UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #11

[Marantz4250b]

If you mean this line then the prosecution didn't say she was suspected of deliberately harming them. They said:

“By this time Lucy Letby was supposed only to be working day shifts because the consultants were concerned about the correlation between her presence and unexpected deaths and life-threatening episodes on the night shifts.

Did they actually think she was deliberately harming babies at that point? Or did they just think that she was incompetent, lacking confidence, slacking, in need of more support or supervision? This is why I'd like to hear more.

Lucy Letby: what has the court heard so far in trial of Hereford nurse?

A HEREFORD nurse was allegedly interrupted by the mother of a victim as she attacked the baby in the neo-natal unit of the hospital where she worked.

www.herefordtimes.com

Regardless of what they specifically thought, they clearly suspected that she had something to do with harming patients, whether or not intentionally, so moved her to test their theory. That's unconscionable, quite honestly - it's equivalent to running a dangerous medical trial without telling people they are being experimented on!

If you suspect that someone may be harming patients then you address the potential problem - by at the very least having them chaperoned hut preferably removed from the front line - until you know what you're dealing with.

 

[notsure]

They suspected her of harming patients. The reason for the move was stated quite specifically in the prosecutions opening statement that they moved her for that precise reason - to see if the trail of destruction followed her, or words to that effect.

It's an absolutely despicably shocking way of acting.

Frankly, it's beyond belief.

 

[marynnu]

They suspected her of harming patients. The reason for the move was stated quite specifically in the prosecutions opening statement that they moved her for that precise reason - to see if the trail of destruction followed her, or words to that effect.

It's an absolutely despicably shocking way of acting.

Did they really say that??

 

[Tortoise]

I could understand concern if the shelf life was considerably longer. I can see how that’s unusual though, easy for a jar to go missing? Or would it be a supervised disposal?

It does seem only a tiny amount is needed at any time as well, that makes me think it probably wasn’t more than a few mls in the mix at most. I just can’t envision a murderer actually measuring the amount, that just seems unthinkable to me unless the aim wasn’t to kill. 2016 they weren’t even open for around half the year I think? or down two thirds in levels. Not sure how often neonates need insulin either. Even as a one off.

Where are you getting that it 'probably wasn't more than a few mls as most'?

It seems they allege baby F received almost 10mls of insulin over 17 hours in his TPN, and they say baby L received even more -

prosecution opening -
"The reading was "at the very top of the scale" the equipment could measure, the court hears.

"She had failed to kill [Child F] so gave an increased dose."
Recap: Prosecution opens trial of Lucy Letby accused of Countess of Chester Hospital baby murders

 

[Sweeper2000]

Sometimes, you can accidentally take more insulin than you need, which can result in an overdose. This can be very serious, and may lead to severe hypos. The worst cases can make you feel disorientated, cause you to have seizures and could even lead to death.

If you think you’ve taken too much insulin accidentally - or the wrong type of insulin- then make sure you closely monitor your blood sugar levels, as you could be at risk of hypos for several hours, depending on what type of insulin you have taken and the dose.

Insulin overdose (accidental)

What to do if you’ve taken too much insulin Sometimes, you can accidentally take more insulin than you need, which can result in an overdose. This can be very serious, and may lead to severe hypos. The worst cases can make you feel disorientated, cause you to have seizures and could even lead to...

www.diabetes.org.uk

I think if it’s the case that a dose of insulin that grossly exceeded the recommended dose ie less than a ml you would see more severe consequences even with treatment. I’m not sure if it would lead to permanent damage either but would assume so. do we know enough to assume it wasn’t much over what the recommended original dose was?

 

[DianaWW]

Did they really say that??

No.

 

[Marantz4250b]

Frankly, it's beyond belief.

That's how I sum up this whole case, tbh. It's literally off the scale in terms of bizareness!

 

[notsure]

That's how I sum up this whole case, tbh. It's literally off the scale in terms of bizareness!

Ikr

 

[Tortoise]

do we know enough to assume it wasn’t much over what the recommended original dose was?

what original dose?

 

[Sweeper2000]

Where are you getting that it 'probably wasn't more than a few mls as most'?

It seems they allege baby F received almost 10mls of insulin over 17 hours in his TPN, and they say baby L received even more -

prosecution opening -
"The reading was "at the very top of the scale" the equipment could measure, the court hears.

"She had failed to kill [Child F] so gave an increased dose."
Recap: Prosecution opens trial of Lucy Letby accused of Countess of Chester Hospital baby murders

Ah excuse me. I thought acording to what I read today as a one off dose would be less than one ml. it coming from the vial would be considered a very Concentrated amount. So less than one ml in 500 ml of saline Would be the therapeutic amount. I thought if you put in a dose of around 10 ml in 500 ml of dextrose solution you could expect much more severe consequences even with treatment. not sure how much was in the tpn ml wise.

 

[Tortoise]

The Trial of Lucy Letby

@LucyLetbyTrial
·
4h

The court was told that insulin on the neonatal unit was kept in a locked fridge. This photograph of the fridge has previously been shown to jurors.
https://twitter.com/LucyLetbyTrial/status/1627717204614447107/photo/1



[URL='https://twitter.com/LucyLetbyTrial']The Trial of Lucy Letby
[/URL]
@LucyLetbyTrial
·
4h

We also hear about how Lucy Letby celebrated winning £135 on the Grand National shortly after the attack allegedly took place. These WhatsApp messages she exchanged with her mother, Susan Letby, about placing bets on the horse race were shown to jurors.
https://twitter.com/LucyLetbyTrial/status/1627717208242520069/photo/1






[URL='https://twitter.com/LucyLetbyTrial']




[/URL]
The Trial of Lucy Letby

@LucyLetbyTrial
·
4h

We also learn that Lucy Letby had recently moved into a new house and was planning a housewarming party during the same shift. Other WhatsApp messages she sent to friends about the get together were shown to the court.

 

[ColourPurple]

Regardless of what they specifically thought, they clearly suspected that she had something to do with harming patients, whether or not intentionally, so moved her to test their theory. That's unconscionable, quite honestly - it's equivalent to running a dangerous medical trial without telling people they are being experimented on!

If you suspect that someone may be harming patients then you address the potential problem - by at the very least having them chaperoned hut preferably removed from the front line - until you know what you're dealing with.

The prosecution have said that when she moved to days the deaths moved to days too. AFAIK They haven't said that the reason the hospital moved her to days was to test whether the deaths would move to days too.

They may even, at that point(before she moved to days) ,thought that there may just naturally be more deaths at night time or that there was some other factor that pointed towards the night shift being the underlying link between the deaths, more so than LL.

I think without hearing more then it's just an assumption that they thought she was harming the babies and an assumption that they moved her to days to see if the deaths moved to days too.

I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just saying I don't think we know those things for a fact and that's why I'd like to hear more. And I agree that if they did believe that she was harming babies and moved her to days to test if the deaths would follow her then that's beyond shocking.

 

[Sweeper2000]

what original dose?

The amount given to correct the hypoglycaemia or blood sugar problems stated by the prosecution were used by LL as cover for the attacks.

 

[notsure]

The Trial of Lucy Letby
@LucyLetbyTrial
·
4h

The court was told that insulin on the neonatal unit was kept in a locked fridge. This photograph of the fridge has previously been shown to jurors.

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[URL='https://twitter.com/LucyLetbyTrial']The Trial of Lucy Letby
[/URL]
@LucyLetbyTrial
·
4h

We also hear about how Lucy Letby celebrated winning £135 on the Grand National shortly after the attack allegedly took place. These WhatsApp messages she exchanged with her mother, Susan Letby, about placing bets on the horse race were shown to jurors.

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[URL='https://twitter.com/LucyLetbyTrial']

[/URL]
The Trial of Lucy Letby
@LucyLetbyTrial
·
4h

We also learn that Lucy Letby had recently moved into a new house and was planning a housewarming party during the same shift. Other WhatsApp messages she sent to friends about the get together were shown to the court.

Sounds like someone preoccupied with her house move and having fun with her friends, celebrating her modest Grand National win.

 

[Tortoise]

The amount given to correct the hypoglycaemia or blood sugar problems stated by the prosecution were used by LL as cover for the attacks.

He was given dextrose to correct low blood sugar.

 

[Sweeper2000]

Where are you getting that it 'probably wasn't more than a few mls as most'?

It seems they allege baby F received almost 10mls of insulin over 17 hours in his TPN, and they say baby L received even more -

prosecution opening -
"The reading was "at the very top of the scale" the equipment could measure, the court hears.

"She had failed to kill [Child F] so gave an increased dose."
Recap: Prosecution opens trial of Lucy Letby accused of Countess of Chester Hospital baby murders

I don’t see where LL could have gotten that amount of insulin from. Would have thought they could trace it by when new stock was ordered.

 

[Tortoise]

I don’t see where LL could have gotten that amount of insulin from. Would have thought they could trace it by when new stock was ordered.

From the fridge. We haven't heard of any stock control measures.

 

[WaxLyrical]

Personally I think the number of insulin vials ordered is a bit of a red herring. We’ve already been told the unit was significantly busier than usual in 2015/16, so naturally there would be more meds, especially those with a fairly short shelf life.

In the first insulin case, I recall the twin of the poisoned baby had received insulin legitimately a couple of days prior. So it would have already been in the fridge anyway, no need to order extra. JMO.

 

[Tortoise]

It sounds like some could have gone missing in 2015 and that's why more was ordered than other years. JMO

 

[Sweeper2000]

Interesting that they say vials of insulin over the year without giving the ones which if guilty would have contained the insulin used in the crimes. Knowing it has a short shelf life one might presume the effects would be measurably different if it was past it’s best. say for instance if two Were ordered in a week wouldn’t that be a red flag? Would be useful to the prosecution I think.

Personally I think the number of insulin vials ordered is a bit of a red herring. We’ve already been told the unit was significantly busier than usual in 2015/16, so naturally there would be more meds, especially those with a fairly short shelf life.

In the first insulin case, I recall the twin of the poisoned baby had received insulin legitimately a couple of days prior. So it would have already been in the fridge anyway, no need to order extra. JMO.

I was thinking that. If that was a fresh vial it would presumably contain just under 10 ml of insulin. Are we sure a neonates dosage of insulin would be in mls not as magicarp said measured in hundredths of a ml?