UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #18

[JosieJo]

Very true and a valid, interesting point.

I honest can't see why the management would be called for this trial...its LLs trial not the hospital..and there is nothing they can add really.
I agree that certainly some management should face investigation..and possibly have internally. But separately I think

 

[JosieJo]

I think it would be more helpful to just have one chart that lists everyone working on the unit, doctors etc included. Including only a subsection of staff makes it looks like it’s cherry picking, when they probably don’t need to. Like you said, it might also show other patterns. JMO.

I'm sure they said from court yesterday there was also a Dr's chart presented but I suppose the press were just interested in publishing the one with LL on it...its so damning when you look at the chart and see all those X s in LL row

 

[WaxLyrical]

I'm sure they said from court yesterday there was also a Dr's chart presented but I suppose the press were just interested in publishing the one with LL on it...its so damning when you look at the chart and see all those X s in LL row

It’s funny because we’ve known about it since the first week, and the jury will have seen this chart a number of times. But it hits differently when you see it in black and white.

 

[esther43]

I honest can't see why the management would be called for this trial...its LLs trial not the hospital..and there is nothing they can add really.
I agree that certainly some management should face investigation..and possibly have internally. But separately I think

That's a fair shout I guess. But I'm still angry ha ha.

 

[katydid23]

It’s funny because we’ve known about it since the first week, and the jury will have seen this chart a number of times. But it hits differently when you see it in black and white.

I really want to hear Meyers case against this staffing chart.

From what he said earlier, he contends the investigators cherry picked only the instances where LL was present, to investigate.

Dr Evans he has said that was not true, and he knew nothing about LL when he was given the long list of cases to investigate. And he cleared some.

Will Meyers be bringing forth a list of collapses in which LL was not present and try to say they were unexplained?

It seems it would be hard for him to claim that any of them were unexplained as opposed to being victims of suboptimal care or some hidden medical cause though.

 

[Tortoise]

So if Dr Choc was present for 7, then he must’ve been at the hospital for longer than we thought?

Edit: I realise now the chart only lists nurses.

The seven events he would have been present for were

L,M,N,O,P (two days),Q

He testified in all of these cases.

 

[Tortoise]

This was Dr Gibbs evidence that LL was involved in all of them.
https://twitter.com/MrDanDonoghue
Dan O'Donoghue

@MrDanDonoghue
·
Mar 22

He said he had become 'increasingly concerned at the accumulating number of unusual, unexpected and inexplicable collapses that had been happening on the neonatal unit and that staff nurse Letby had been involved in all of them'

 

[Tortoise]

I'm sure they said from court yesterday there was also a Dr's chart presented but I suppose the press were just interested in publishing the one with LL on it...its so damning when you look at the chart and see all those X s in LL row

A second sheet shows which junior doctors and consultants were present for those events.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Thursday, April 27

 

[Phoenix Lazarus]

At 7.09 on the podcast from the Daily Mail released an hour ago, it is revealed the word "ba****ds" was written in capital letters on one of her notes.

 

[Tortoise]

At 7.09 on the podcast from the Daily Mail released an hour ago, it is revealed the word "ba****ds" was written in capital letters on one of her notes.

This was the podcast they released on Monday.

The word was written at the bottom right of this note


Lucy Letby: The handwritten messages found in her bedroom

 

[ShireChe]

I really want to hear Meyers case against this staffing chart.

From what he said earlier, he contends the investigators cherry picked only the instances where LL was present, to investigate.

Dr Evans he has said that was not true, and he knew nothing about LL when he was given the long list of cases to investigate. And he cleared some.

Will Meyers be bringing forth a list of collapses in which LL was not present and try to say they were unexplained?

It seems it would be hard for him to claim that any of them were unexplained as opposed to being victims of suboptimal care or some hidden medical cause though.

Obviously LL is present/involved at all the cases listed. If she wasn't, then it wouldn't be part of this trial.

The key part is if these are the ones Dr Evans or the other experts picked out and they match 100% with the list then that is pretty damning.

Do we know if there there were other cases they discounted and in those discounted cases did they do the same level of Investigation to see if there were similar findings of air in the bowel or similar findings on x-ray etc. Did they discount other collapses as not suspicious just because LL wasn't there.

If only those cases were genuinely picked 100% blind and there were no other suspicious/unexplained collapses at all, I'm not sure I understand why it's taken such a long trial and why they would have needed to arrest her twice without charge and take so long to bring to trial

 

[Phoenix Lazarus]

This was the podcast they released on Monday.

I took it from YouTube, where it was put an hour ago.

 

[May72031]

That's what I think too but I see LL's defenders claiming there are other unexplained collapses in which LL was not there. I guess we will see very soon if that is true or not.

But were they any other 'unexplained collapses' accompanied by the sudden appearance/disappearance of skin blotches, x-rays that revealed evidence of 'surplus air' in the body, etc.? I am guessing 'no'.

 

[Anxala]

That's possible that she detached herself from what happened on the unit and from the deaths etc. But if so, that might be indicative of someone who could do so easily if necessary and that could be revealing. JMO

I don't know, Katy, but I think after 3 arrests, 30 police interviews over 3yrs, plus 3 yrs on remand = 6 years of having nothing to focus on other than what she's been accused of, and now this trial, I'd probably be pretty numb and drained and devoid of feeling for anyone other than myself too.

I think you'd have to be detatched to retain and hold on to some semblance of sanity.

I don't think her alleged detatchment is significant in an innocent or guilty sense, just a basic survival sense.

 

[WaxLyrical]

Obviously LL is present/involved at all the cases listed. If she wasn't, then it wouldn't be part of this trial.

The key part is if these are the ones Dr Evans or the other experts picked out and they match 100% with the list then that is pretty damning.

Do we know if there there were other cases they discounted and in those discounted cases did they do the same level of Investigation to see if there were similar findings of air in the bowel or similar findings on x-ray etc. Did they discount other collapses as not suspicious just because LL wasn't there.

If only those cases were genuinely picked 100% blind and there were no other suspicious/unexplained collapses at all, I'm not sure I understand why it's taken such a long trial and why they would have needed to arrest her twice without charge and take so long to bring to trial

I hope tortoise will keep us right, but I recall Dr Evans said he’d been given 30 something cases to look at, he whittled it down to the suspicious ones, and they are all involved in this trial.

 

[Dotta]

This was the podcast they released on Monday.

The word was written at the bottom right of this note

View attachment 417835
Lucy Letby: The handwritten messages found in her bedroom

Is there anything you DON'T know about this case?

 

[Lincoln34]

That's what I think too but I see LL's defenders claiming there are other unexplained collapses in which LL was not there. I guess we will see very soon if that is true or not.

IMO Public opinion in Chester, where I live, is very mixed. I think people find it hard to believe that babies may have been killed deliberately and it’s so close to home .

The consensus seems to be - ‘Can’t believe it but either way her life is ruined now. They better have got it right’

Edited to add IMO

 

[Tortoise]

Did they discount other collapses as not suspicious just because LL wasn't there.

No, Dr Evans testified he didn't know the names of the staff involved.

If only those cases were genuinely picked 100% blind and there were no other suspicious/unexplained collapses at all, I'm not sure I understand why it's taken such a long trial and why they would have needed to arrest her twice without charge and take so long to bring to trial

The trial has been this long because barring holidays and illnesses, it's taken that long to present all the evidence for each baby from birth to the event/s in question, and multiple experts evidence. It's more than presenting a chart with a title saying suspicious events and who was on shift, they have to prove they were suspicious events. The police had to conduct hundreds of interviews and many experts were consulted to prepare for trial. 17 incidents requires an awful lot of investigation work and evidence gathering. JMO

 

[Tortoise]

I hope tortoise will keep us right, but I recall Dr Evans said he’d been given 30 something cases to look at, he whittled it down to the suspicious ones, and they are all involved in this trial.

He investigated 33 cases (incidents) not including the two insulin cases.

Dr Evans said in 14 of the 17 cases he had completed his preliminary reports by November 2017, and was unaware of any medical staff member being a suspect.
He became aware of the name 'Lucy Letby' for the first time upon her arrest in July 2018 when he read her name in the press.
Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Tuesday, October 25

 

[ShireChe]

I hope tortoise will keep us right, but I recall Dr Evans said he’d been given 30 something cases to look at, he whittled it down to the suspicious ones, and they are all involved in this trial.

Were all 30 cases ones involving LL? And did any of the cases he decided were not suspicious have elements of collapses and involvement from LL. Why and how were those 30 specific cases chosen?

This is in no way a defence of LL. Im just trying to get a broader picture of what this chart is actually showing and if it is as clear cut as it potentially seems