UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #17

[Marantz4250b]

I think she wasn't behaving in a normal way and Defence decided it might be prejudicial.

My opinion only

The defence doesn't get to choose though. If she wasn't behaving normally then the prosecution can easily argue that the jury have a right to see that.

 

[JerseyGirl]

Lucy Letby trial: Nurse seen at cot of baby who collapsed, jury told

Lucy Letby could not recall when or why she went into the nursery, her murder trial hears.

www.bbc.com

 

[Marantz4250b]

Surely it's tedious for the jury ..to watch LL would have kept their attention

Going back to the previous comments about demeanor being able to be seen and assessed if the actual videos were played; surely having all this acted out by two members of the prosecution could be seen as prejudicial as it would be argued that whatever demeanor they exhibited would likely be different to that of LL?

 

[Kemug]

Absolutely no, re taking the stand. It's a fundamental part of the accused's right to silence. There's a clear explanation here which also covers what inferences can and cannot be drawn/concluded by the prosecution/jury from such a decision.

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Thanks Anxala.

 

[Marantz4250b]

I'd imagine that the interviews in a case like this would be incredibly slow viewing. The interviewers would need to be poring over long, complicated notes, filled with technical content. The questions would likely be asked hesitantly and non-fluently. There would have to be a lot of groundwork in the form of identifying the baby - its name, its birth circumstances and condition - some discussion of the parent(s) to allow LL to recall the event, etc. It doesn't surprise me at all that summaries were agreed by both sides. I wouldn't even like to guess how many hours it would take to get to the salient 'did you do this/that' part for each act she was suspected of; and a great deal would have to be bleeped out for redaction purposes.

They could be edited, though. And, if the point of playing the filmed interviews is to show the demeanor of the defendant then it's surely reasonable that it shows the demeanor of the investigators as well? The jury should be able to judge the actions of both.

I think of the loads of interviews of US police interviewing people and lots of them come across as "interrogations" rather than interviews. It is relevant to judge the actions of both parties, surely?

 

[Tortoise]

She told officers: “It’s very difficult, when you see dead babies it’s hard to get that image out of your head.”

The detective asked: “Why would going into nursery one help?”

Letby replied: “Because I would see a different baby in there, and see a different scenario to the scenario I had at the time when he died.”

The detective said: “How would it be a different scenario?”

Letby said: “It’s a different baby, it’s different staff, it’s a different night.

“Because I think when you are going to the same incubator space and there is a different baby there you know you let the one you lost go. Until you go into that space, you see that baby until another baby goes in there.”

[...]

The detective said: “You went on to attack (Child C)?”

Letby said: “No I haven’t. No.”

The detective said: “Lucy, did you murder (Child C)?”

“No,” the defendant said.

The detective asked: “Can you give any explanation as to how (Child C) died?”

Letby replied: “No.”

Lucy Letby ‘upset and frustrated’ minutes before baby collapsed

NURSE Lucy Letby agreed she was “upset and frustrated” six minutes before the collapse of a baby boy she allegedly murdered, her trial has heard.

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[marynnu]

"It’s very difficult, when you see dead babies it’s hard to get that image out of your head.”

I

Is it though? If this is how she felt, it would have been wise to have taken JJK's advice and taken a break. IMO.

 

[DianaWW]

‘Letby went on to explain when working at Liverpool Women’s Hospital she had “lost a baby one day and a few hours later was given another dying baby just by the same cot space”.’

From the Chester Standard article linked above, where she’s talking about how she’s ‘dealt with it before’.

 

[marynnu]

dbm duplicate

 

[Anxala]

Thanks Anxala.

No probs.

Re the interviews, I'm wondering was her lawyer present? I'd be surprised, considering the charges, if she didn't have legal representation there. In which case, they'd (BM and LL) have had time together in advance of the interviews as to how best to approach the questions she was going to be asked. The summaries (to date, and I know they're very brief and not terribly helpful) suggest that she did have representation present as she comes across imo as pretty focused, direct and aware of the pitfalls. Just my impression, of course.

And as @Marie Bell very wisely said above, we have no idea what we're not hearing from the interviews.

 

[Tortoise]

No probs.

Re the interviews, I'm wondering was her lawyer present? I'd be surprised, considering the charges, if she didn't have legal representation there. In which case, they'd (BM and LL) have had time together in advance of the interviews as to how best to approach the questions she was asked. The summaries (to date, and I know they're very brief and not terribly helpful) suggest that she did have representation present as she comes across imo as focused, direct and aware of the pitfalls of incriminating herself.

It would have been a solicitor, not her barrister, if she requested one.

 

[Tortoise]

‘Letby went on to explain when working at Liverpool Women’s Hospital she had “lost a baby one day and a few hours later was given another dying baby just by the same cot space”.’

From the Chester Standard article linked above, where she’s talking about how she’s ‘dealt with it before’.

I find it hard to believe really, that she would have been far more junior, not long qualified really, and to be given another dying baby right after losing one.

 

[marynnu]

‘Letby went on to explain when working at Liverpool Women’s Hospital she had “lost a baby one day and a few hours later was given another dying baby just by the same cot space”.’

From the Chester Standard article linked above, where she’s talking about how she’s ‘dealt with it before’.

That seems rather brutal for a young nurse doing her neonatal course.

 

[Anxala]

It would have been a solicitor, not her barrister, if she requested one.

Right. But still very likely that she'd have had legal representation at these interviews.

 

[ShireChe]

Right. But still very likely that she'd have had legal representation at these interviews.

The only way she wouldnt have representation would be if she turned it down herself. If she wasn't offered representation then none of this would be admissible at all

 

[marynnu]

I find it hard to believe really, that she would have been far more junior, not long qualified really, and to be given another dying baby right after losing one.
[/QUOTE

My first thought was "Surely not!". I wonder if this was checked?

 

[DianaWW]

I agree. Could it have been a trigger? If it actually happened of course…JMO.

 

[ColourPurple]

[redacted] + cons -> Police naming me (obviously no evidence and would have been spoken to but still upsetting)

Quoting my own post as it's just occurred to me that the notes were found at LL's first arrest in July 2018 so the line in the first blue note about police naming her can't be correct as she hadn't been arrested or named when the note was written!

I think the arrow between cons and police may mean "went to" or "going to" and the redacted name may be Doc Choc which would then make the sentence

Doc Choc and the consultants went to the police naming me (obviously no evidence and would have been spoken to but still upsetting)

Then the references to disciplining in the second blue note may be about Doc Choc and the consultants (sounds like a band name lol) , maybe LL wanted them disciplined for giving her name to police?

Mediation. Says disciplinary but [redacted] said can't discipline them it's voluntary + that will never change. So be prepared it may never happen.

^ That sounds very feasible. And would certainly account for LL's reaction to DrChoc in court. I'm trying not to feel sorry for LL (still on fence although have to say it's a bit of a shaky fence at this stage) but his transition from very close, caring friend (and more) to her accuser must have been absolutely devastating for her.

Yes, thank you, that's what her note (as per @ColourPurple 's transcription) suggests.

Thinking about it, we don't know for sure if the blurred out name before "cons" was definitely Doc Choc. It could be one of the other anonymous doctors or nurses.

I wonder if it might actually be the anonymous female doctor, who may have given LL's name to the police. The one who went on the tea break with doc choc, told LL not to talk about Baby P not leaving there alive, said LL was excited about doing a memory box, and who then helped get the remaining triplet transfered out of the hospital as she felt LL was a danger to him! (AKA Dr Tea AKA Dr B in Mail podcasts)

 

[Marantz4250b]

She told officers: “It’s very difficult, when you see dead babies it’s hard to get that image out of your head.”

The detective asked: “Why would going into nursery one help?”

Letby replied: “Because I would see a different baby in there, and see a different scenario to the scenario I had at the time when he died.”

The detective said: “How would it be a different scenario?”

Letby said: “It’s a different baby, it’s different staff, it’s a different night.

“Because I think when you are going to the same incubator space and there is a different baby there you know you let the one you lost go. Until you go into that space, you see that baby until another baby goes in there.”

[...]

The detective said: “You went on to attack (Child C)?”

Letby said: “No I haven’t. No.”

The detective said: “Lucy, did you murder (Child C)?”

“No,” the defendant said.

The detective asked: “Can you give any explanation as to how (Child C) died?”

Letby replied: “No.”

Lucy Letby ‘upset and frustrated’ minutes before baby collapsed

NURSE Lucy Letby agreed she was “upset and frustrated” six minutes before the collapse of a baby boy she allegedly murdered, her trial has heard.

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

I have to say that I find those answers perfectly reasonable.

 

[Marantz4250b]

I

Is it though? If this is how she felt, it would have been wise to have taken JJK's advice and taken a break. IMO.

People are different though. I can understand why she wouldn't want to take a break. If you're innocent and these deaths affect you a lot then I can totally understand how the prospect of sitting around your big house on your own for a couple of days might be by far the worse option than going to work.

Not saying she did think that, and MOO, but I can see the issue here.