UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #15

[squish]

Strange tbh looking at the drawings. All of the pics I’ve seen of her in a personal way were of a very young lady yet the court sketches portray her imo as looking way way more mature. Always wondered how an artist can portray that. I know she is 32 33 now but big difference.

But the pics from the hospital fundraising article, and from Lucy’s Facebook, are all from when she was early to mid 20’s.

There is a huge difference in the appearance of a mid 20’s and early 30’s woman. That’s normal. On top of that, guilty or innocent, she’s had seven long years of stress. It’s not surprising that she’s no longer fresh faced at 33, no make up or styling, and accused of being a serial baby killer.

 

[Marantz4250b]

Most of the pics they’ll have pulled from FB will be early to mid 20s. She 33 now.

Plus, the court artists need to draw from memory from outside the court, so I’d take their sketches with a pinch of salt.

I can only imagine what the court artists would draw me like. In my mind I’m still in my teens, for sure I wouldn’t recognise the hag they’d draw, haha.

I'm constantly told that I'm a massive child - in my mind I know I totally am!

 

[Marantz4250b]

I wonder why they bother, to be honest. The drawings are pretty rubbish, and it seems completely pointless anyway.

I'm the same. It seems completely pointless these days. This isn't 1890 where the papers were the sole source of news and things to illustrate their stories were hard to come by. We know what LL looks like and we know what most defendants in high-profile cases look like due to modern social media and news papers door-stepping them for pics.

Court artists seem totally outdated to me.

 

[Sweeper2000]

I may be very childish, but that place name amuses me!

Could be worse, she might have been going to Shitterton or Upper Dicker.

you’ve never been to assingdon I assume, right next to pishill no joke.

 

[Kemug]

I may be very childish, but that place name amuses me!

There is a place called Tumble Down Dick in Australia, also in England.

 

[Kemug]

i wonder if LL's needlestick injury was "accidental on purpose". It got her a dose of attention and sympathy.

 

[marynnu]

There is a place called Tumble Down Dick in Australia, also in England.

Surely the best street address is Titty Ho. Or possibly Sl#ts Hole Lane. Imagine telling that to a taxi driver. (Had to remove the u as it got censored!!).

 

[e145]

The fact that medical staff felt they had to stop a colleagues return for 11 months in fear of harm to the babies is such a powerful thought

Yes. when they finally got management to take notice and remove her from the unit, doctors were determined LL stay off the unit. Would have been frustrating trying to ensure she stayed away.

 

[Phoenix Lazarus]

Strange tbh looking at the drawings. All of the pics I’ve seen of her in a personal way were of a very young lady yet the court sketches portray her imo as looking way way more mature. Always wondered how an artist can portray that. I know she is 32 33 now but big difference.

If she was convicted, I think they'd release her mugshot to contrast with the photos of her looking normal and cheerful.

 

[e145]

The parents certainly need and deserve answers.

So do we all. Any one of us could have helpless, dependent, very sick children or grandchildren in hospital.

We need to rely on senior management to react swiftly and effectively when allegations such as these are coming from highly experienced medical staff.

Even if the doctors were ultimately wrong, (nobody is infallible), it is still much better to have gone along earlier with their repeated exhortations to involve the police.

Consultants used to be extremely revered within a hospital setting.

This situation suggests almost a perverse delight in now not taking the consultants’ concerns seriously, and being ‘happy’ to take the consequences of going head to head with what a consultant wanted done.

What is at the root of this defiance?

Good question.
Obviously over the years things have changed. Makes for a much better working environment to have consultants that are approachable, better communicators etc, rather than aloof
And elite. But to have a situation like this with various consultants getting together seemingly with no voice to hospital and nursing management. What a ridiculous situation.

 

[notsure]

I've been thinking a lot lately that if someone swears that they are innocent, and if there is no absolute proof of their guilt, maybe nobody but that person will ever know the real truth. Because we have no way of seeing into another person's mind. If only they could create some kind of lie detector that really works.

 

[katydid23]

I've been thinking a lot lately that if someone swears that they are innocent, and if there is no absolute proof of their guilt, maybe nobody but that person will ever know the real truth. Because we have no way of seeing into another person's mind. If only they could create some kind of lie detector that really works.

Sometimes other people close to the situation can allegedly know the real truth, but it is not always enough proof in court.

I think some of the doctors and maybe even some nurses may have allegedly figured it out. The ones who walked into the darkened rooms, allegedly seeing her standing motionless looking at a baby on the verge of total collapse---that moment was probably a powerful moment, for each individual.

 

[Kemug]

Yes. when they finally got management to take notice and remove her from the unit, doctors were determined LL stay off the unit. Would have been frustrating trying to ensure she stayed away.

Makes the managers look even worse, IMO

 

[Imogenia]

Good question.
Obviously over the years things have changed. Makes for a much better working environment to have consultants that are approachable, better communicators etc, rather than aloof
And elite. But to have a situation like this with various consultants getting together seemingly with no voice to hospital and nursing management. What a ridiculous situation.

Yes, I agree that in situations where consultants were seen as being too elite and aloof could be problematic for working relationships.

However, at least it was clear who was in ultimate charge of the patients admitted under a named consultant.

Obviously, a single consultant could be patently wrong if they continually voiced suspicion about a nurse deliberately harming his or her patients. This still needs investigation of course.

A group of consultants, as you say, getting together and finding a pattern of apparent or alleged deliberate harm is definitely something that is more likely to have a basis in fact, and the need for investigation is obvious.

The concerns of such a group of highly qualified professionals being steadfastly ignored by hospital and nursing management is indeed a ridiculous situation.

 

[Sweeper2000]

im not sure about dr evans testimony about cpr not causing injuries. I worked on a icu for two months in a clerical role and witnessed a elderly lady have her ribs broken in cpr. thought it was common knowledge that it’s possible. I’m not sure of differences between a quite elderly person and a neonate though. Was very vigorous cpr. Can’t say but no idea on how strong or flexible a neonates bones are. thinking if a rib is more flexible than otherwise it’s movement in cpr might damage the liver as it’s quite big ad close to the ribs.

 

[Imogenia]

i wonder if LL's needlestick injury was "accidental on purpose". It got her a dose of attention and sympathy.

Freud maintained that the unconscious mind is a powerful thing, and that sometimes ‘accidents’ are done with a purpose.

I find accidental injuries (and slips of the tongue) interesting, especially in situations of high drama, or when feelings are running high. These may have a kind of truth that can be picked up by others.

I am certainly interested in needlestick injuries such as this one, because of the situation in which it occurred.

Sometimes the person accidentally pricks their own finger, but sometimes a colleague accidentally pricks the person concerned (in the crowded endeavour of a resuscitation, maybe when going for disposal in the sharps bin).

 

[Jazmania]

im not sure about dr evans testimony about cpr not causing injuries. I worked on a icu for two months in a clerical role and witnessed a elderly lady have her ribs broken in cpr. thought it was common knowledge that it’s possible. I’m not sure of differences between a quite elderly person and a neonate though. Was very vigorous cpr. Can’t say but no idea on how strong or flexible a neonates bones are. thinking if a rib is more flexible than otherwise it’s movement in cpr might damage the liver as it’s quite big ad close to the ribs.

I don't think Dr Evans said CPR can't cause any injuries, I think it is well known that it can break ribs. However the point is that the liver is no where near where the doctors would be administering CPR, and neither neonatal expert had ever heard of such an injury taking place. We'll have to see where Myers has gotten this idea from, I assume he'll elaborate in the defence case.

 

[marynnu]

im not sure about dr evans testimony about cpr not causing injuries. I worked on a icu for two months in a clerical role and witnessed a elderly lady have her ribs broken in cpr. thought it was common knowledge that it’s possible. I’m not sure of differences between a quite elderly person and a neonate though. Was very vigorous cpr. Can’t say but no idea on how strong or flexible a neonates bones are. thinking if a rib is more flexible than otherwise it’s movement in cpr might damage the liver as it’s quite big ad close to the ribs.

It's completely different in neonates. I did my fair share of CPR plus lots of updating & assessments, and have never even heard of this as a possibility. It's quite a gentle procedure as the sternum is relatively soft and pliable. And no broken ribs!

 

[marynnu]

I don't think Dr Evans said CPR can't cause any injuries, I think it is well known that it can break ribs. However the point is that the liver is no where near where the doctors would be administering CPR, and neither neonatal expert had ever heard of such an injury taking place. We'll have to see where Myers has gotten this idea from, I assume he'll elaborate in the defence case.

Just to say, neonatal CPR should never result in broken ribs, in my view.

 

[Jazmania]

Just to say, neonatal CPR should never result in broken ribs, in my view.

Fair enough, I was picturing adult CPR