UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #16

[Parker Knoll]

Sorry I should of clarified a bit more. The case is expected to be completely over by then so we have to cram in these next weeks after the Easter holidays - end of prosecution case, full defence case, closing speeches and judges summing up. Obviously cannot say how long the jury will deliberate for.

 

[Sweeper2000]

Just had a curious thought. Would she still have been suspected if she was the only nurse present for all the events ie on the unit but had no direct dealings with any of the babs. She would still be the only common factor but just no proximity.

and another what is it about the specific case that she mentioned AE as a possible cause but not the others? Shame it isn’t mentioned exactly what case it is.

 

[katydid23]

Just had a curious thought. Would she still have been suspected if she was the only nurse present for all the events ie on the unit but had no direct dealings with any of the babs. She would still be the only common factor but just no proximity.

No, they were talking specifically about her having DIRECT dealings with the babies, right before the collapses. In every case [ and I looked specifically and noted it on the recent post where I added the data to the gestational list]----in each case there was direct contact between LL and the baby right before the incident.

In babies A, B and C she was the designated nurse and was the only nurse present, allegedly, during those 3 collapses. And that is what initially made some people suspicious.

But after that there were cases where she was not designated nurse. But the babies would collapse while their designated nurse left for break, and LL , allegedly, had been caring for child, signing for treatments or feeding them, etc.

And in the final 3 she didn't even try to hide it or mask it , it seems. JMO

and another what is it about the specific case that she mentioned AE as a possible cause but not the others? Shame it isn’t mentioned exactly what case it is.

 

[Tortoise]

No, they were talking specifically about her having DIRECT dealings with the babies, right before the collapses. In every case [ and I looked specifically and noted it on the recent post where I added the data to the gestational list]----in each case there was direct contact between LL and the baby right before the incident.

In babies A, B and C she was the designated nurse and was the only nurse present, allegedly, during those 3 collapses. And that is what initially made some people suspicious.

But after that there were cases where she was not designated nurse. But the babies would collapse while their designated nurse left for break, and LL , allegedly, had been caring for child, signing for treatments or feeding them, etc.

And in the final 3 she didn't even try to hide it or mask it , it seems. JMO

she wasn't designated nurse for B, C or D.

The designated nurses for these babies were

Unnamed nurse - child B
Sophie Ellis - child C
Caroline Oakley - child D

 

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[Supernovae]

If the defense has 4 to 6 weeks left to put up their case, we may hear fro a lot of witnesses/experts including the recall of several we already saw.

---I expect them to bring up a medical expert to say that CPR can and has caused liver injuries.

---I expect them to bring up an expert in 'bias confirmation' to tell us why the doctors were incorrect with their collective suspicions.

---I expect they will go through each case, in order, and either call back previous witnesses to delve further and/or to call in new ones. They may poke holes in crown's case that says LL was present in each case

---I expect they will bring in an expert on statistical analysis and will attempt to show that the crown's chart is faulty and biased against LL when it says she is the only one that could be the perp

---I expect they will try and get management in the witness box to say why they wanted her back on the unit and why they thought the doctors were wrong to suspect her.

---I expect they will try and bring in some coworkers who may sympathise with LL and say she was a great nurse and they didn't see her acting odd or suspicious in any way.

---They may bring in her parents or other family to say she never exhibited any signs of such a monstrous behaviour.

Any other ideas?

Of course, the prosecution will have the witness list and will be ready to cross examine all of the experts and there should be some fireworks.

I feel like there's been some particularly pointed cross examination in the alleged nasogastric air/fluid injection cases so I suspect they have a gastroenterologist whether paediatric or otherwise. For the intravenous air embolism I think the defence will be that it's at least a theoretical possibility but there's no robust, empirically backed evidence for it.

 

[katydid23]

she wasn't designated nurse for B, C or D.

The designated nurses for these babies were

Unnamed nurse - child B
Sophie Ellis - child C
Caroline Oakley - child D

Oh, you are right. But she was the helping to care for them at the time of the alleged collapse, I believe.

child B:
At the time of Child B's death, Letby was the "designated nurse" for two babies in other rooms of the neonatal unit, indicating she should have had no involvement in Child B's care.
Yet it was her signature found on the blood gas record shortly before Child B began to deteriorate.

Mr Johnson says both Child A and B were born "prematurely but in pretty good condition".
"No one expected them to face grave problems yet both suffered unusual symptoms within a short time of each other which, in an interview, Lucy Letby said were similar," he says.
Lucy Letby trial - latest: Nurse 'adamant' she's done nothing to harm any of the babies in the case as defence begins

Child C:
The court has heard Child C was being looked after by a nurse less qualified than Lucy Letby and had been given the responsibility as Child C was stable.
That nurse had left to go to the nurses station in the hospital. While there, she heard Child C's monitor sound an alarm.
Upon her return, Letby was already in the room, standing next to Child C's cot.
It was the third baby to have suffered a serious deterioration in the matter of a few days, the court heard.

Letby was the only nurse who had been on duty for all three collapse incidents for Child A, B and C.

Recap: Prosecution opens trial of Lucy Letby accused of Countess of Chester Hospital baby murders

 

[Sillybilly]

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[marynnu]

I need help yet again please! I could swear there was a discussion a few days ago about a significant amount of paperwork being found in LL's home, but blowed if I can find it. Can anybody help? Thanks!

 

[Sillybilly]

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[Becci]

I need help yet again please! I could swear there was a discussion a few days ago about a significant amount of paperwork being found in LL's home, but blowed if I can find it. Can anybody help? Thanks!

Hi i found this but from oct

Note saying 'I am evil, I did this' found in home of Lucy Letby

The nurse is accused of murdering seven babies and attempting to murder another 10 at the Countess of Chester Hospital

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

 

[Becky53]

I need help yet again please! I could swear there was a discussion a few days ago about a significant amount of paperwork being found in LL's home, but blowed if I can find it. Can anybody help? Thanks!

Mr Johnson said: "I have already told you that the police found a large quantity of hospital paperwork relating to many of the children whose deaths and collapses you are now considering.


Well we've only heard of three so far. How strange! Maybe they will tell all when they discuss the police search in court.


'Interesting items' were found during a search of her house on Westbourne Road in Chester, including paperwork relating to many of the children who died or suffered collapses and Post-it notes...

Yes, that does make it sound like there could be things other than paperwork and post it notes! I suppose the paper towel with notes on could be one.

I'm wondering if there is more that hasn't been reported

'Interesting items' were found during a search of her house on Westbourne Road in Chester, including paperwork relating to many of the children who died or suffered collapses and Post-it notes with closely written words which included the names of some of her colleagues, Mr Johnson said.

'I AM EVIL. I DID THIS': Post-It notes written by nurse Lucy Letby

On day four of her trial at Manchester Crown Court the jury was told that messages written by Lucy Letby, 32, were found at her home after her arrest including one that said: 'I killed them on purpose.'

www.dailymail.co.uk

In a search of Letby's home, police found a handover sheet from that shift.

"Like others, it's a document which shouldn't have left the hospital," Mr Johnson says.

He adds: "She had a lot of these documents at home."

Lucy Letby trial - latest: Nurse 'adamant' she's done nothing to harm any of the babies in the case as defence begins

Latest updates on day four of the Lucy Letby trial, with the prosecution showing the court handwritten "confessions" from the nurse in which she allegedly admitted she was "evil", and the defence saying the hospital was "well out of its depth". Letby denies all charges.

news.sky.com

Mr Johnson said: "I have already told you that the police found a large quantity of hospital paperwork relating to many of the children whose deaths and collapses you are now considering.

Lucy Letby's 'written note' in full including 'I am evil' remark

The Post-it note was found in the former nurse's home after she became a suspect in multiple baby murders

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

These?

 

[Kemug]

I agree. If she's guilty then I'm completely dumbfounded as to what drove her; she was young, pretty, sociable, hard working, clearly careful with money and sensible and had a presumably eligible young doctor totally besotted with her.
It's a complete mystery to me - all if guilty, obvs!
Edit; I said "young" doctor. He may not have been and I suspect he was actually quite a bit older.

He may well be somewhat older. But there is quite a large age gap between LL's parents, which may mean that she sees that as normal.

 

[marynnu]

These?

Yes, thank you. It was this quote mainly: "Mr.Johnson said: "I have already told you that the police found a large quantity of hospital paperwork relating to many of the children whose deaths and collapses you are now considering."
Much appreciated. xx

 

[esther43]

No, they were talking specifically about her having DIRECT dealings with the babies, right before the collapses. In every case [ and I looked specifically and noted it on the recent post where I added the data to the gestational list]----in each case there was direct contact between LL and the baby right before the incident.

In babies A, B and C she was the designated nurse and was the only nurse present, allegedly, during those 3 collapses. And that is what initially made some people suspicious.

But after that there were cases where she was not designated nurse. But the babies would collapse while their designated nurse left for break, and LL , allegedly, had been caring for child, signing for treatments or feeding them, etc.

And in the final 3 she didn't even try to hide it or mask it , it seems. JMO

The prosecution have done a good job it seems of demonstrating where the 'opportunity' was.
Its been really interesting to learn about the role that Dr Choc took on in relation to LL.
I was watching a documentary on Kristen Gilbert last night and noticed she shared a special relationship with the security guard whilst working in the ICU.

 

[Marantz4250b]

He may well be somewhat older. But there is quite a large age gap between LL's parents, which may mean that she sees that as normal.

Yes, that's a point I've made myself. I was just correcting myself in the use of the word "young". If I had to guess I'd say he was at least 10 years older than her.

 

[Phoenix Lazarus]

If she doesn't take the stand in her own defense, it could count against her. I have a feeling she won't, though.

 

[Marantz4250b]

If she doesn't take the stand in her own defense, it could count against her. I have a feeling she won't, though.

It won't count against her. You cannot be compelled to give evidence in your own trial and the jury is told not to place any weight on a defandant choosing not to do so.

 

[esther43]

It won't count against her. You cannot be compelled to give evidence in your own trial and the jury is told not to place any weight on a defandant choosing not to.

I think it will under UK law. Adverse inference, reverse burden etc

 

[Marantz4250b]

I think it will under UK law. Adverse inference, reverse burden etc

Can you explain that?