UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #19

[Jazmania]

I'm not sure how well the crying at looking at photos of her house will go down with the jury to be honest. Impossible to tell as we're not watching, only reading text - but imagine being a parent who lost a baby in an extremely traumatic way. And then being told your baby had unexplained injuries similar to that of a car accident. And that there is no medical reason for why your baby died. And you're sat there opposite the person accused of this crime, and they're crying looking at photos of their bedroom.
Now I think it is understandable that LL would be upset at this, as the life she knew it and had hoped for is definitely over. But I just don't think the jury will sympathise particularly. I'm not sure how helpful this is for her tbh.

 

[Marantz4250b]

Regarding the Facebook searches ...searching many social friends and colleagues amongst baby's parents in the trial doesn't really alter anything
In order to mitigate the parents searches there would need to many parents not involved in the case ...

Parents of these children amongst many social contacts and staff is just as damning

There were, as far as I recall. Some from Liverpool Women's Hospital too, I think.

 

[JosieJo]

There were, as far as I recall. Some from Liverpool Women's Hospital too, I think.

I've seen one mentioned I think

 

[Marantz4250b]

Exactly. But still she breached this boundary, not just a bit but excessively. Given her apptitude for promotion and her desire to role model best practice, it begs the question as to why she let herself down in this way, similarly with the handover notes really... Imo

Not being any sort of expert, it just seems like she has some sort of hoarding/collecting behavior she isn't in control of, to me.

 

[ColourPurple]

2:04pm

Mr Myers asks about further Facebook searches carried out by Lucy Letby.
Asked why she would carry a search for one of her nursing colleagues she regularly worked with, Letby replies it was someone who would have been on her mind.

2:09pm

The total number of Facebook searches in October 2015 is 173.
One of the days, November 5, 2015, there are nine searches in nine minutes. Most are social and two are the names of mothers of children from Liverpool Women's Hospital neonatal unit.
Letby says it would not be unusual for her to make several searches in a few minutes on somebody on Facebook. "That would be normal for me".
The total number of searches in November 2015 is 277. Five of those related to parents of children in the indictment.
The total number of searches in December 2015 is 211. In January 2016, it's 199, in February it is 178.
Mr Myers: "Generally speaking, would your pattern of searches be consistent across the month?"
Letby: "Yes."

2:12pm

The number of Facebook searches in May 2016 is 164 and it's 233 for June 2016. For the latter month, none feature any searches for the names of parents of babies in the indictment.
Letby denies there is any 'sinister' reason why she should be looking up the names of parents of babies.
Letby adds she was "always" on her phone in her spare time.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Tuesday, May 2 - defence begins

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[ColourPurple]

2:17pm

Letby is asked about staying at Ash House, hospital accommodation for staff. She confirms she stayed there, moving out 'around June 2015'.
For a time, Letby says she moved to a flat 'in town' in 2015, before moving back into Ash House 'towards the end of 2015'.
A page from Letby's 2015 diary is shown. A note, '*Ash House*', is on June 1, 2015. It is clarified that Letby had moved back to Ash House in June 2015, having moved out for 'about six months'.
The judge says this is 'not a memory test'.

2:20pm

A page from Letby's 2016 diary is shown from April. It has the note 'out of Ash H'. Letby says that is the time she moved from Ash House to her house in Westbourne Road.
Messages between Letby and a colleague on April 8 mention her 'unpacking! Stuff everywhere lol'.
Letby says she was "very preoccupied" with sorting the house out that weekend.

2:22pm

A photo of the front of Letby's house and her car is shown to the court.
Presented with the photo, Letby says it is "quite difficult" to look at them.
Photos of Letby's back garden from Westbourne Road are shown to the court.
A photo of Letby's garage is shown to the court.
"All that stuff in there, is that yours?"
Letby says some of it is, some were tools that belonged to her dad.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Tuesday, May 2 - defence begins

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[ColourPurple]

2:29pm

The inside of Letby's house is now shown to the court, featuring the living room, stairs, dining room, kitchen, and a noticeboard is displayed.
It contained 'photographs, various letters that were important to me'.
A note 'No. 1 godmother awarded to Lucy Letby!' is made by one of Lucy Letby's godchildren. Another note from another godchild is shown.
Also on the noticeboard are photos of family members and a mock-up front page of The Telegraph featuring her parents, the headline 'Hay Festival Exclusive'.
Also on the board is a photo of Lucy Letby, as a band 5 nurse, with two nursing colleagues.
On the landing area stairway, there is a photo of Lucy Letby and her two cousins, and a photo of her two godchildren.
A photo of Letby's bedroom is shown to the court, with the bedspread 'Sweet Dreams' displayed.
Cuddly toys are on the bed, of Winnie-the-Pooh and other characters.
Letby becomes tearful as a photo is shown of the scene after police had investigated the bedroom.

2:32pm

A photo of the downstairs living area is shown to the court, with a cupboard shown containing a number of files and paper documents, plus DVDs.
The records of Letby's two cats at the time, 'Tigger and Smudge', are also documented. Letby becomes emotional at recalling this.
Letby says she kept everything from her training, and were in folders.

2:34pm

An image of Letby's 2016 diary is shown, with the sheets of paper kept in the diary. The green post-it note, 'Not good enough', was in there, as well as a vaccination record for one of the two cats, Smudge.
Another photo of Letby's bedroom is shown. It shows two handbags. One was pink and 'daily' used for work, and the other was smaller, black and for 'casual, social' use.


2:36pm

Letby says prior to her arrest, she had been on a family holiday with her parents.
The handbags contained three notes which have previously been shown to the court.
This was one of the notes, which Letby says contain random thoughts which were "sporadically written".

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Tuesday, May 2 - defence begins

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[esther43]

Not being any sort of expert, it just seems like she has some sort of hoarding/collecting behavior she isn't in control of, to me.

But all the things that she seems obsessive and compulsive relate directly to this case. Maybe when they release the other photos we will see boxes all over the place but I doubt this as from what we have seen, she looks well organized, had 'keep' folders, noticeboards, a shredder etc.

 

[JamesMcGillEsquire]

Exactly. But still she breached this boundary, not just a bit but excessively. Given her apptitude for promotion and her desire to role model best practice, it begs the question as to why she let herself down in this way, similarly with the handover notes really... Imo

The pressure of an incredibly demanded occupation, plus the fact she is human - would be my guess.

JMO

 

[ColourPurple]

2:42pm

Letby says she would struggle to decipher some of the notes.
One of the notes says 'Lovewasallweneeded'. Letby says they refer to Craig David lyrics from a 2016 song, and were just on her mind.
She refers to a doctor colleague as 'my best friend' in the note. Letby says that was the case at the time.
Letby says the notes have 'no sort of structure...' and they are repetitive.
The name 'Kathryn de Beger' refers to a woman in occupational health.

2:44pm

Much of the note, Letby tells the court, is written for the anniversary of the death of one of the babies.
Re: 'We tried our best but it wasn't enough' - Letby says the note was written as 'we' - the 'team'. She says it was not written for anyone in particular, and was written after she was being blamed for baby deaths.
Re: 'I can't do it any more' - Letby is asked what she means by 'it', she means 'life'.

2:45pm

Re: 'HELP' - Letby says, tearfully: "I wanted someone to help me at that point, but nobody could help me."


2:47pm

This note is now shown to the court.

Letby says, for her care given to babies: "I only ever did my best"

Asked what it felt like to be accused of what she did, Letby replies: "I don't think you can really put it into words, it was devastating and it changed my whole life."

2:48pm

Asked about a swear word on the note, which Letby says she does not normally swear, she says it was directed at Dr Ravi Jayaram and Dr Stephen Breary, "because of the things they have been saying about me".


2:52pm

A further note is shown to the court, featuring a lot of names.
One of the names is 'Whiskey', the name of Letby's former pet dog.
Mr Myers: "Why are you writing these names over and over again?"
Letby: "Because they are important people to me and they were on my mind. At the time I had a limited support network."
The names include colleagues and the names of Letby's cats.
Mr Myers is asked why there are different coloured inks on the note. Letby replies the note would have been added to at different times.
Letby is asked about the word 'LOVE', which is in a rectangle. Letby replies "it was for the love of the people that were important to me"

2:58pm

Letby says she has "always kept a diary", and would document her work shifts, activities, appointments, "everything really".
Pages from Letby's 2016 diary are shown to the court. One is from February 29-March 6.
For March, there is the first name of a patient. Letby says she would note the name for own records. 'LD' would mean long day, 'N', would mean night shift.
The shifts include the names of a patient of 'something significant', or something which she had learned, from that day.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Tuesday, May 2 - defence begins

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[Marantz4250b]

But all the things that she seems obsessive and compulsive relate directly to this case. Maybe when they release the other photos we will see boxes all over the place but I doubt this as from what we have seen, she looks well organized, had 'keep' folders, noticeboards, a shredder etc.

Fair point but much of it relates to work and I think it's work that this compulsive behavior revolves around.

In fact does it all actually relate to this case? There were 257 hand-over sheets only a small number of them relate directly to the charges at hand. Yes, they were from roughly that one year period, but most of them don't actually directly relate to the case at all, when you think about it.

 

[JamesMcGillEsquire]

It appears Ms. Letby has now referred to her dog as a person.

It's just getting weirder.

JMO

 

[DianaWW]

I do wonder, if without the handover sheets and facebook searches as evidence, would this ever have made it to trial?
In the nicest possible way I hope so, if that makes sense.

The handover sheets weren’t discovered until after her arrest. Not sure they’d have had a warrant to check her phone and internet records before then either. So they had enough to arrest her before they found any of that. And I think it’s the medical evidence that has played the biggest part in getting the case to trial. The rest is just another piece of the puzzle I think. Those things don’t imply guilt as everyone has pointed out, however along with everything else, they are part of the bigger picture. JMO.

 

[Dotta]

Exactly.
What Notsure is suggesting is for journalists to report subjectively. This, of course, is a massive no-no.
JMO

You are our Guardian of Court Etiquette

 

[Marantz4250b]

It appears Ms. Letby has now referred to her dog as a person.

It's just getting weirder.

JMO

I noticed that but, again, this is trial reporting by tweet so we may not be getting the full context.

Even if she did then it's not particularly unusual if she was asked in relation to the names of actual people as well. It's just the way people speak, it's not always perfectly phrased.

 

[Legal]

I've not used facebook for years. Is this much searching normal for an average user?

Seems defence are using the same arguments for facebook as they did with the handover notes - she had handover notes for nearly all the babies in the indictment but also lots of others, so this negates their importance.

She said Doc Choc was just a friend so how will she explain the "He knew I loved him" comment?

 

[esther43]

The pressure of an incredibly demanded occupation, plus the fact she is human - would be my guess.

JMO

All the more reason to relieve yourself of the pressure of work by separating your home life from your work life, as is professional. Imo.

 

[Blondiexoxo]

Asked whether she had ever wanted to hurt a baby, Letby replies: "No that’s completely against what being a nurse is, I only wanted to help and to care for them"

She ‘only ever wanted to help and to care for them’ she didn’t follow this up with ‘and that’s what I did’ or even say ‘I only ever cared for them’ but that she wanted to. Wanting to do something and doing it are two completely different things IMO. If guilty, maybe she wanted to care for them, but sinister urges took over which meant she didn’t, if guilty. MOO

 

[ColourPurple]

3:03pm

Notes of social engagements are shown to the court - including a meet-up at the Stretton Fox pub with colleagues, salsa in Buckley, a meal at Zizzis and a concert to see Ellie Goulding.
The notes are in different inks. Letby says blue ink would usually be used for work-related commitments.
Mr Myers, making reference to Letby's house move: "How big a thing was it to have this house?"
Letby: "Oh it was huge, a big milestone."

3:05pm

Asked why the name of a particular baby is featured on one of the days in the diary, Letby replies: "Something has stood out for that baby...it was for my own reflection."

3:10pm

A diary entry for April 12, 2016 is for meeting friends at her new home, including one of her work colleagues.
Shifts for April 15-17 were changed from 'N' to 'LD'.
Further social engagements are noted for Tatton Park, Las Iguanas, salsa in Mold.
Notes on May 2016 show, in blue ink on an 'LD' shift, the first names of two babies not on the indictment.
Letby says those names were written as something notable had happened. A note on May 14 also has the name of a student nurse, which Letby says was 'documented' as it was important at work when mentoring took place.
.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Tuesday, May 2 - defence begins

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[Marantz4250b]

I've not used facebook for years. Is this much searching normal for an average user?

Seems defence are using the same arguments for facebook as they did with the handover notes - she had handover notes for nearly all the babies in the indictment but also lots of others, so this negates their importance.

She said Doc Choc was just a friend so how will she explain the "He knew I loved him" comment?

Depends what an "average user" who was female and 25 in 2015/16 was like, I guess.

Anecdotally, I think it's a lot but perhaps not a lot more than many people might think.