UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #17

[Sweeper2000]

I don't see that as a confession in any way, personally. The only slight thing for me is that there is nothing like 'I didn't do anything to hurt you'.

Would agree with that. I’m not seeing much to point int the way of saying “I couldn’t do anything to hurt you“ emphasis on the couldn’t. I don’t know if it’s in a similar trail of thought but she does say “ I couldn’t help you” or something like that. Am I remembering correctly? If that’s there she’s acknowledged the suffering, not taken responsibility for it, expressed desire to help but ultimately felt like she failed in the attempt. “We tried our best but it wasn’t good enough“.

im wondering if she in any way refers to the collapses. Suggesting she does or doesn’t know about them. The deaths stand out in a big way and are memorable but the collapses are one thing I think only a perpetrator would know about.

 

[Jazmania]

One thing I do notice is that she never once expresses allot of worry about police involvement and that’s bolstered my point about a lack of fear or concern. It suggests she is cooperating with them and being open. She finds it “upsetting“ to me that looks not worried at all.

I don’t think these notes are helping the prosecutions case at this point in time. If anything it makes the confession note have less punching power especially with it being prsented before the new ones, they obviously cherry picked and made that out to be more than it was. Did not add the context or these other notes until way later.

one thing it might do though is enable us to figure out exactly when that confession note was written. Very late in proceedings Probably.

I think these notes were written before she knew about police involvement, or when police had only just gotten involved. she wouldn't have been cooperating with them, as the first time they would have interviewed her would have been after her arrest and her house was searched surely? She was mostly dealing with her grievance at work, and so that is the main cause of her stress clearly. The police involvement had only just begun, and she might not even have been aware of it when some of the notes were written.

I don't really understand how you can see these notes as not helping the prosecution. They show a severely mentally disturbed person. Now I'm sure a reasonable person in her position would be experiencing acute anxiety. Her life as she knows it could be over, she's lost her career, her friends, the person she loves etc. However even so, these notes seem seriously disturbed and weird even taking into account those factors. I think it will make the jury think - can it really be another coincidence that the only person who was present for each of these unexplained collapses and deaths just happens to also show signs of a personality/mood/ mental disorder?

 

[Tortoise]

Would agree with that. I’m not seeing much to point int the way of saying “I couldn’t do anything to hurt you“ emphasis on the couldn’t. I don’t know if it’s in a similar trail of thought but she does say “ I couldn’t help you” or something like that. Am I remembering correctly? If that’s there she’s acknowledged the suffering, not taken responsibility for it, expressed desire to help but ultimately felt like she failed in the attempt. “We tried our best but it wasn’t good enough“.

im wondering if she in any way refers to the collapses. Suggesting she does or doesn’t know about them. The deaths stand out in a big way and are memorable but the collapses are one thing I think only a perpetrator would know about.

Yes she was aware of the collapses because she put the handover sheets for those babies in the bags under her bed, but none of the 200+ other handover sheets for babies she isn't charged with were put in those bags.

JMO

 

[Marantz4250b]

Yes she was aware of the collapses because she put the handover sheets for those babies in the bags under her bed, but none of the 200+ other handover sheets for babies she isn't charged with were put in those bags.

JMO

If she knew the police and hospital were investigating, though, given that she had all these sheets would it not to reasonable for her to put them all together if she'd been told which patients the investigation was being directed towards? I think I might do that if I were innocent.

 

[Sweeper2000]

That would be entirely consistent with her demeanour during the year she is on trial for, and with the demeanour of someone who would be bold enough to carry out the alleged acts.

JMO

You think she’s got a reduced fear response?

agree, that demeanour is very consistent across the year Quite what that means is an open question to me.

I might think that she isn’t worried as she has seen it as a potential on the horizon and prepared and remained in good faith that there wasn’t anything to find. At the point of writing she must have known she was under the most intense scrutiny possible. So she might have just seen the polices involvement as just another step in the process.

one thing I can’t say is that I have seen anything to make me think she is hiding anything. Most of the evidence says the opposite.

 

[Sweeper2000]

Yes she was aware of the collapses because she put the handover sheets for those babies in the bags under her bed, but none of the 200+ other handover sheets for babies she isn't charged with were put in those bags.

JMO

Do you remember hearing about notes on the collapses in regards to her diary?

I am starting to think she did indeed go in a fact finding mission which included researching the events which she thought were under investigation.

 

[DinerMite]

Getting confused with the bags.

Ibiza Bag (Found under her bed)
Contains 4x Handover sheets for dates of Baby O - Q

Morrisons Bag (Found in bedroom)
Contains 31 Handover Sheets
Paper Towel Note (Baby M)
Blood Gas Report (Baby M)

Handbag (Found next to mirror in bedroom)
Contains 3 handwritten notes

Is this correct? If so, is it possible that she stored the ibiza contents together just because they happened at the same time and she'd already packed out her Morrisons Bag with previous notes rather than purposefully collate them together?

Confuses me tbh

 

[Sweeper2000]

I think these notes were written before she knew about police involvement, or when police had only just gotten involved. she wouldn't have been cooperating with them, as the first time they would have interviewed her would have been after her arrest and her house was searched surely? She was mostly dealing with her grievance at work, and so that is the main cause of her stress clearly. The police involvement had only just begun, and she might not even have been aware of it when some of the notes were written.

I don't really understand how you can see these notes as not helping the prosecution. They show a severely mentally disturbed person. Now I'm sure a reasonable person in her position would be experiencing acute anxiety. Her life as she knows it could be over, she's lost her career, her friends, the person she loves etc. However even so, these notes seem seriously disturbed and weird even taking into account those factors. I think it will make the jury think - can it really be another coincidence that the only person who was present for each of these unexplained collapses and deaths just happens to also show signs of a personality/mood/ mental disorder?

It’s definitely strange and weird To us. But there isn’t much there that says mentally incoherent considering that one is literally just doodling.

doesn’t show signs of communicating with anything that isn’t real. No grossly out there statements ie “I am an angel sent by god”. no signs of paranoia,no signs of a loss of function etc
its coherent enough which mentally Ill people are not imo
I think people are adding things to something that was written without any direction or real purpose.

 

[Marantz4250b]

Do you remember hearing about notes on the collapses in regards to her diary?

I am starting to think she did indeed go in a fact finding mission which included researching the events which she thought were under investigation.

I think that's quite likely. And that applies whether guilty or not. If it were me I definitely would, especially if I were innocent.

 

[Marantz4250b]

Getting confused with the bags.

Ibiza Bag (Found under her bed)
Contains 4x Handover sheets for dates of Baby O - Q

Morrisons Bag (Found in bedroom)
Contains 31 Handover Sheets
Paper Towel Note (Baby M)
Blood Gas Report (Baby M)

Handbag (Found next to mirror in bedroom)
Contains 3 handwritten notes

Is this correct? If so, is it possible that she stored the ibiza contents together just because they happened at the same time and she'd already packed out her Morrisons Bag with previous notes rather than purposefully collate them together?

Confuses me tbh

Did the ones in the Moz bag all relate to babies in the charges?

 

[DinerMite]

I think that's quite likely. And that applies whether guilty or not. If it were me I definitely would, especially if I were innocent.

Didn't she note the alleged days of attack though which is something she wouldn't know if innocent surely?

 

[Tortoise]

Did the ones in the Moz bag all relate to babies in the charges?

Yes, and the Ibiza bag.

 

[WaxLyrical]

Was it confirmed that all the handover sheets unrelated to the babies in the trial were found somewhere other than the Morrisons/Ibiza bags? I know 4 sheets were found in the empty shredder box at her parents. Where we’re the other 200 odd?

 

[Tortoise]

If she knew the police and hospital were investigating, though, given that she had all these sheets would it not to reasonable for her to put them all together if she'd been told which patients the investigation was being directed towards? I think I might do that if I were innocent.

Who would have told her, or the hospital for that matter, which of the cases Dr Evans deemed suspicious, of the 35 cases he looked at? There weren't any babies' handover sheets in the bags unrelated to the charges.

 

[Marantz4250b]

Didn't she note the alleged days of attack though which is something she wouldn't know if innocent surely?

Shed know collapses, though. And, again, we don't knownif these were written after the fact. If someone were letting her know which incidents were being investigated then she may have made the notes as part of her investigation.

Also, if she'd raised a grievance she may have been told, or simply remembered, what incidents had occurred which caused her to be taken off nursing duties and put on admin.

 

[Tortoise]

Was it confirmed that all the handover sheets unrelated to the babies in the trial were found somewhere other than the Morrisons/Ibiza bags? I know 4 sheets were found in the empty shredder box at her parents. Where we’re the other 200 odd?

yes.

Benjamin Myers KC, for Letby's defence, says a total of 257 handover sheets were recovered in the police search. Of those, 21 related to babies in the indictment.
Four of them were in the 'Ibiza bag' and 17 were in the Morrisons bag.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Monday, April 17

Ah, excuse me I've just noticed this report

Also in the Morrisons bag were a number of nursing handover neonatal unit notes - 31 in total.
Most of the notes refer to babies which did not feature in the indictment, and included on 17 of the notes there are multiple references to 13 of the 17 babies in the indictment period.

 

[Marantz4250b]

Yes, and the Ibiza bag.

Which suggests that they may have been separated by her as part of her trying to identify what was being investigated?

 

[Sundial]

Do you remember hearing about notes on the collapses in regards to her diary?

I am starting to think she did indeed go in a fact finding mission which included researching the events which she thought were under investigation.

The thing that I find concerning; is even “if” she did indeed go on a fact finding mission, it is hugely concerning a healthcare professional would take it upon themselves to print all these documents out of confidential patient information (if that’s what she indeed did) and have them in her possession she she had.

Instead of stepping back and letting the investigation take place; “if” she’s printed all this information out- (whether innocent or guilty) she’s actually made the whole thing 10x worse imo.

So even if she stashed them away from each shift or printed them off, either way (even if not guilty) it actually looks really really bad.

If she’s printed them out/regarding her own investigation, it could be desperation (which I wouldn’t rule out given what looks like in her erratic notes), but she still shouldn’t be doing this. It still makes her appear extremely unprofessional, can’t step back/doesn’t like being given an instruction (as her senior has already indicated in evidence keep going against her and the family room of grieving parents etc).

Carrying out her own investigation (if that’s what she was actually doing let’s say), with all these patients medical information at her home is really very disturbing.
JMO

 

[Marantz4250b]

Who would have told her, or the hospital for that matter, which of the cases Dr Evans deemed suspicious, of the 35 cases he looked at? There weren't any babies' handover sheets in the bags unrelated to the charges.

Doc Choc?

Also, if she's the type of person who remembers this stuff or keeps her own records, which seems highly likely, she could probably identify which cases may be being looked into.

The fact that it appears to be ONLY babies directly related to the charges tends to suggest that this is what she's done and that they weren't kept separate at the time of the incidents hence, doesn't suggest they were trophies.

 

[Sweeper2000]

Was it confirmed that all the handover sheets unrelated to the babies in the trial were found somewhere other than the Morrisons/Ibiza bags? I know 4 sheets were found in the empty shredder box at her parents. Where we’re the other 200 odd?

Mostly in a black bag in he garage.


im vepry curious to find out why she kep these handover sheets. Im thinking she probably did take every one home as they probably predate the charges.

im also wondering if dr choc informed her of how long people had thought she was suspect for. That gives her a date range.
im wondering if the notes in her diary we’re actually written well after the date itself. Different coloured pen suggests so maybe. When she was trying to recall the memories.