support from their partners, their employers, the health services and other people who have also suffered from similar symptoms. I think the information released about NB added potential context/backdrop to the situation, which may or may not have been useful overall, but it didn't paint NB as anything other than a loving mother, partner, daughter, worker, whatever. I think any woman out there who is struggling with this sort of thing, should be able to openly discuss with her employer, her partner, her children, and not be judged, because stuff happens, to all of us, and sometimes we need to feel we can share it, and that we're not alone. Its just my opinion, but I think a lot of employers have preferred not to address the struggles that some of their employees have with the menopause, and that's not a good thing, there's no shame in it.

No one should be forced to be “open” about their private medical concerns, not everyone wants to talk and nor should they feel obligated to. Nor should they have that information be released without their consent.

ETA: if a person is outed as a homosexual without their consent, this is discriminatory behaviour. Even if the person releasing the information believes that the whole world can and should be LGBT friendly, and part of working towards that is to be open about sexuality. Even if the person releasing the information truly wants to inspire sympathy with the outed gay. This is homophobic discrimination.

It’s the same here: like it or not, women are discriminated against for ageing, for anything hormone related, for having female specific health problems. Women are portrayed as irrational for any of these things, and as having less worth for ageing. Therefore, releasing this information without her consent is misogynist discrimination, even if you think this sacrifice of her privacy and dignity makes the world a better place, and may inspire sympathy for her.

 

[Woodburnbay]

N.

My layman’s understanding is that it’s generally possible to conclusively distinguish between ante-mortem and post-mortem drowning. Distinguishing between accident , suicide, or third party involvement is trickier.
In the absence of obvious injuries, it relies heavily of an analysis of a range of factors, including looking into location, timing and the background information regarding the individual.
If there any doubt They will generally perform toxicological tests. These can be relevant in evaluation the likelihood of suicide or misadventure and in some cases might also point towards third party involvement.

I’ll admit this was one of those cases that immediately drew my attention because of the police’s early insistence that they did not suspect third party involvement and that they we’re convinced she was in the river.

The downside of such assertions more generally , is that the crime is not treated as a crime scene and evidence cannot be secured nor are the identities of those visiting the scene recorded.
Further it can prejudice the conclusion reached a coroner.
I recall a long conversation with a forensic anatomist. Far from being the detached stoic you might expect, this chap retained an intact moral compass and human compassion.
He explained the ambiguity of a genuine finding of suicide or even misadventure. I would imagine the cases he found frustrating involved rather more obvious evidence of wrongdoing.

In this Instance there is by the looks of it just eerie oddness to the whole thing .
Those hunches and observations do not suffice to make any inferences.

The particularly aggressive condemnation of Websleuths was also unusual.
I very rarely engage in public forums , and in more potentially sensitive cases , I’ve noted that some information that just will not be published,

Most importantly perhaps is that in at least in other instance I’ve received a personal message of thanks from the family of a missing individual, for my own efforts in collating relevant information.

Yes it necessarily the case that police and other. Agencies will generally only show and interest only in 1st hand information.
But that doesn’t negate the value of some of the general information found and provided by volunteers like Websleuths.

Some individuals have a knack for finding people not simply based on the internet nor reliant on elevated access to information.

Others I know are experts in analysis of of information relating to buildings , and infrastructure.

Some of the most competent specialists are to be found well outside the realm of the qualified professional community.

The outcome here was the one I thought most likely.
It’s unsettling, and Tragic.

Whilst we await the result of pathology and what I hope is a final police announcement on this case. Many will remember how jumping to a conclusion can mean that evidence is not always preserved.

The Claudia Lawrence case, a typical example. A missing person case deemed so by police in the early days of the investigation, despite evidence to the contrary. Her house not treat as a crime scene until evidence was lost for good.

In this case, would a statement such as:

"We are keeping an open mind in this investigation and conducting a thorough search of the area where NB was last seen, however due to the proximity of a river on Nicolas walk, we are also conducting a full and detailed search of the river"

And for the statement regarding her issues regarding fragility:

" We have discussed with the family why Nicola may have disappeared and are aware that leading up to the disappearance, Nicola may have been in a fragile state of mind"

The above could have been worded jointly by police and family.

Hindsight but we are supposed to be in the hands of proffesionals.